I know this topics are discussed in many existing threads but i wanted to start a dedicated one. I really got intrigued by this because there is no real information about it and it's deffinitelly a hot topic in the fan community.
I've been googling around a bit and i can't say i found much but...

from 2000

http://www.usatoday.com/life/music/music255.htm


-I suspect the 10C is being a spokesperson person for the band here, as it sounds they have a bit to much authority here for being just a fan club.
-What was the fan response to Basecamp? I remember people at synergy blaming the bitching fans for the end of officiall bootlegs, but i don't think it's the case honestly
-Basecamp was an almost in-house company so it would be unusual for PJ to dump the company on favour of somebody else(if there is such a thing), especially considering Brett is a co-owner
-DRM free seemed to be quite a big deal at the time and practically still is actually
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http://www.livedaily.com/news/8672.html


I've tried to find out who uses Basecamp currently and I've only seen Tori Amos. I don't know if I'm missing something but it doesn't seem to be a particularly successful business. The Doors were supposed to work with them too but couldn't get things trough with their label. So i got an idea of what could have happened.
I suspect the digital bootlegs were a financial fiasco. They still had to pay Basecamp, servers, Brett Eliason(who complained about how he had to mix the shows in a too short time if i recall correctly) and other people involved from the recording trough uploading process.

Also i found practically no quotes by the band about the bootlegs whatsoever so i have no idea where they stand about it, except for the early article with Eddie.

................................
part. 2 taping policy
Now that's one messy topic.
1st PJ always allowed audio taping but not video. This however meant nothing in practice as there never were actions taken about any videos of band's shows. Aparently it's officially OK to trade videos, despite the fact you can't officially take them.

2nd Ed's April Fools policy (is still officially allowed to trade he's past shows). This is weird.
-the 10C is neurotically pulling any footage they find out about This will not happen even if you post links for Birdman, or the 1995 movie
-Many people (wisely) pointed out that is better not to release tapes until the tour is over so to not provoke tougher security checks. What really happened is the exact oposite as, according to reports, the security was less relevant every next show. And that is odd since Ed must have known about the "on-line activities".

I still think there will be bootlegs but just like before the 2000 tour it wasn't 100% decided yet before the tour started, or still isn't possibly but it's in the air.
The restrictive recording policy makes sense to me because the only existing way of releasing official bootlegs is a label, if we're not talking mp3s. Digital bootlegs are still rare as are physical for that matter in the "PJ" meaning of the word.
I think the policy was a protecting measure for either a label/distributor or Ed if he still has to sign a deal.

Don't expect any label to understand people who are into live recordings. Let alone that going for the best source is part of the whole thing.
I'm pretty sure they didn't make any real money out of the bootlegs so far, so there really aren't any economical reasons to do them for them and consequentially grounds for "sell out" claims.
Considering the fact that Ed's tour was so short is a safer risk to take and it's a decision he doesn't have to discuss with the band if it turned out the bootlegs were economically unfavorable for them.

I'm looking for other ideas here and possibly quotes to figure this out

edit: Here's an article about how the process of digital bootleg making:
http://mixonline.com/livesound/tours/audio_pearl_jam/

Great thread Mine, I hope we get some interesting discussion about it. I'd really, really have to hope that they don't make any decisions as a band based on discussions from the Message Pit - I don't think it provides any kind of representation of the actual hardcore fanbase (those who are actually buying the boots).

I'd say your theory about the discontinuation of the digital boots via Basecamp is the best explanation I've heard yet, it certainly makes a lot of sense. I actually think it was a good decision if this was the case - the sound quality of the 2005-2006 boots (ie: those released under that system) were clearly less than those of both 2000 & 2003. They actually sounded straight-up bad in some cases, eg: Brisbane 1 2006. It honestly sounds like you're listening to the band in an aircraft hanger. It can only be attributed to a rushed mix as the next night's show in the same venue sounds fine.

I'd be most happy if they returned to the older system of physical CD's and waited until after the end of the tour for them to be released, giving them more time to mix and master each show - at least that way you'd hope a better quality product would ensue.

---

Here's a quote from Stone from the Integral Naked interview with Ken Wilber, 2007:

I think they've discontinued the bootlegs for a few reasons:

They got tired of people bitching about the sound quality
They got tired of people bitching about the time it took to get the boots after the show
They got tired of people not paying for the boots

So, they took them away. And now people are bitching about missing something they didn't seem to appreciate when they had it. People got spoiled.

your just figuring out now that pj fans are spoiled fucks.

There definitely is a contingent of spoilt and bitching fans. But if it was for the bitching and smart assing the 10C would be closed and the band would have broken up and retired...years ago. Plus don't forget the guy responsible for the sound of the bootlegs was not satisfied either.
I hope they have better ways of understanding fan views than synergy and, what the hell, here too.

I think that there are "grown up" reasons behind the cancellation of the bootlegs.

I refuse to believe that Pearl Jam is done with official bootlegs. I certainly hope its not true, but if it is, they better open up taping with a real taping policy and hopefully a tapers' section as well.

Or what, exactly? What will happen if it is, and they don't?

[deleted due to misunderstanding on my part]

No, no, not at all. I'm genuinely curious. Can we, as Pearl Jam fandom, really make any changes to their taping policy. Do they really owe it to us to provide us with a taping section or any other accomodations? Not trying to be a dick, I like the boots too. Just honestly concerned. Sorry if I came off that way.

ok, in that case I apologize for my reaction. my original statement wasnt a threat towards the band, it was more a hope that they wouldnt completely abandon their live show fanbase (the tapers and collectors, not those who attend) , which feels like the direction they are heading.

can we cause a change to their taping policy? I think we can. we know at least SLH lurks on this board, and I think the change from mp3 only in 2005 to mp3 and FLAC in 2006 was a response to the fans asking for it.

do they owe it to us? no. but I would lose a lot of respect for them if they didnt make some accomodations for circulation of their shows. why? because they have built their career on being authentic in their live perfomance. they know fans follow their entire tours, and tape/trade/share shows. if they dont do official bootlegs, I see no reason to not open up taping.

those mp3s that everyone complained about for the 05 tour are looking pretty good right about now...

i'm new here, but i've been around the block twice

some bands offer bootleg copies of their shows at the end of the show...thats right as you leave show at the door they hand you a copy of the show from that night. that is my dream wish for pearl jam. sure they cost $25 but what a great experience it is to listen to the show minutes after it happens. they are called "instant live" bootlegs. trademarked.

what amazes me is that they can pull these sbd/aud mixes off while the show happens and hand them over to the fans who preorder them before the shows starts. who needs brett e or whoever to mix them? nonsense! all you have to do is preorder at the show as you walk in and if you don't they don't have extra copies at the end for the people who didn't. with this system i've waited up to 25minutes until i get my copy but other than that i think highly of this system.

pearl jam mix up their setlists and have literally created a frenzy with bootlegs because of the special feel each show has. i personally have bought at least 35-40 from the band over the years and when they opened up the fact that you could trade anything then i got the whole last USA tour from 1 website for free all in flacs with artwork and pictures! i think the site was pjsidewalk criusers( god bless them!!)

anyways i dont think the bootlegs are not happening...i think they are just regrouping to see whats best. it makes me disappointed that they don't convey what is going on to us but i suppose they have their reasons.

in the very least they should change their recording policy to include external mics.

I guess the big question is does the band care about this probably minority section of their fanbase? Do they really care that fans want their shows? They once did, obviously. Did business and money-making get in the way of a really cool thing between a band and it's fans?

I don't think that people wanting bootlegs of the shows they attended (or the 'interesting' ones they didn't) is a minority...certainly not a minority in the 10c fans!

there is ways to make the distribution online very cheap (using p2p)... economics is not a good argument for stopping the program.

I'm still crossing fingers for the 07 tour boots (I know there'll be plenty of good audience sources for the 08 at least... thre's big gaps in the 07 ones though...because no-one seemed to believe official boots were not going to happen!)

Compared to people who buy studio CDs it's deffinitelly a minority.


I'm not aware of p2p having any commercial use. I'm not sure if that could even be possible or even legal.
Economics don't involve just the distribution but mixing and production too. Recording a show and making it suitable for release are 2 different, payed for, processes. Plus you have to consider they used their long time guy and his company for it and he was complaining about the fact that he would prefer having more time to prepare the bootlegs.

I don't have access to any information about PJ financial situation, so don't like to pretend i know how much money flows trough their hands.


As much as fans like to moralise about how the band is supposed to function we have to understand the band functions as a business. They can't do something just because fans think they should.
Just thinking about it relatively considering they don't have a big label to milk nor they use sponsors for tours it's obvious they are not getting as much money from their business as they could.
Bootlegs are part of that. Studio albums, tours, bootlegs etc. are not separate businesses. The end balance has to include everything they do as a band. Many people just assume that everything makes them millions. Even socks and lighters.
I can't share the opinion that they are supposed to do whatever even though it doesn't work for them economically speaking.
They are just a rock band.

people BUYING CDs is becoming a minority

it is possible and it is done.
BBC and Channel 4 here use a p2p system for distribution, using something called Kontiki.
BBC is free (but restricted to UK people), but C4 has programs to buy as well as the free stuff.

sure, but the recording they're doing anyway, we know that.
the mixing, we wouldn't necessarily mind having to wait until after the tour, we do for audience boots, as long as they tell us it'll be that way.
it's the fact they gave us a timeframe then didn't stick to it that upset people.

my argument is that I think they can make money with the boots, even if they haven't in the past, by rethinking the distribution.

It's not that important. What upset people is the fact that they are spoilt.
They record all the shows but they don't post produce and master them the way they did for the boots.


Distribution is probably the least problematic of the costs.

I'd love to someday find out how much money was made/lost on the various bootlegging formats that they tried.

I have to think that if a band like Metallica, that changes maybe 4-6 songs on a given night, can make money off of releasing every show, a band like PJ, who is known for the energy and uniqueness of each and every show can do so as well.

here's a solution...after the tour ends, produce 2,000 CD sets of each show, with unique artwork, and sell them (fan club only) for $25 each as limited edition. we know PJ fans will buy anything that is (a) in the goods section, and (b) limited edition. that's revenue of $50K per show. even if it costs you $10K (high estimate i think) per show to record, master, and produce the discs, you come out way ahead.

you get the shows out to fans in high quality. you have zero left-over inventory, and you make money.

The thing is they had Sony backing them up in the begining and there are left overs from the 2000 bootlegs.
It seems logic that they wouldn't have quit the bootlegs if it worked for them especially financially.
10K isn't all that high an estimate probably.