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Black 47%  47%  [ 71 ]
I Got Shit 42%  42%  [ 64 ]
Can't Decide 9%  9%  [ 14 ]
Total votes : 149
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2006 7:08 pm 
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There's no contest for me. I got shit by far. If I got shit was only the "If just once i could feel love stare back at me" part, then I still prefer I got shit.

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stip wrote:
dirtyfrank0705 wrote:
I Got Shit, and by a mile. Some of Black's lyrics are superb but that drawn-out ending annoys the fuck out of me. "Do-do-do-do-do-do-do"? Ugh.


I think it works great. It takes a normally happy head bopping vocalization that we usually associate with happy sunshiney songs and stick it in the middle of someone basically in the middle of a breakdown

the oh oh oh stuff in unemployable, on the other hand...


I knew you would bring that up the second I hit the "submit" button. :lol:

Those don't really bother me at all, probably because the song is concise and musically upbeat. As for Black, I probably dislike that vocalization more because it just seems to last forever. That said, I still think Black has some great lyrics. I also think the Rearviewmirror version crushes the Ten version.

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inmytree wrote:
There's no contest for me. I got shit by far. If I got shit was only the "If just once i could feel love stare back at me" part, then I still prefer I got shit.


Yeah that line gets me all the time.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2006 7:20 pm 
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great writeup stip

i love the line above in i got shit...
however black is in my top 3 of all time, usually landing at number 1. me and black have been through some serious shit together. lots of broken hearts, from high school puppy love thru some very serious adult relationships. there's no way i can vote against black.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2006 7:26 pm 
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Abramam Cowley wrote:
"A mighty pain to love it is,
And 'tis a pain that pain to miss;
But of all pains, the greatest pain
It is to love, but love in vain.


It's an interesting thought. Both songs deal with the pain of love, Black the pain of a love that once was mutual but now exists only in the narrator's longings, I Got Shit the pain of a fantastic, idealised love that could never be.

Both songs are laden with imagery, more so than Eddie's average lyric. Black opens with the tools of an artist, unused 'empty canvas, untouched sheets of clay' lying in front of the narrator like the blank life he sees in front of him. The 'five horizons' lyric gives me trouble, I'm not sure exactly what it means, but it has that unidentifiable quality that longing gives you, which ties nicely with the 'earth to the sun' line, and the idea of some attractive force (the metaphorical use of gravity is excellent) spinning you in circles. Back to this later.

The opening to I Got Shit is an even more pathetic (in the classic sense) image. The shaking lips and bitten nails are symptomatic of mental health issues, and from the get go it's obvious this is a bleak sinking into decline. How more empty and alone can you get than an empty cup in the middle of the sea?

The prechoruses differ quite dramatically. Black continues the melancholy slow burn, raising the tension slightly, while I Got Shit explodes. The lyrical choices are brilliant in both; the hopelessness of 'Now the air I tasted and breathed has taken a turn' and "all i taught her was everything i know" is complimented awesomely by the change in the music and you can feel him literally fighting back in his mind as I Got Shit builds up into its chorus.

Said chorus is brilliantly effective - the way the music drops down a notch to add some lonely emotion to what Eddie is wailing, and the lyrics are an indicator of how beautiful and terrible at once unrequited love can be.

Black's second verse picks up the spinning theme again, and to me this whole part of the song is a brilliant description of love sickness - the searing, twisted thoughts, spinning, the sun dropping away and the nauseaus images these conjure up as we go spinning with him.

The second verse in I Got Shit also picks up the earlier themes, isolation, emptiness, and ties them in with a description of unrequited love that could break your heart. 'Got all these question don't know who I could even ask/So I'll just lie alone and wait for the dream where I'm not ugly and you're looking for me'. The acknowledgement of hopelessness, surrendering himself to lying alone thinking of a painful fantasy because it's more beautiful, despite the pain, than real life, is painful.

The second choruses are pretty similar to the first choruses, with just a few changes, and the addition in Black of the killer lines 'All the love gone bad turned my world to black/Tattooed all I see, all that I am, all I will be...yeah... ', which, delivered as it is here, is nothing short of mindblowing.

And then to the crescendo, and the pivitol lyrics for each song, another piece of common ground between the two.

Black has the immortal 'I know someday you'll have a beautiful life, I know you'll be a star/In somebody else's sky, but why, why, why can't it be, can't it be mine?' which in addition to being a breathtakingly beautiful thought that we all wish we'd though of first, still makes my hairs stand up; I Got Shit has the pivotal 'I paid the price...never held you', an acknowledgement that the price for keeping the fantasy alive was keeping it as a dream, untouchable, but somehow better for it, no matter how destructive.

The music in both follows some similar patterns too. Both start off with somewhat empty sounding chords, have a similar verse chorus verse chorus outro structure and then an explosive solo at the end. The starkness of the music in I Got Shit's verses gives room for the explosiveness of the overdriven pre chorus and the beautiful major chords providing the light for Eddie to walk in during the chorus, while the texture and warmth of Black provides a beautiful background for Eddie to weave his tortured magic on. Mike's guitar work is incredible, subtle in places, carrying the melody elsewhere, but always there, keeping an emotional involvement until the release of the solo at the end, and the amazing melody line that I was lucky enough to be part of a crowd singing.

To pick between these songs is incredibly difficult. I saw them both live in August, and they translate brilliantly on stage, although I do think I Got Shit does miss a certain something. I can't base my vote on live performances, however, since it's all about the unrequited love, and I think Black touches me more about it. Certainly I identify with it more (And it has a better solo :wink:)

I will say though, since we're on the subject of Black, that the Antwerp show was one of the most magical moments of my life, and that to be part of the that crowd, singing de neh neh neh neh neh neh and clapping, hearing the 'we belong together' was just perfect.

So Black it is, although a ridiculously tough choice. Good pair of songs to match Stip, gave me lots to think about.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2006 7:35 pm 
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:shock: :shock: Holy shit, Stu!

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gotta say I Got Shit

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2006 8:17 pm 
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stip i have to challenge you here, although first lemme say that ive really been enjoying these little themed matchups youve got going. :)

but i dont think black is a song of unrequited love. the lines "were laid spread about before me...as her body once did" and "how quick the sun can drop away" seem to imply to me that there was a failed relationship here. in that case, black doesn't fit the specifications of the matchup!

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2006 8:44 pm 
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dirtyfrank0705 wrote:
stip wrote:
dirtyfrank0705 wrote:
I Got Shit, and by a mile. Some of Black's lyrics are superb but that drawn-out ending annoys the fuck out of me. "Do-do-do-do-do-do-do"? Ugh.


I think it works great. It takes a normally happy head bopping vocalization that we usually associate with happy sunshiney songs and stick it in the middle of someone basically in the middle of a breakdown

the oh oh oh stuff in unemployable, on the other hand...


I knew you would bring that up the second I hit the "submit" button. :lol:

Those don't really bother me at all, probably because the song is concise and musically upbeat. As for Black, I probably dislike that vocalization more because it just seems to last forever. That said, I still think Black has some great lyrics. I also think the Rearviewmirror version crushes the Ten version.


I'll concede it may go on a bit too long. Usually the long breakdowns at the end of songs last about 30 seconds too long, and while this one isn't a terrible offender, it could be tighter

And you are totally right about the RVM remix.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2006 8:49 pm 
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Stuart rocks


I got shit by miles!


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2006 8:53 pm 
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DeLima wrote:
stip i have to challenge you here, although first lemme say that ive really been enjoying these little themed matchups youve got going. :)

but i dont think black is a song of unrequited love. the lines "were laid spread about before me...as her body once did" and "how quick the sun can drop away" seem to imply to me that there was a failed relationship here. in that case, black doesn't fit the specifications of the matchup!


oh I totally agree that this relationship happened. But it also seems clear (at least to me) that the woman has grown tired of it and moved on while the guy is still actively obsessed with her, so I thought that it counted. Do I have the defintion wrong?

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2006 9:06 pm 
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stuzzo wrote:
Abramam Cowley wrote:
"A mighty pain to love it is,
And 'tis a pain that pain to miss;
But of all pains, the greatest pain
It is to love, but love in vain.


It's an interesting thought. Both songs deal with the pain of love, Black the pain of a love that once was mutual but now exists only in the narrator's longings, I Got Shit the pain of a fantastic, idealised love that could never be.

Both songs are laden with imagery, more so than Eddie's average lyric. Black opens with the tools of an artist, unused 'empty canvas, untouched sheets of clay' lying in front of the narrator like the blank life he sees in front of him. The 'five horizons' lyric gives me trouble, I'm not sure exactly what it means, but it has that unidentifiable quality that longing gives you, which ties nicely with the 'earth to the sun' line, and the idea of some attractive force (the metaphorical use of gravity is excellent) spinning you in circles. Back to this later.

The opening to I Got Shit is an even more pathetic (in the classic sense) image. The shaking lips and bitten nails are symptomatic of mental health issues, and from the get go it's obvious this is a bleak sinking into decline. How more empty and alone can you get than an empty cup in the middle of the sea?

The prechoruses differ quite dramatically. Black continues the melancholy slow burn, raising the tension slightly, while I Got Shit explodes. The lyrical choices are brilliant in both; the hopelessness of 'Now the air I tasted and breathed has taken a turn' and "all i taught her was everything i know" is complimented awesomely by the change in the music and you can feel him literally fighting back in his mind as I Got Shit builds up into its chorus.

Said chorus is brilliantly effective - the way the music drops down a notch to add some lonely emotion to what Eddie is wailing, and the lyrics are an indicator of how beautiful and terrible at once unrequited love can be.

Black's second verse picks up the spinning theme again, and to me this whole part of the song is a brilliant description of love sickness - the searing, twisted thoughts, spinning, the sun dropping away and the nauseaus images these conjure up as we go spinning with him.

The second verse in I Got Shit also picks up the earlier themes, isolation, emptiness, and ties them in with a description of unrequited love that could break your heart. 'Got all these question don't know who I could even ask/So I'll just lie alone and wait for the dream where I'm not ugly and you're looking for me'. The acknowledgement of hopelessness, surrendering himself to lying alone thinking of a painful fantasy because it's more beautiful, despite the pain, than real life, is painful.

The second choruses are pretty similar to the first choruses, with just a few changes, and the addition in Black of the killer lines 'All the love gone bad turned my world to black/Tattooed all I see, all that I am, all I will be...yeah... ', which, delivered as it is here, is nothing short of mindblowing.

And then to the crescendo, and the pivitol lyrics for each song, another piece of common ground between the two.

Black has the immortal 'I know someday you'll have a beautiful life, I know you'll be a star/In somebody else's sky, but why, why, why can't it be, can't it be mine?' which in addition to being a breathtakingly beautiful thought that we all wish we'd though of first, still makes my hairs stand up; I Got Shit has the pivotal 'I paid the price...never held you', an acknowledgement that the price for keeping the fantasy alive was keeping it as a dream, untouchable, but somehow better for it, no matter how destructive.

The music in both follows some similar patterns too. Both start off with somewhat empty sounding chords, have a similar verse chorus verse chorus outro structure and then an explosive solo at the end. The starkness of the music in I Got Shit's verses gives room for the explosiveness of the overdriven pre chorus and the beautiful major chords providing the light for Eddie to walk in during the chorus, while the texture and warmth of Black provides a beautiful background for Eddie to weave his tortured magic on. Mike's guitar work is incredible, subtle in places, carrying the melody elsewhere, but always there, keeping an emotional involvement until the release of the solo at the end, and the amazing melody line that I was lucky enough to be part of a crowd singing.

To pick between these songs is incredibly difficult. I saw them both live in August, and they translate brilliantly on stage, although I do think I Got Shit does miss a certain something. I can't base my vote on live performances, however, since it's all about the unrequited love, and I think Black touches me more about it. Certainly I identify with it more (And it has a better solo :wink:)

I will say though, since we're on the subject of Black, that the Antwerp show was one of the most magical moments of my life, and that to be part of the that crowd, singing de neh neh neh neh neh neh and clapping, hearing the 'we belong together' was just perfect.

So Black it is, although a ridiculously tough choice. Good pair of songs to match Stip, gave me lots to think about.


you know stu, I take the time to set this threads up the least you could do is put some work into your post


that was a great read, the kind of stuff I wish we could get more of sometimes.


I've always equated the 5 horizons line with 5 senses--basically every way the person could experience life was bound up with her.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2006 9:08 pm 
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black. quite easily.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2006 10:29 pm 
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I got Id over black, both good songs, but Id gets the idea across so much stronger, intense both sonically and emotionally. both pretty angstry songs, but the subject calls for it. besides, Id is a more internal struggle while black is a reflection of a broken relationship.

Id just covers ground, that even today I wouldnt say many people venture into when writing songs about relationships. albiet its becoming very common and even a pain in the ass to hear stuff that stain has produced that was probably influenced by this, but dumbed down lyrically and musically.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 12:37 am 
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stip wrote:
DeLima wrote:
stip i have to challenge you here, although first lemme say that ive really been enjoying these little themed matchups youve got going. :)

but i dont think black is a song of unrequited love. the lines "were laid spread about before me...as her body once did" and "how quick the sun can drop away" seem to imply to me that there was a failed relationship here. in that case, black doesn't fit the specifications of the matchup!


oh I totally agree that this relationship happened. But it also seems clear (at least to me) that the woman has grown tired of it and moved on while the guy is still actively obsessed with her, so I thought that it counted. Do I have the defintion wrong?


yeah, technically 'unrequited' means a love that was never reciprocated, i think. but youre right that for all intents and purposes, the current state of the guy in black is unrequited love. so we'll go with it. :wink:

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Black by far.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 6:07 am 
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dirtyfrank0705 wrote:
stip wrote:
dirtyfrank0705 wrote:
I Got Shit, and by a mile. Some of Black's lyrics are superb but that drawn-out ending annoys the fuck out of me. "Do-do-do-do-do-do-do"? Ugh.


I think it works great. It takes a normally happy head bopping vocalization that we usually associate with happy sunshiney songs and stick it in the middle of someone basically in the middle of a breakdown

the oh oh oh stuff in unemployable, on the other hand...


I knew you would bring that up the second I hit the "submit" button. :lol:

Those don't really bother me at all, probably because the song is concise and musically upbeat. As for Black, I probably dislike that vocalization more because it just seems to last forever. That said, I still think Black has some great lyrics. I also think the Rearviewmirror version crushes the Ten version.


The bass on the Greatest Hits is cristal clear

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stip wrote:
I've always equated the 5 horizons line with 5 senses--basically every way the person could experience life was bound up with her.


:idea: Duh Stuart!

I should've thought of that, it makes perfect sense.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 2:13 pm 
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I think it has to be I Got Shit for unrequited love. Because I take the topic to be a love that never got returned. The lyrics of Black imply that he had that love once, they were together, and she left to go to someone else. I Got Shit alludes to one date, he fell for her, she didn't feel his mojo, and never returned his calls. If I look at it in that way, then only IGS meets the criteria of the thread

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Zephyr wrote:
I think it has to be I Got Shit for unrequited love. Because I take the topic to be a love that never got returned. The lyrics of Black imply that he had that love once, they were together, and she left to go to someone else. I Got Shit alludes to one date, he fell for her, she didn't feel his mojo, and never returned his calls. If I look at it in that way, then only IGS meets the criteria of the thread


That is technically true, but the subject's love in black is certainly unreturned at that time, and if anything the fact that it once was just makes things worse.

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