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PostPosted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 4:56 am 
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This thread title is an oxymoron.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 4:57 am 
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Cal Varnsen wrote:
If there is one flaw on this album, I would say its Habit.


Right on, brother.

It really throws a kink in the album that does as much as it can to not sound like Pearl Jam. It has the punk sound that PJ adores so much, but the whole song just isn't very appealing, mostly because of the way Ed sings on it. Thankfully, No Code isn't without it's solid rockers amongst a host of soft tracks, giving it some very nice variety. The Sometimes-Hail Hail opener is an excellent way to start the album off and say "look...this record is going to be different, but we haven't forgotten who we are." Mankind is just for fun if you ask me, and Lukin is effective because it is short.

All in all, I agree with Cal. The major flaw is Habit. I think it might be track 1 on side 2 of the album for all of you vinyl collectors, which makes the song an even bigger flaw on the album. Geez, if they could've just gotten rid of that and Mankind, beginning side 2 with Red Mosquito, this would unquestionably be my favorite Pearl Jam album.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 5:01 am 
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stip wrote:
I think the flow on this album is terrible.


That is a very good point.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 5:01 am 
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cincinnati dude wrote:
The only two songs on this album that i ever skip are habit and i'm open.


Same here.

I really like No Code, but to me the album seems really short in length. Sometimes after I listen to certain Pearl Jam albums I get this feeling of happiness and I sit there thinking, "Wow, that was good." I don't get that with No Code, and maybe it's because of the the lack of flow with the songs.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 5:32 am 
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it probably still ranks as my favorite pj album and i totally agree the first 4 songs are just about flawless in their direction and flow.

'smile' is where the album starts to get bumpy but it's a great song with the singalong chorus and all...'off he goes' has always been a kinda take-it or leave-it track for me but the run from 'habit' to 'present tense,' beats 'sometimes' to 'in my tree'

'habit' and 'lukin' are awesome, the kinda pj songs i wanna hear more of, so when i hear a track like 'wws' it gets me all creamy in the pants and whatnot.

'present tense' starts slow, even when i hear it live i kinda wanna blackout for a minute or two but starting with "you can spend your time alone..." i love it and the jam at the end of the song ranks as some of the best music ever recorded.

same goes for 'red mosquito,' my absolute favorite pj song for all the reasons everyone else has said. the 11/01/95 (live debut?) version has eddie singing the "if i had known then" part an octave higher than the album version and it's gotta be my favorite live pj cut.

no code sealed the deal.

oh and to answer the question, 'mankind' and 'i'm open,' i could live without em. they shoulda put 'don't give me no lip' and 'hitchhiker' on there instead.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 6:15 am 
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Dang, why all the Habit bashing....Despite my username, it may not be even be my favorite song on the album (Smile, RM, PT, In My Tree...too many good ones), but it's still a good top 15-20 song for me at all times. I think it goes real well after Off He Goes, which really highlights the diversity of the album. I bet it would be a lot better if they re-did it in the studio with Matt on the drums, though--he plays the song much better than Jack did.

Anyway, the one "flaw" that I would go with is choosing Who You Are as the single. It's a good song, but not nearly as grasping as most of the rest of the album.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 6:18 am 
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i think the only flaw is the placement of off he goes. i love the song, but i don't like it's place on the album. i think they shoulda placed that on the back end where i'm open and around the bend is....

for people who say no songs stand out: what the hell? in my tree isn't a stand out? red mosquito isn't a stand out? present tense?

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 6:19 am 
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While it is a good album, I think overall it is my least favorite. Some of the songs just didn't do it for me, namely I'm Open, Present Tense, and Habit. Also, while Red Mosquito and Hail, Hail would have made excellent lead singles, they opted to try Who You Are. It's a great song, but you can't expect it to get much airplay.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 6:22 am 
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#1 favorite Pearl Jam album, so I'm hard-pressed to find a flaw. I agree that the ending of the album is a bit weak - I'm not a huge fan of Mankind or I'm Open, but I do really dig Around the Bend.

I'm surprised Off He Goes has drawn as much heat as it has in this thread. I think it's a beautiful melody with powerful lyrics. I also disagree about the flow of the album, although I see where y'all are coming from. I think the beginning of the album flows really well. If you listen closely, you can hear Jack's drums from Sometimes go right into Hail Hail, something I had actually never noticed until a few weeks ago. Then Hail Hail fades out while Who You Are fades in. The first four songs flow real nice, in my opinion. Only in the middle - Smile to Off He Goes to Habit - does it not flow as well.

-I would have put Smile towards the end of the album (probably second to last), and while I skip over I'm Open I can sort of see the rationale behind putting it on there.

-Habit was a song I always hated until a couple months ago when I was watching the Orlando House of Blues show. WOW did that rock hard. There is a lot of subtlties that I had been missing. The one flaw in this song is the chorus - the vocals are lacking a bit.

-Red Mosquito is probably my favorite track. Great lyrics, great music, and the ending riff is amazing.

-Present Tense. Brilliant. I really can't find any other words to describe it. Again, lyrics and music. The slow adding of instruments as the song goes on, building up to the jam-out at the end before closing softly.


There are so many standout tracks and they are all so unique in their own way that it makes No Code my favorite PJ album.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 6:45 am 
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I can never decide which is my favorite pj album, but this one came close. I like how it starts very moody and then hail hail hits me in the head and makes me love the album then in my tree is fucking heaven then smile its just awsome then off he goes its kind of ehh- one flaw- but not a major flaw you just gotta be in the mood for it, then habit same as off he goes red mosquito- weirdly enoguh the song that really got me into pearl jam and being able to say- this is a band that will be remembered then lukin i like it dont know why though... present tense beautiful
mankind normal, i'm open like it like it and around the bend makes me feel like home so far so good. :)


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 6:45 am 
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No Code was the album that turned me off PJ for a number of years until they released Yield. It would probably rate as my 2nd least fav to Binuaral.

On my first listen of No Code, I remember being extremely diassapointed. I was expecting big things after Vitalogy but they took away everything that was great about their music and created something deprived of energy and flow. Mind you I think it was done as a deliberate and conscious reaction to Vitalogy and there inlies my biggest fault of the album.

My biggest flaw with this album is the production. It is too laid back and underwhelming. I think with the set of songs that they had, which were middle of the road, they really should have injected a little more life and energy into them. I do think most of the songs work very well in the live setting though.

The standout tracks for me were Off He Goes and the very simple but affective Smile. The rest of the tracks have their moments, but are not really up there with the greatness of their previous and later efforts.

All in all, my opinion of the album has softened over the years and I can appreciate the album a lot more than I used to. It is a decent album but flawed with filler and very little killer and lacks any really true great moments.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 7:04 am 
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I liked No Code. But it was easily Pearl Jam sort frayed at its creative edges. My flaw for it would be the larger, it just has bad flow. I could re-do it 3 or 4 better ways. The Habit/Off He Goes as others have said is too much. Maybe it works on vinyl, but on cd, it's just too much.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 7:17 am 
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I'd have to say that the greatest flaw with this album (keeping in mind that this is my favorite PJ album) is that it seems to trail off at the end.

For most of the album, there is a strong contrast between hard and soft sounding songs (Sometimes-Hail Hail, Off He Goes-Habit, Lukin-Present Tense). However, it ends with three relatively soft tracks. Don't get me wrong, I love each of those songs individually, but I feel that there could have been one more "hard" song closer to the end to give the album a greater punch.

That's basically the only criticism that I can honestly give to an album thay I consider to be my all-time favorite.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 8:18 am 
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Habit isn't the greatest song in the world.

But the major flaw is that it could have used more songs.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 9:56 am 
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I try not to analyse an ablum song by song as on any album there's going to be some tracks that stand out for you more then others - This is true of No Code. I tend to look at albums as a whole - in the same way that after reading a book I don't analyse chapters. - Probably a bad analogy

Anyway as a whole I feel that No code is a classic album and will remain one of those albums that will never date as the songs on there are so universal and don't feel as though they belong to any time.

This is my favorite Pearl Jam album - it was the hardest one to get into because of the start contrast to their previous work, but it's the albums which take a few listens that always tend to be the most rewarding.

Given that this is a thread about the flaws of No Code and up till now all I've done is blow smoke up this albums arse - my one and only flaw with this album would be habit - it seems to be the weakest song on the album to me and listening to what was on Lost Dogs they could have replaced it with something much better.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 11:44 am 
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I've been looking forward to the No Code edition of the flaw thread-- of all the albums, this one has the most flaws.

My synopsis of the album pretty much echoes Stip's, except that I like Off He Goes a little more than he does, but still, even after almost ten years of owning No Code, I have yet to get into it and have relegated it to collecting dust on my CD rack.

There's definitely no standout song on this one, and even the good songs (Hail Hail, Off He Goes, Red Mosquito, Present Tense) don't come close to any of the previous records. And the fact that there's no one great song is exacerbated by the presence of all of the other crappy songs on the record: Sometimes is sleep inducing, Who You Are is too self indulgent, Smile drones on too long, Habit is paradoxically rocking and boring at the same time, Lukin is fun, but it's a throwaway track, Mankind and I'm Open are B-Sides, and Around the Bend is pleasant, but boring and nowhere near Release, Indifference or Immortality.

Another thing I've also never gotten into is Jack Irons' drumming-- yeah, he has his own style, but on the more straightforward tracks, he's boring. And I've never understood the alleged genius of the drumming on Who You Are and In My Tree-- to me, it seems that Dave had the capacity to play that unorthodox "tribal" style (only better) as evidenced by WMA. Plus, Dave could do it live-- listen to WMA from Atlanta 94.

One thing that particularly has embittered me towards No Code is that sense of arrogance that some Pearl Jam fans convey when discussing why No Code is their favorite. They always present themselves to be enlightened and above the Ten/Vs./Vitalogy hits that the mainstream is familiar with. Sometimes I think that No Code isn't really their favorite, but they're using it as a vehicle to instill a sense of superiority within themselves. I can speak of this from personal experience-- I made a post stating that I liked the earlier stuff more than No Code and someone responded with a message saying that I lacked the capacity to appreciate it, and that the only bands I listened to were Slipknot and Godsmack.

Of course, I'm not saying all fans are like that, but I just wish that the "true" fans of Pearl Jam would stop equating mainstream popularity to lesser intelligence or bad taste. I will say, though, it looks like this attitude is slowly dissapating from the fanbase as evidenced by the (thus far) excellent March Madness results.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 12:21 pm 
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rohfe100 wrote:
One thing that particularly has embittered me towards No Code is that sense of arrogance that some Pearl Jam fans convey when discussing why No Code is their favorite. They always present themselves to be enlightened and above the Ten/Vs./Vitalogy hits that the mainstream is familiar with. Sometimes I think that No Code isn't really their favorite, but they're using it as a vehicle to instill a sense of superiority within themselves. I can speak of this from personal experience-- I made a post stating that I liked the earlier stuff more than No Code and someone responded with a message saying that I lacked the capacity to appreciate it, and that the only bands I listened to were Slipknot and Godsmack.

Of course, I'm not saying all fans are like that, but I just wish that the "true" fans of Pearl Jam would stop equating mainstream popularity to lesser intelligence or bad taste. I will say, though, it looks like this attitude is slowly dissapating from the fanbase as evidenced by the (thus far) excellent March Madness results.


I totally agree with this :thumbsup:

I also think Stips's summation is a very good one.

Although in a certain mood i do enjoy this album a lot.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 1:42 pm 
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I agree that the flow of the album is the major flaw.

The first few songs are great but just after Off He Goes the album spins out of control. I don't care for Habit or Lukin and theirpresence gives the album that up and down inconsistancy.

It keeps going but differently. After a nice slow, introspective song like Present Tense with that awesome jam at the end...its followed by Mankind, an almost humourous, poppy song. Sure many hate it, but I think that's the best chance for a single...think about that chrous getting stuck in people's heads.

When I first got the album I was 14-15ish...I thought I'm Open was the best thing ever...but it's really grown off. For being the short, deep spoken word piece, i aint really saying anything new.

Around the Bend is good but not the best closer....might be my least favorite closer excluding Mophandle.

Sometimes - Off He Goes: Excellent
Habit-Around the Bend - Ehhh...ok


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 2:27 pm 
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This album is amazing. Such a change of pace. And change is good, my friends. It starts off with the best 1-5 of any album sans Yield. First flaw is that Off He Goes is too long so it kills the flow. Live 6 minutes is fine, but a song as repetitive as this shouldnt take so much space in the middle of an album.

Habit puts us back into gear and RM, Lukin and PT are another great stretch of songs. And then bam, brickwall. Mankind plays. Mediocre lyrics. Mediocre music. Stone singing is fine, but not this.

I'm Open and Around the Bend close the album off with a warm feeling. But, when Around the Bend ends, I get a feeling of "that's it?" It doesn't hit as hard as Release, Indifference, or even Stupid Mop.

So, the reason that this album isn't quite as good as Vitalogy or Yield is that it's like the Marlins. They get it going and everything looks great, and then bam, losing streak. Tease you some more and then bam, "Mankind."

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 2:34 pm 
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I really don't want to look down on people who prefer Ten & Vs. Sorry if I came over a bit like that. I just prefer this one (& Yield), but I won't say you're less intelligent if you like the first couple of records. :)


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