s Glorified G really about Dave A.' b-b guns? And does that matter.
No, yes and no.
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If you want to discuss "Insignificance" based upon Eddie's subsequent comments, why not do so
I have, see above.
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instead of finding fault with mine for ignoring those comments?
I havn't done anything of the kind.
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Look, if Eddie told you that it was about some fans at a baseball game getting hammered by fould balls, would you simply believe that and move on?
No, don't be silly.
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Let's assume Ed did say what none of you can quote.
I have see above.
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Does the alleged fact that it's about Boeing workers alter the words any?
No but it adds a different meaning to the words.
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Let's assume they do. Not ONE of you has gone on to describe or explain what the lyrics mean or are trying to convey. Not one of you has any thoughts on the subject. Not one of you has said anything other than it is about Boeing workers. So what? Try to add something intelligent to your posts.
I have see above. (mabye not very intelligent)
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What do you think of my take on the song?
Its alright.
You are coming accross as a very angry person, chill.
_________________ I Am Free - I Am Trapped My LastFM
Reading '06, Katowice '07, Wembley '07, Copenhagen '07, London O2 '09, London '10, Arras '10
You guys are taking my comments the wrong way, and if have left that impression, I apologize. Look, I'm only interested in the text. Yes, context is of course important. WWS is written in the shadow of Iraq. But does it matter what the name of the handsome soldier is? No.
If I ask someone to please provide the quote it is because there is no debate without it.
If you will notice, I am trying to aim my posts at the words of the song, and only those words. I am not dismissing alternate meanings derived from the alleged quote (I sau alleged not out of hostility, but because I do think that it should be supplied before anyone speaks about it). I personally--and please note that I speak only for myself--don't think it matters--I am not saying it doesn't exist or that it should not affect your reading of the lyric. It does not affect mine, that's all.
I have said repeatedly that while this might be aimed at a certain group of people, it works very well as a universal statement, a statement that can include invective against the bomb builders and the irony that they are being killed by their own bombs or an indictment of all of us who sit on our hands and do nothing. What's the fuss?
If the lyrics are aimed at Seattle, great. I have never once said that they could not be--only that I'd love to see Exactly what Ed said, and that it doesn't affect my reading either way. I have not once said you are wrong or that Eddie did not say this or that. All I have said is that I personally don't see the reference inside the lyric, so I act as one who reads a poem blissfully ignorant of all the baggage that the poet might attach to it.
I think you feel that I am putting up an affront to those who feel that Ed said this so they believe that. No way. I just don't see it whether Ed said so or not. And if this might place a difference context on the piece, that's fine. I like the lyric as it stands by itself, nothing more, nothing less.
And if that makes me hostile, then I should have been jailed years ago.
This doctor guy is a former English professor who got burnt out on all those Freshman comp papers--the one's that didn't provide a little documentation or didn't stand up for their own ideas. This is a forum.
My curiosity--and that's all it is--is IF you believe that Ed's comment changes the meaning, then stand behind it and share that meaning as pb21 has done.
Not apeshit--sorry.
Not argumentative or hostile--sorry. I have not attacked anyone, nor would I. This is a forum.
I just like a little evidence and then I'd love to see it applied to the song. Really.
I would still love to see the quote.
And, it's just not that important to me. Really. It's only a song; it ain't the Holy Bible or the New York Times or nuthin'.
Meanwhile, I'm sure I've caused Stip to roll his eyes more than once . . . .
Joined: Tue Nov 30, 2004 4:02 am Posts: 44183 Location: New York Gender: Male
orchiddoctor wrote:
This doctor guy is a former English professor who got burnt out on all those Freshman comp papers--the one's that didn't provide a little documentation or didn't stand up for their own ideas. This is a forum.
Meanwhile, I'm sure I've caused Stip to roll his eyes more than once . . . .
I'm grading freshman comp papers today
_________________ "Better the occasional faults of a Government that lives in a spirit of charity than the consistent omissions of a Government frozen in the ice of its own indifference."--FDR
Joined: Tue Nov 30, 2004 4:02 am Posts: 44183 Location: New York Gender: Male
And here you go orchiddoctor (from page 1 of this thread)
pb21 wrote:
stip wrote:
pb21 wrote:
I voted for Insignificance because I feel it outshines WWS on all counts. The music and the lyrics are more clever than WWS, plus I am a little tired of WWS at the moment, not too say I dont like it though.
Also I think (I may be wrong here) that Insignificance was a song about the people who work at Boeing in or around Seattle, making killing equipment as the means of earning money to live. The bit 'Bombs,... dropping down,... Please forgive... our hometown... In our insignificance' relates to the workers making the equipment used to kill. It is still an anti war song but coming from a slightly different angle.
ohhh, that's good. Can anyone confirm this?
I found where I heard it on 5H concert cronogy
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02/16/03 - Entertainment Centre: Adelaide, Australia attendance: 10,097 support act: Johnny Marr and The Healers soundcheck: Oceans (partial), In Hiding, Help Help, Gimme Some Truth (x2), Nothingman, Smile, Bushleaguer set: Love Boat Captain, Corduroy, Save You, Hail Hail, Help Help, Even Flow, I Am Mine, Better Man, You Are, Green Disease/Not For You, Thumbing My Way, Given to Fly, Elderly Woman, Insignificance, Go enc 1: Bushleaguer, Do the Evolution, Last Kiss, Black, Crazy Mary, State of Love and Trust enc 2: singalong, Soon Forget, Yellow Ledbetter, Rockin' in the Free World notes: Unusual 'LBC' opener debuts before a capacity Adelaide crowd leading to a stellar 'Corduroy' that gets the crowd going. After 'Hail Hail,' Ed expresses his emotions regarding the 100,000-people turnout at the anti-war protest just hours earlier in Adelaide's Victoria Square: "What a great day! I think this is one of the greatest weekends in my lifetime ... in our lifetimes. This weekend the biggest protest since the Vietnam war went down. You've got maybe 8 million people in over 600 countries coming out to protest the war. That's something to be toasted to and thankful for ... you should be very proud." 'Help Help' makes its debut, similar to the album version but no Stone backing vocals. Again, Ed lets the crowd sing part of the first verse of "Better Man.' 'Not For You' is amazing ("small my table, seats all of us; got so crowded but you we trust"). During the middle part, Mike rolls on the floor and stays there, jamming, joined by Ed soon after! 'GTF' lyrically references a female ("she" and "her") rather than a male persona. Ed sings the first verse of 'Elderly Woman' twice, commenting "Did I fuck it up?" 'Insignificance' is introduced as a song about a small town "near where we come from" with a plant where a lot of people work making planes (Boeing).The Bush mask is again worn by Ed during 'Bushleaguer' and a a blasting 'Do The Evolution' follow. The band turns around for 'Last Kiss,' playing for "... those less privileged people, those people in the back." Ed's wine bottle is passed around the front rows during 'Crazy Mary' and, after constant requests all night, 'State' appears for the first time this tour. Ed returns alone to attempt a crowd singalong of John Lennon's 'Give Peace a Chance.' Ed is wearing a sleeveless shirt with a photo of Bush and John Howard on it. Ed introduces "Luke the Uke" to Adelaide, then struggles with 'Soon Forget' again, but provides Townshend-style windmills and jumps. 'Yellow Ledbetter' sees the house lights on, and, to everyone's amazement, the band jumps straight into 'Rockin In The Free World' (thanks to Stone), the crowd going nuts, Ed jumping on speaker stacks, Mike running around the back and Matt tossing out drumsticks. Very up show with Ed dancing and Stone lively and laughing.
edit: the more I think the more I think that Insignificance is about someone who works in the factory.
'The swallowed seeds of arrogance... Breeding in the thoughts of ten... Thousand fools that fight irrelevance.'
The thoughts of ten and the thousand fools are the many that make the planes beliving they are superior than the people killed by them
'The full moon is dead skin... The one down here's wearing thin... So set up... the ten pins. As the human tide rolls in... Like a ball that's spinning. '
Someone who works in the factory is bowling and enjoying the 'american dream' having a fun night while at the same time the planes and their bombs are being unleashed.
'Feel like resonance of distance... In the blood...the iron lies It's instilled... to wanna live. '
There are other lines but I cant think how these would relate in quite the same way.
_________________ "Better the occasional faults of a Government that lives in a spirit of charity than the consistent omissions of a Government frozen in the ice of its own indifference."--FDR
Thanks, Stip. I missed that. I had heard it before, but . . . . Now that's cleared up.
Still, I don't see his remark affecting the song. Sigh.
And you have my sympathies on grading those endless papers. I used to have to assign the infamous "How to do something/process paper" and got one on how to snort cocaine, another on how to use a condom, and one on how to kill a cop. Who says teaching isn't eduational.
For the record, as a song, I like Insignificance better--one of my favorite tunes, the guitars giving that spooky feeling to those bombs.
I just like a little evidence and then I'd love to see it applied to the song. Really.
I would still love to see the quote.
Perhaps I shouldn't have assumed you had read the previous posts in the thread. My mistake.
Stip wrote:
he did quote his source earlier in the thread when I asked him where he had heard that
And thanks, Stip, but it wasn't me that brought the quote in. I couldn't remember the date to do my search. Did he not reference it at another show? My memory of what he said is quite different from the show mentioned above.
And Doc, for what it's worth, before I had heard Ed mention what he wrote the song about, my interpretation of the song was very similar to your own. I could easily see my hometown being the basis for those lyrics. And I think that's ok. I think as an artist, Ed feels that his songs shouldn't have to be about what he was thinking about when he wrote it. I think he wants people to come to their own conclusions about it rather than blindly following what he says it's about. But, you still can't discount what his intentions are.
Yeah, I did miss that. But, and I don't know the answer here, is Eddie always telling the truth? He is one slippery fellow--what with the myths of the band's name and all. And he loves to mess with the lyrics.
I'll leave this tempest in a teapot with this: I still don't see anything in the actual text that sheds any light on the particulars of which you speak. Remember that's just me and it doesn't make me right or wrong anymore than it makes you right or wrong. Yes, what Eddie says may be fact; but that doesn't mean that he got it into the song. Often--very often--writers have specific models or events in mind which, in turn, trigger a reactive work of art which moves away from the specific situation or catalyst into an etherial realm of universality. If writer has to tell you what the work is about, he has failed to convey that element of the truth. But more likely, that "truth" is not what he is after; he's got bigger fish to fry.
Most writers base their ideas and characters on their experiences.
We know who the subject of Dylan's "Positively Fourth Street" was, but her name is never mentioned and the song reflects a more universal invective against a certain type of woman by a certain type of man. That's why we often relate to certain songs--each of us to different ones. And that's why so many folks, for example, cling to "Alive"--it appeals to the pain that so many of us carry from childhood--a pain that is as different from one person to the next as fingerprints. It appeals to a certain slant of darkness. Is the protagonist Eddie, as he suggests? Certainly the dad issue is from his life--but the Mom issue is not. The answer here is both yes and no and who can say for sure and do we even need to?
Really, what's important is how you and he and she and I each react to a song--and the multiplicty of reactions is healthy. My approach is as objective as I'm able to make it. That's just me. I would rather read T.S. Eliot's poem, "The Wasteland," without all the distracting footnotes, even though many of those footnotes are valid and shed a certain light. That's just me.
I'm sure that many of Ed's lyrics have particualar and/or personal meaning. I would just like to find my own in my imagination's unfettered exploration before reality sets in and boxes me in. Nothing wrong either way.
Really, what's important is how you and he and she and I each react to a song--and the multiplicty of reactions is healthy. My approach is as objective as I'm able to make it. That's just me. I would rather read T.S. Eliot's poem, "The Wasteland," without all the distracting footnotes, even though many of those footnotes are valid and shed a certain light. That's just me.
I'm sure that many of Ed's lyrics have particualar and/or personal meaning. I would just like to find my own in my imagination's unfettered exploration before reality sets in and boxes me in. Nothing wrong either way.
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