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The best...anti-war song
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Author:  The Argonaut [ Mon Oct 02, 2006 8:07 pm ]
Post subject: 
Favorite song off Binaural v. Close to Favorite Song off PJ.
I go with WWS. Insignificance was against war in general, WWS is that within the context of today's conflicts. Better song IMO.
Author:  Too Big a Man Too Say [ Mon Oct 02, 2006 10:39 pm ]
Post subject: 
I probably like both songs equally, but this subject i had to go with WWS because when i think of insignificance i dont associate with it being a anti-war song, while i do with WWS
Author:  I Got Memories [ Mon Oct 02, 2006 11:48 pm ]
Post subject: 
pb21 wrote:
stip wrote:
pb21 wrote:
I voted for Insignificance because I feel it outshines WWS on all counts. The music and the lyrics are more clever than WWS, plus I am a little tired of WWS at the moment, not too say I dont like it though.

Also I think (I may be wrong here) that Insignificance was a song about the people who work at Boeing in or around Seattle, making killing equipment as the means of earning money to live. The bit
'Bombs,... dropping down,...
Please forgive... our hometown...
In our insignificance'
relates to the workers making the equipment used to kill. It is still an anti war song but coming from a slightly different angle.




ohhh, that's good. Can anyone confirm this?


I found where I heard it on 5H concert cronogy

Quote:
02/16/03 - Entertainment Centre: Adelaide, Australia
attendance: 10,097
support act: Johnny Marr and The Healers
soundcheck: Oceans (partial), In Hiding, Help Help, Gimme Some Truth (x2), Nothingman, Smile, Bushleaguer
set: Love Boat Captain, Corduroy, Save You, Hail Hail, Help Help, Even Flow, I Am Mine, Better Man, You Are, Green Disease/Not For You, Thumbing My Way, Given to Fly, Elderly Woman, Insignificance, Go
enc 1: Bushleaguer, Do the Evolution, Last Kiss, Black, Crazy Mary, State of Love and Trust
enc 2: singalong, Soon Forget, Yellow Ledbetter, Rockin' in the Free World
notes: Unusual 'LBC' opener debuts before a capacity Adelaide crowd leading to a stellar 'Corduroy' that gets the crowd going. After 'Hail Hail,' Ed expresses his emotions regarding the 100,000-people turnout at the anti-war protest just hours earlier in Adelaide's Victoria Square: "What a great day! I think this is one of the greatest weekends in my lifetime ... in our lifetimes. This weekend the biggest protest since the Vietnam war went down. You've got maybe 8 million people in over 600 countries coming out to protest the war. That's something to be toasted to and thankful for ... you should be very proud." 'Help Help' makes its debut, similar to the album version but no Stone backing vocals. Again, Ed lets the crowd sing part of the first verse of "Better Man.' 'Not For You' is amazing ("small my table, seats all of us; got so crowded but you we trust"). During the middle part, Mike rolls on the floor and stays there, jamming, joined by Ed soon after! 'GTF' lyrically references a female ("she" and "her") rather than a male persona. Ed sings the first verse of 'Elderly Woman' twice, commenting "Did I fuck it up?" 'Insignificance' is introduced as a song about a small town "near where we come from" with a plant where a lot of people work making planes (Boeing).The Bush mask is again worn by Ed during 'Bushleaguer' and a a blasting 'Do The Evolution' follow. The band turns around for 'Last Kiss,' playing for "... those less privileged people, those people in the back." Ed's wine bottle is passed around the front rows during 'Crazy Mary' and, after constant requests all night, 'State' appears for the first time this tour. Ed returns alone to attempt a crowd singalong of John Lennon's 'Give Peace a Chance.' Ed is wearing a sleeveless shirt with a photo of Bush and John Howard on it. Ed introduces "Luke the Uke" to Adelaide, then struggles with 'Soon Forget' again, but provides Townshend-style windmills and jumps. 'Yellow Ledbetter' sees the house lights on, and, to everyone's amazement, the band jumps straight into 'Rockin In The Free World' (thanks to Stone), the crowd going nuts, Ed jumping on speaker stacks, Mike running around the back and Matt tossing out drumsticks. Very up show with Ed dancing and Stone lively and laughing.


edit: the more I think the more I think that Insignificance is about someone who works in the factory.

'The swallowed seeds of arrogance...
Breeding in the thoughts of ten...
Thousand fools that fight irrelevance.'

The thoughts of ten and the thousand fools are the many that make the planes beliving they are superior than the people killed by them

'The full moon is dead skin...
The one down here's wearing thin...
So set up... the ten pins.
As the human tide rolls in...
Like a ball that's spinning. '

Someone who works in the factory is bowling and enjoying the 'american dream' having a fun night while at the same time the planes and their bombs are being unleashed.

'Feel like resonance of distance...
In the blood...the iron lies
It's instilled... to wanna live. '

There are other lines but I cant think how these would relate in quite the same way.

yep I was there, it's about making something that could end up killing people
Author:  Bacchus Dukakis [ Tue Oct 03, 2006 12:49 am ]
Post subject: 
I was out of the PJ loop from '95-2000. I just didn't care because I had fairly bad taste in music. End of 2000, I picked up the San Sebastian bootleg, and it was the version of Insignificance more than anything else that got me into the band again. Right before they play it Ed goes "This song rules. It's called Insignificance." It sure does, Ed. This is one of my favorite rockers by PJ, up there with Go and SoLaT.

Worldwide Suicide is way too catchy. It's almost formulaic by Pearl Jam standards. Every time I listen to the new album, another song emerges that I like more than WWS. Very easy vote for me.
Author:  ChristcanIFly [ Tue Oct 03, 2006 1:30 am ]
Post subject: 
I absolutely LOVE both of these songs. Insignificance was one of the first songs that really drew me into Binaural, mainly that huge riff right before the chorus and the powerful lyrics. The imagery evoked in it is pretty amazing, but it seems pretty distant and it's hard to relate to.

WWS, like many have said, is so much more immediate. The lyrics make the same kind of heavy-handed attack on war (although a bit more direct than Insignificance) but are also a lot more personal. I love Insignificance, like I said, but there are a lot of things about WWS that harken back to the early-PJ days. The verses are extremely melodic, Ed's snarl is back in the catchy-as-fuck chorus and the song has more of a build-up and climax.

Lyrically, I think Insignificance is written in a more refined way, but I just simply prefer WWS. The opening line is killer and epic, but immediately reverts to a personal level and bounces back and forth between the two points of view throughout the song without being too jarring.

Last, but not least, I want to thanks Stip, I LOVE these song-vs-song comparisons.
Author:  triggercut [ Tue Oct 03, 2006 4:27 am ]
Post subject: 
Yeah, I don't get how you could even begin to compare these songs, especially since Insignificance isn't even an anti war song per se. Regardless Insignificance is a much better song than WWS, but again, two completely different sounding songs.
Author:  whoby#s [ Tue Oct 03, 2006 4:29 am ]
Post subject: 
world wide suicide is too forced and poppish for me. insigificance is a very true song and the lyrics are more clever.
Author:  Wease [ Tue Oct 03, 2006 4:46 pm ]
Post subject: 
triggercut wrote:
Yeah, I don't get how you could even begin to compare these songs, especially since Insignificance isn't even an anti war song per se. Regardless Insignificance is a much better song than WWS, but again, two completely different sounding songs.


Planes being produced that drop bombs for reasons other than war? For what other purpose are bombers manufactured? I question your statement.
Author:  Wease [ Tue Oct 03, 2006 4:50 pm ]
Post subject: 
I chose Insignificance. I love both songs, but the music in Insignificance really puts it ahead. The music in the verses is kinda "bouncy" or happy then gets really series in the pre-chorus, then you can almost imagine bombs falling to the chorus. Really well composed. Definitely sets a mood.

WWS starts kinda everywhere, then gets pulled together and is just a piledriver for the rest of the song. Not much change in the dynamics. But still a very cool, rockin' song.
Author:  orchiddoctor [ Tue Oct 03, 2006 7:39 pm ]
Post subject: 
A quick vote for Yellow Ledbetter. Originally, the song was mumbled and somewhat lyricless; but by the 2003 tour, you can hear Eddie change it from loss of friends to someone who is getting the dreaded letter from Uncle Sam telling him that a friend/relative has died in the war. He doesn't know whether the soldier is coming home in a box or a bag. It's heartwrenching to hear him wail about "wishing it all away" or imagining them/him alive on a porch, enjoying the life that the war stole from them/him.

Don't know about you guys, but I was in my late teens/early twenties during Viet Nam. Lots of those letters; lot of those boxes and bags. As the various U.S. incursions into Afghanistan and Iraq have progressed, the lyrics have become stronger. At Grand Rapids, he sings that he "wish[es] this war away." No longer a vague "it"--which already conveyed tragedy.

I dunno--"Insignificance" seems to be a general take on how dumb the average person is in the face of a holicaust; "Worldwide Suicide" seems a bit too clever and vitriolic. But Yellow Ledbetter has morphed from its formlessmess into a true expression of grief about the tragedy of war. It has taken on a life of its own as it reflects the tragedy of war. It seems that it is more from the heart.

Love the irony when Mike tosses in a few Star Spangled Banner licks.

Besides--no one likes "Army Reserve"? The pain of those left behind to fret over their loved ones who are stuck in this motherfucking insane evil war?

Fuck Nixon--I mean Bush.
Author:  Junco Partner [ Tue Oct 03, 2006 9:22 pm ]
Post subject: 
I dont know if i actualy consider insignifigance strictly an anti war song, certainly there are themes that permiate in the song. to me its more of a song about social injustice on a broader scale. it kinda does remind me of the story behind slaughterhouse five (aka the bombing of dresden). it seems to me this can apply to situations that dont involve war.
however, it also seems to say things to me about how people are sometimes treated as disposable property by larger entities such as companies, psycotic military, or totalitarian and fascists governments. I do suppose wws is the same, but it seems more relevant now. I honestly like both songs, I find insignifgance has more in terms of complexity musically, while wws is better on the energy front. I suppose the lyrics of insignifigance are better, while the vocal delvery of wws enhances the lyrics ahead of the former.
Author:  Junco Partner [ Tue Oct 03, 2006 9:47 pm ]
Post subject: 
orchiddoctor wrote:
A quick vote for Yellow Ledbetter. Originally, the song was mumbled and somewhat lyricless; but by the 2003 tour, you can hear Eddie change it from loss of friends to someone who is getting the dreaded letter from Uncle Sam telling him that a friend/relative has died in the war. He doesn't know whether the soldier is coming home in a box or a bag. It's heartwrenching to hear him wail about "wishing it all away" or imagining them/him alive on a porch, enjoying the life that the war stole from them/him.

Don't know about you guys, but I was in my late teens/early twenties during Viet Nam. Lots of those letters; lot of those boxes and bags. As the various U.S. incursions into Afghanistan and Iraq have progressed, the lyrics have become stronger. At Grand Rapids, he sings that he "wish[es] this war away." No longer a vague "it"--which already conveyed tragedy.

I dunno--"Insignificance" seems to be a general take on how dumb the average person is in the face of a holicaust; "Worldwide Suicide" seems a bit too clever and vitriolic. But Yellow Ledbetter has morphed from its formlessmess into a true expression of grief about the tragedy of war. It has taken on a life of its own as it reflects the tragedy of war. It seems that it is more from the heart.

Love the irony when Mike tosses in a few Star Spangled Banner licks.

Besides--no one likes "Army Reserve"? The pain of those left behind to fret over their loved ones who are stuck in this motherfucking insane evil war?

Fuck Nixon--I mean Bush.


what does vitriolic mean? I dont know if you can make something too clever, but its your oppinion so hey cool beans.
Author:  orchiddoctor [ Tue Oct 03, 2006 10:33 pm ]
Post subject: 
Vitriolic means bitter, caustic, acerbic. In other words, "Worldwide Suicide" is a very biting condemnation of Georgie Porgie's war crimes. But for all that truth, the song seems a little too clever for its own good.

Not that I don't like it: it sure is an infectuous pop tune; the Devo-like opening riff, as if one is opening the door to a party ("Whip it good!"). Its harsh criticism of the war is right on! I just happen to like the metamorphosis of "Ledbetter" from a riff and a mumble into a an indictment of war. Note, too, that it comes at the end of each show, as if it were the final word for the evening.
Author:  stip [ Tue Oct 03, 2006 10:50 pm ]
Post subject: 
orchiddoctor wrote:
A quick vote for Yellow Ledbetter. Originally, the song was mumbled and somewhat lyricless; but by the 2003 tour, you can hear Eddie change it from loss of friends to someone who is getting the dreaded letter from Uncle Sam telling him that a friend/relative has died in the war. He doesn't know whether the soldier is coming home in a box or a bag. It's heartwrenching to hear him wail about "wishing it all away" or imagining them/him alive on a porch, enjoying the life that the war stole from them/him.

Don't know about you guys, but I was in my late teens/early twenties during Viet Nam. Lots of those letters; lot of those boxes and bags. As the various U.S. incursions into Afghanistan and Iraq have progressed, the lyrics have become stronger. At Grand Rapids, he sings that he "wish[es] this war away." No longer a vague "it"--which already conveyed tragedy.

I dunno--"Insignificance" seems to be a general take on how dumb the average person is in the face of a holicaust; "Worldwide Suicide" seems a bit too clever and vitriolic. But Yellow Ledbetter has morphed from its formlessmess into a true expression of grief about the tragedy of war. It has taken on a life of its own as it reflects the tragedy of war. It seems that it is more from the heart.

Love the irony when Mike tosses in a few Star Spangled Banner licks.

Besides--no one likes "Army Reserve"? The pain of those left behind to fret over their loved ones who are stuck in this motherfucking insane evil war?

Fuck Nixon--I mean Bush.


I think I said this in my original post--I thought about including army reserve and last solider but while both are first rate on the pain of war, there is no explicit condemnation of war within them. You can recognize the cost and the sacrifices that must be made without being critical of the enterprise in the first place. A hawk could still get behind army reserve in a way they couldn't for WWS or insignificance

Good point on Ledbetter.

I'll say this in every one of these threads. If you have an idea for a comparison you'd like to see, just pm me and let me know (and if you want to write the first post even better--it's nice to spare people my ramblings every now and again)
Author:  orchiddoctor [ Tue Oct 03, 2006 11:43 pm ]
Post subject: 
I can't wholly agree with your assessment of "Army Reserve" (though I respect the hell out of it and this thread). I guess as a genuine tree humping hippie refugee from the sixties (Far Out!) that I see most songs that express the pain caused by war as an indictment of war; and sometimes these indictments are more powerful that the direct assault since they transcend bare fact. Sometimes. Yes, a hawk MIGHT get behind "Army Reserve," but think about the line, "She tells herself and anyone else, father's risking his life for our freedom." She has to convince herself in order to convince her angry, doubting son. Hard job for her to do. All she wants is for her husband to come home alive; "Darling you'll save me if you save yourself." Her pain is one of the true casualties of war: the mental and emotional anguish that Eddie depicts so clearly. One could argue that while this is tragic, the war is necessary. But I don't think that's where Mr. Vedder lies on the topic.

My commentary is meant to be outside the box of this thread. Just to provoke some genuine thought about this insanity we call peacekeeping. Sometimes, when I am asked whether the glass is half full or half empty, I answer "what glass?" Sometimes one good question prompts another. :D

But to respond to your question of choosing between a or b, I would have to go with the direct and very specific attack of "WWS." I'll go back and check the appropriate box.

Like the buttons said, "Buck Fush."
Author:  stip [ Wed Oct 04, 2006 12:17 am ]
Post subject: 
orchiddoctor wrote:
I can't wholly agree with your assessment of "Army Reserve" (though I respect the hell out of it and this thread). I guess as a genuine tree humping hippie refugee from the sixties (Far Out!) that I see most songs that express the pain caused by war as an indictment of war; and sometimes these indictments are more powerful that the direct assault since they transcend bare fact. Sometimes. Yes, a hawk MIGHT get behind "Army Reserve," but think about the line, "She tells herself and anyone else, father's risking his life for our freedom." She has to convince herself in order to convince her angry, doubting son. Hard job for her to do. All she wants is for her husband to come home alive; "Darling you'll save me if you save yourself." Her pain is one of the true casualties of war: the mental and emotional anguish that Eddie depicts so clearly. One could argue that while this is tragic, the war is necessary. But I don't think that's where Mr. Vedder lies on the topic.

My commentary is meant to be outside the box of this thread. Just to provoke some genuine thought about this insanity we call peacekeeping. Sometimes, when I am asked whether the glass is half full or half empty, I answer "what glass?" Sometimes one good question prompts another. :D

But to respond to your question of choosing between a or b, I would have to go with the direct and very specific attack of "WWS." I'll go back and check the appropriate box.

Like the buttons said, "Buck Fush."


I think army reserve is meant to be an anti-war song, especially knowing eddie's politics. BUT, you could also imagine the wife of a soldier in WWII being the main character, supporting the war, and still having to try and convince herself that in the end it is all worth the sacrifice.

At any rate, I wanted to do an Army reserve last soldier matchup somewhere down the line, so it is more that i'm looking for reasons to not include it here (I also think two songs is better than three, but please let me know if you all disagree)than anything else
Author:  dirtyfrank0705 [ Wed Oct 04, 2006 12:45 am ]
Post subject: 
stip wrote:
At any rate, I wanted to do an Army reserve last soldier matchup somewhere down the line, so it is more that i'm looking for reasons to not include it here


This is tricky. I'm not so sure you can make a comparison between Last Soldier and Army Reserve. I can't wait to see what you come up for that one, Stip.
Author:  orchiddoctor [ Wed Oct 04, 2006 1:41 am ]
Post subject: 
I'm probably missing it, but I wonder whether there should be a thread not just about which songs have what imagery, but about your opinion(s) about Ed's attack on the war. I suspect that many of you are at the ripe old age of cannon fodder.

This doesn't belong here, in this thread, of course. But jeeze it's your asses this time. I notice that "Bushleager" was met with mixed responses when played live, so there must be some on each side of the fence, and some who have splinters in their shorts for sitting on it.

What, indeed, does it mean when a war has taken over?

Worth a thread?

Meantime, I apologize for getting off topic.
Author:  throw your hatred down [ Wed Oct 04, 2006 1:57 am ]
Post subject: 
id say sunday bloody sunday with another brick in the wall tag lol but its not in the choice so i'll go with wws by farinsignificance is one of the song i never really got in I dont like the music from it...
Author:  dirtyfrank0705 [ Wed Oct 04, 2006 2:01 am ]
Post subject: 
throw your hatred down wrote:
id say sunday bloody sunday with another brick in the wall tag lol but its not in the choice so i'll go with wws by farinsignificance is one of the song i never really got in I dont like the music from it...


I love run-on-sentence posts. :lol:
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