actually I strongly suspect you've said very little other than 'these songs are shit becuase I hate them and they suck' but I'd like to hear more.

Noi, your major flaw is that you believe in your own perceptions to a fault. They played Wishlist, Betterman, and mfc at the BEST NA shows that tour. Fans love those three songs.

2/9/03
Of the Girl, Breakerfall, Corduroy, Save You, Ghost, Nothing As It Seems, I Am Mine, Love Boat Captain, Given To Fly, Lukin, Not For You, Thumbing My Way, You Are, Even Flow, Insignificance, Rearviewmirror
enc 1: Free Jazz, Do the Evolution, Last Exit, Elderly Woman, Better Man, Once
enc 2: Soon Forget, Last Kiss, Rockin’ in the Free World

11 songs out of 24 played were off their last two albums. That isn't coasting. That is being proud of the music you've made and trusting that your audience likes your music. I just picked a random show, but that is Australia 2003 right there.

Maybe it was the mixing, I don't know, but I agree that Australia 2003 was sub-par. Granted I've only heard three of the shows, and maybe I got three bad bootlegs, but to me the shows were flat and boring. They are by far the boots I listen to the least.

Australia/Japan 2003 is like the first leg of US shows in 2006. Some nice stuff going on, but it's really just the band getting warmed up. They both really pale in comparison to strong work that came on tours later in the year.

(This is part of why the short tour thing they've been doing lately doesn't work for me. They never really got rolling in Europe 07 or on the East Coast in 08. Could be the same story in 09. Though, I will acknowledge, the short tour worked in Canada in 2005.)

1.

I don't entirely get people who visit message boards just to complain that a abnd hasn't been good in over a decade. I think it's a valid opinion. I feel that way, eg, about Blues Traveler. But I've accepted that times have changed, the band changed, and it's not my thing anymore. I still enjoy the old stuff. But I don't visit their message boards and complain about how the band hasn't been good since Bobby died. What's the point?

That's not to say you have to be a universal fan to be on a message board. Lots of people here don't love recent stuff as much as old stuff, but having a reasoned opinion and hope for the future are different than calling everything since 1997 shit and anyone who likes it a shit-lover.

2.

As for No Code, I said before that I really don't like Off He Goes. But I don't know that I would call it the album's flaw. Certainly enough people like it that I can see it has its place on the record.

I think the major flaw with the album is, as most agree, the ending. PT is the emotional end point of the record. Everything later is just filler at best. I think I'm Open could definitely work as a hidden track, and people wouldn't harbor the same kind of grudge against it. But Mankind is a B side all the way and while I like Around the Bend it's just so out of place especially after the 3 tracks preceding it.

Even just a very simple reduction make this a much stronger album, IMO:

1. Sometimes
2. Hail Hail
3. Who You Are
4. In My Tree
5. Smile
6. Off He Goes
7. Habit
8. Red Mosquito
9. Lukin
10. Present Tense
(I'm Open)

It's short, yes, but it's to the point and it's solid. It's still not among my favorites of their albums, but with this finish at least it's not a mess.

Not bad, and I agree 100% that "Present Tense" should have closed the album. I do think "Around The Bend" still could work though, maybe before PT?? Also, I think "All Night" would have worked on No Code, maybe after "Sometimes" and prior to "Hail Hail".

I like all night quite a bit but I see no room for it on No Code. Where would it go, and why would you include it?

Absolutely. It's a fun song but I just cannot see where you could shoehorn it in.

I do like the No Code-lite version of the album above.

If "All Night" were to go anywhere IMO, it would need to go after "Sometimes", or after "Hail Hail". I know it's a fun song n'all, but I think it could work...maybe fit with the "no code" motif.

yes

actually, i think if you look at my posts i dont think ive come out shooting calling anyone a shitlover until they have made an offensive comment. i usually get dissed first, by people without an arguement and then they get it back. still, im trying to work on that as it cant be much fun too have someone point out the truth about the band, and might not be fun realise or read. and lets face it, people have agreed with me about those aussie shows being shit because they were. why is it such a taboo on a DISCUSSION board like this too say things are shit? i dont automatically think people who think the new stuff is good is a shitlover - i only think that when their entire arguement for the new material consists of 'dont whinge about it' or 'how negative', rather than a justifyable opinion. thats not an arguement, thats a fucking idiot who probably knows im right on a particular thing but doesnt want to point out problems the band is facing, which strikes as slightly derranged.

BACK ON TOPIC. i agree with you that it could do with a trim. but lukin instead of around the bend? i dont think that makes sense. also im open induces cringes on the faces of 90% of the people i know and personanlly i think its pretentious and contrived and COMPLETLY undermines the grown up feel of the lp, by making its point far too self consciously. even the way he pronounces the words sounds to me like 'ive just been to my first new york art show' and pisses me off. still if people like it...

i do not agree with around the bend being dropped at all. it is the perfect album closer for this record. it would work even better than it does if the last 3 tracks ran as follows:

dead man
present tense
around the bend

all completly gorgeous, laid back tunes that would flow perfectly into one another. the song is just completly gorgeous - the way the piano lilts away in the background is very tasteful in a mediterranian kind of way, and the guitar interplay is extremely well thought out and interesting (another aspect completly lost on 90% of pj's more recent output). lovely lyrics. perfect feel. great execution and would work even better after pt. it actually was one of the tracks that got me into this record - i thought 'wow! the band is capable of this stuff, and everyone just thinks jeremy when they hear the name pearl jam? thats bullshit!' its just a lovely woozy track. binaural is the best example in their catalogue of a nice relaxing last 3 tracks, given the feeling of a complete musical journey coming to a well thought out end - or a good album if you want to use the proper term.

please excuse my spelling - i know its terrible.

You implied that the Aussie shows were shit because the band likes to coast and were obviously in the coasting mood based on the setlists choices they made, ie. wishlist, betterman, mfc... I don't think that was the reason they weren't as good as the rest of tour. Rust is the issue. Only a handful of shows in over 2 years before they hit Australia in 2003.

Stip, when you list the songs out the way you did it is hard to believe that No Code is my favorite record by the band, but for me, this album as a whole really seems like they did something special. From music to artwork, lyrics and production.

those intangibles matter. They are, in the end, albums, rather than collections of songs.