Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2005 10:12 pm Posts: 1749 Location: Portland, OR
Tuolumne wrote:
Harmless wrote:
And PJ always had detractors for all the raging they did. Most of the detractors said that you can't possibly maintain such an anti-corporate stance consistently as a gigantic rock band. They were right, in many ways.
This is a valid point. And I think they've smartened up and realized (or more accurately, ED realized) that you can't blanket all corporations into just BAD and not be a hypocrite doing it. In fact, if you partner with them the right way, more than ever can be done. I think they're learning as they go along and trying to do what's right. It gets complicated, more success or opportunities to success puts difficult choices in front of them: A) "sell out" and build up the savings account, pay for your loyal employees, and also pay for the local skate park or unresearched illness or defense fund of wrongly embattled friend or B)"keep it real" and do nothing and even worse have to lay people off b/c you're 'under budget' or some other awful business reason? It's easy in this realm to lose your ideals and lose your soul, but it's also possible to do unimaginably more than anyone can dream of if they navigate this the right way. We're watching and sometimes they screw up, but I think they're overall handling it fine save for a few really stupid things EV said over a decade ago.
There's a difference between not automatically hating corporations and playing a corporate schmooze party. I almost expect the next step in their progression will be playing private birthday parties for hedge fund managers, like many do now.
There's no way this band plays this festival even 5 years ago.
Tuolumne wrote:
digster wrote:
cutuphalfdead wrote:
It just seems to go against the grain of creating art, especially if it's going to be art with a social conscience, which Pearl Jam has always strived to be. And Pearl Jam has, at least through the first decade of their career, had always put forth this image of a band of the common people. That's why they always tried to manage the costs of their tickets, allocate the best seats for fan club members, allow bootlegging, yada yada yada. I'm not saying they've thrown all of that out the window, but I suspect that a lot of the reasons why they were so against corporate sponsorships and advertisements at the venues they played was because it's hard to talk about common problems behind a Microsoft sign, which is pretty much what they're doing now.
I'm not angry about it, I'm not calling for their heads, I'm not burning my albums. I'm just saying a really cool band has become pretty lame.
The responses to this kind of thing are interesting to me because they make it seem like Pearl Jam is just like every other band in this regard. And I think that's really hard to argue. Rightly or wrongly, this anti-corporate attitude was and is a BIG part of PJ's identity. I'm not saying it's the sole part of their identity, I'm not saying their minds aren't allowed to change, I'm not really saying anything. But they were the ones that opened the door.
I think a few things should be clarified. When did they say they were "anti-corporate"? Maybe they did, but when? They were anti-Ticketmaster, anti-BP. Yes, they are corporations, but is that all of them?
Would they have done this in 1995? No. And EV was just being extremely foolish back then. But maybe they should have been more clear about their positions.
I think they weren't because they had not figured out their positions yet. My belief is that they are about "corporate responsibility" and that they are not simply "anti-corporate". Corporations can do awful things, and they can also do good things. Bad corporations can do good, and good corporations can mess up and be horrible. Shit's complicated.
When did they say they were anti-corporate? About a billion times between 1995 and 2004. Many of the lyrics of Binaural and Riot Act, and to a lesser extent Pearl Jam, are based on their opinions on this subject.
You also have this picture:
Take a look at the flag behind them.
Then there was the Ticketmaster boycott, the pirate radio station and the support of Ralph Nader in 2000.
That was the band I admired.
dimejinky99 wrote:
Funny how so many people swallowed PJs ideals yet never took to any of the bands they championed. Ideals are cheaper than CDs I guess.
I admired them because they were one of only a few bands out there speaking up about corporate rule, bullshit wars and were into a lot of the same bands I was into. I was stoked when they had Sonic Youth, Sleater-Kinney, the Buzzcocks and Bad Religion as opening acts.
Also: just because your favorite artist loves an obscure band you shouldn't feel obligated to love them too. I love Nirvana, but I wouldn't willingly listen to some of Kurt Cobain's favorite artists if you paid me.
Pearl Jam shows: Champaign 4/23/2003 Chicago 6/18/2003 St. Louis 10/05/2004 Portland 7/20/2006 Gorge 7/22/2006 Ridgefield 9/26/2009 Philadelphia 10/31/2009
Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2005 10:12 pm Posts: 1749 Location: Portland, OR
dimejinky99 wrote:
Its pretty simple. We all bought the beliefs and viewpoints this band put to us cos we were younger and needed to be and were happy to be inspired and given a direction by our favorite singer. A lot of it just never carried over to the other stuff they tried to push on us all. Mudhoney? Vinyl only? Ishmael? No thanks.
We'll agree to disagree on this one. All three of those points are awesome.
Pearl Jam shows: Champaign 4/23/2003 Chicago 6/18/2003 St. Louis 10/05/2004 Portland 7/20/2006 Gorge 7/22/2006 Ridgefield 9/26/2009 Philadelphia 10/31/2009
Its pretty simple. We all bought the beliefs and viewpoints this band put to us cos we were younger and needed to be and were happy to be inspired and given a direction by our favorite singer. A lot of it just never carried over to the other stuff they tried to push on us all. Mudhoney? Vinyl only? Ishmael? No thanks.
We'll agree to disagree on this one. All three of those points are awesome.
even if i disagree with the whole " indie -corporation" stuff, yeah matt, those 3 things are indeed awesome.
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 3:08 am Posts: 22978 Gender: Male
FTR, the context was a bit more on the Miller Lite comment. Something along the lines of tasting like piss water... and then drinking a bud light. Mentioning that was more of beer snob jab.
I suppose a number of you can take solace in the fact that Pearl Jam's deal with Oracle is non exclusive, and allows them to perform at independent software companies corporate gigs as well. They just can't perform for the other big box software companies.
FTR, the context was a bit more on the Miller Lite comment. Something along the lines of tasting like piss water... and then drinking a bud light. Mentioning that was more of beer snob jab.
I suppose a number of you can take solace in the fact that Pearl Jam's deal with Oracle is non exclusive, and allows them to perform at independent software companies corporate gigs as well. They just can't perform for the other big box software companies.
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 3:08 am Posts: 22978 Gender: Male
VinylGuy wrote:
Skitch Patterson wrote:
FTR, the context was a bit more on the Miller Lite comment. Something along the lines of tasting like piss water... and then drinking a bud light. Mentioning that was more of beer snob jab.
I suppose a number of you can take solace in the fact that Pearl Jam's deal with Oracle is non exclusive, and allows them to perform at independent software companies corporate gigs as well. They just can't perform for the other big box software companies.
I wonder if the $2395 price tag on this event comes with a champagne breakfast for everyone.
Easily the best comment in this thread. By far.
I'm not concerned about the corporation aspect but I am worried about how bloody lame that gig is going to be. I mean soul destroyingly bad. A bunch of software developers (no offence I'm sure you're nice people) drinking Bud lights singing along to Jeremy. Wow. Unless they only play b-sides this is just tragic.
"Wouldn't it be cool if they changed the chorus to "Don't code in Java, not fit to"?"
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