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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2007 4:19 pm 
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mray10 wrote:
When it's played live it is always, always the emotional high point of the show - it's the time when everyone comes together to marvel that after 17 years we're still here. It's always a beautiful moment.
It absolutely amazes me that Even Flow and Corduroy are show staples but at half the shows I've seen Alive has not been played. Like boys, what are ya thinkin'. Put down that crack pipe.


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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2007 4:27 pm 
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tyler wrote:
mray10 wrote:
When it's played live it is always, always the emotional high point of the show - it's the time when everyone comes together to marvel that after 17 years we're still here. It's always a beautiful moment.
It absolutely amazes me that Even Flow and Corduroy are show staples but at half the shows I've seen Alive has not been played. Like boys, what are ya thinkin'. Put down that crack pipe.


I think part of the reason I can't truly love the 2000 shows is because of the lack of Alive.


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not sure if you guys know this but they played it on almost all the Euro shows. they didn't play in the US that year (until the very last show) because of Roskilde.


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conoalias wrote:
not sure if you guys know this but they played it on almost all the Euro shows. they didn't play in the US that year (until the very last show) because of Roskilde.
I can completely understand and appreciate it being dropped from the 2000 tour after Rskilde. But it was almost a rarity on the 2003 tour, and still not played as often as either Even Flow or Corduroy on 2005 or 2006 tours.


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mray10 wrote:
tyler wrote:
mray10 wrote:
When it's played live it is always, always the emotional high point of the show - it's the time when everyone comes together to marvel that after 17 years we're still here. It's always a beautiful moment.
It absolutely amazes me that Even Flow and Corduroy are show staples but at half the shows I've seen Alive has not been played. Like boys, what are ya thinkin'. Put down that crack pipe.


I think part of the reason I can't truly love the 2000 shows is because of the lack of Alive.


the europe shows are better than the US anyways, so dig those, + you'll get Alive


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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2007 5:26 pm 
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tyler wrote:
But it was almost a rarity on the 2003 tour

not really.

2003-04-11 Main Set
2003-04-12 Main Set
2003-04-15 Main Set
2003-04-16 Encore
2003-04-18 Encore
2003-04-19 Encore
2003-04-21 Encore
2003-04-22 Main Set
2003-04-23 Encore 2
2003-04-25 Main Set
2003-04-26 Encore
2003-04-28 Encore
2003-04-30 Encore
2003-05-02 Encore
2003-05-03 Encore
2003-05-28 Encore 2
2003-06-01 Encore
2003-06-02 Encore
2003-06-03 Encore
2003-06-05 Encore 2
2003-06-09 Main Set
2003-06-10 Main Set
2003-06-12 Encore
2003-06-16 Main Set
2003-06-18 Main Set
2003-06-22 Encore
2003-06-26 Encore
2003-06-29 Encore 2
2003-07-03 Encore
2003-07-06 Encore
2003-07-09 Encore
2003-07-12 Encore
2003-07-14 Encore
2003-07-17 Encore
2003-07-18 Encore
2003-07-19 Main Set


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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2007 5:29 pm 
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conoalias wrote:
tyler wrote:
conoalias wrote:
not sure if you guys know this but they played it on almost all the Euro shows. they didn't play in the US that year (until the very last show) because of Roskilde.
I can completely understand and appreciate it being dropped from the 2000 tour after Rskilde. But it was almost a rarity on the 2003 tour, and still not played as often as either Even Flow or Corduroy on 2005 or 2006 tours.

not really.
The important thing here, and from my perspective, the only thing that matters is that it wasn't played at the 2003 shows I saw. And that's just wrong. A PJ concert without Alive is a lot like blue balls, you know you had fun but they didn't quite go all the way.


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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2007 5:46 pm 
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tyler wrote:
conoalias wrote:
tyler wrote:
conoalias wrote:
not sure if you guys know this but they played it on almost all the Euro shows. they didn't play in the US that year (until the very last show) because of Roskilde.
I can completely understand and appreciate it being dropped from the 2000 tour after Rskilde. But it was almost a rarity on the 2003 tour, and still not played as often as either Even Flow or Corduroy on 2005 or 2006 tours.

not really.
The important thing here, and from my perspective, the only thing that matters is that it wasn't played at the 2003 shows I saw. And that's just wrong. A PJ concert without Alive is a lot like blue balls, you know you had fun but they didn't quite go all the way.

haha, fair enough.


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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2007 6:24 pm 
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conoalias wrote:
tyler wrote:
But it was almost a rarity on the 2003 tour

not really.

2003-04-11 Main Set
2003-04-12 Main Set
2003-04-15 Main Set
2003-04-16 Encore
2003-04-18 Encore
2003-04-19 Encore
2003-04-21 Encore
2003-04-22 Main Set
2003-04-23 Encore 2
2003-04-25 Main Set
2003-04-26 Encore
2003-04-28 Encore
2003-04-30 Encore
2003-05-02 Encore
2003-05-03 Encore
2003-05-28 Encore 2
2003-06-01 Encore
2003-06-02 Encore
2003-06-03 Encore
2003-06-05 Encore 2
2003-06-09 Main Set
2003-06-10 Main Set
2003-06-12 Encore
2003-06-16 Main Set
2003-06-18 Main Set
2003-06-22 Encore
2003-06-26 Encore
2003-06-29 Encore 2
2003-07-03 Encore
2003-07-06 Encore
2003-07-09 Encore
2003-07-12 Encore
2003-07-14 Encore
2003-07-17 Encore
2003-07-18 Encore
2003-07-19 Main Set


that's still about half the shows. Hardly a rarity, but there were a lot more songs played with more frequency that are less important than alive


Mray10--I love what you said about how the song has become something communal at this point--I almost included something about that in my post but couldn't figure out how I wanted to word it, and I'm glad i didn't since you got it exactly right

Spived--I had heard that about kiss and never heard that song until now. That was really interesting to listen to since you can defintiely hear the influence, but at the same time Mike's version has sooooo much more feeling

and I never heard that promo mix, which was great just cuz it is always nice to hear a subtle variation on the song (The RVM mix is still my favorite version). This one actually sounds a lot like the way mike does the solo live. It was good but if this is the version that makes the song it isn't NEARLY as great a song

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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2007 6:57 pm 
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Alive is by far my all-time favorite song by any artist. Great lyrics with a good delivery, good music and an amazing solo to top it all off. Live it's off the charts. The crowd belting back the song at the band is always a highlight. 8)


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PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2007 9:03 am 
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Superb write-up as ususal, Stip. Without being too much of a “brown-noser” the write-ups and attempts at gleaning meanings from pj’s songs and lyrics (an in particular stip’s well thought out and well written pieces) were what kept me coming back to red mosquito as a lurker, and then sometime poster (although most my posts go in to the sports threads!).

My two-penneth on Ten: As a teenager growing up in the north of England, although living on the outskirts of a reasonable sized city, and a downtrodden one at that time (Manchester) my life was a pretty well-sheltered affair, by virtue of my parents values (now more appreciated as my children grow) and a move to a village at the further outskirts near the Pennine hills. It’s not that I wasn’t world-wary or that I was completely naïve, more that I was perhaps luckier than others of a working class upbringing and the worst of the world didn’t really affect me personally. As PJ came in to existence, I was starting to go to 6th form college (around 16yrs old) and spending much more of my life in the city.

The Alive single struck me because the story was so clearly told and heard, even if at first the incestual overtones didn’t hit you, the broken family aspect did. On the b-side were Once and Wash. They were like nothing I had personally heard before the subject matter being life on the edge of normality in all it’s forms instead of love/sex/partying (hair metal) or the devil (thrash etc).

PJ were playing in Manchester, February 1992, I had heard these 3 songs and had to go,Ten was only released 3 days after the gig in the UK, but even then, I knew the guys might become something more to me than other bands.

Ten was to turn my world upside down at the time, due to it’s timing, no other album could have had the effect as it corresponded with my eyes opening more to the world, politics, human rights etc. In Ten, not knowing the political landscape of the USA, the themes I heard and became aware of were the darker aspects of city life, and life in general – peoples rights, murder, incest, love-lost, death, drug use, suicide, anger, broken homes, rape, indifference, bullying – not easy subjects – but essential to me - I may not have been affected personally by all of these things, but I knew some who were. Pearl Jam were describing a city and all it’s inhabitants and the atmosphere it created around me was unlike anything else.

Like I say, it’s probably more down to impeccable timing due to my age and circumstances, as I was finding out life was not a bed of roses the whole time. Ten came along painting pictures of what I was learning and infused me and enthused me in a way no other album ever has, or could do again, now I’m old, married, with kids! It’s not my favourite album – vitalogy currently holds that mantle – but will forever have a place in my life, and as I listen to it, with a hint of nostalgia I can still recall those heady days of the early 90s.

Sorry for prattling on and getting all sentimental on you all. *sniff* :oops:

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PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2007 10:24 am 
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Thanks for that post. It eloquently describes your connection to Ten.

It seems that ALIVE is a song often used as background music during features about the "grunge" era, even though it may be the least "grungy" song recorded during that time. There is something so elemental and life-affirming about a chorus that proclaims "I'm alive" despite the dark subject matter of the verses.

All these years later, the song carries as much power as it ever did. Someone said earlier that it was the band's mission statement. If so, everything since has addressed what we can do with the fact that we're still alive. I was driving my daughter to a jazz band competition this morning. It was five o'clock in the morning, so were both quiet. She had her ipod on, so I asked what she was listening to, and, she had put ALIVE and I AM MINE back to back on the playlist.


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PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2007 12:23 pm 
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Quote:
if indifference was written today he would tell us that it makes a difference instead of leaving it to the listener).


To give proof to this statement: I haven’t listened to enough 2006 material. But I do know very much by heart that in 2005 he said a couple of times at the end of the song (for example Kitchener): thanks, it MAKES a lot of difference, you know

Quote:
When it's played live it is always, always the emotional high point of the show - it's the time when everyone comes together to marvel that after 17 years we're still here. It's always a beautiful moment.


Agreed 100%. Even more when you get the whole place pumping their fists in the air. Aaaaw, can’t wait!!! Copenhagen and Werchter will both be extra special if they play it.


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PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2007 1:51 pm 
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manchesterian wrote:
Superb write-up as ususal, Stip. Without being too much of a “brown-noser” the write-ups and attempts at gleaning meanings from pj’s songs and lyrics (an in particular stip’s well thought out and well written pieces) were what kept me coming back to red mosquito as a lurker, and then sometime poster (although most my posts go in to the sports threads!).

My two-penneth on Ten: As a teenager growing up in the north of England, although living on the outskirts of a reasonable sized city, and a downtrodden one at that time (Manchester) my life was a pretty well-sheltered affair, by virtue of my parents values (now more appreciated as my children grow) and a move to a village at the further outskirts near the Pennine hills. It’s not that I wasn’t world-wary or that I was completely naïve, more that I was perhaps luckier than others of a working class upbringing and the worst of the world didn’t really affect me personally. As PJ came in to existence, I was starting to go to 6th form college (around 16yrs old) and spending much more of my life in the city.

The Alive single struck me because the story was so clearly told and heard, even if at first the incestual overtones didn’t hit you, the broken family aspect did. On the b-side were Once and Wash. They were like nothing I had personally heard before the subject matter being life on the edge of normality in all it’s forms instead of love/sex/partying (hair metal) or the devil (thrash etc).

PJ were playing in Manchester, February 1992, I had heard these 3 songs and had to go,Ten was only released 3 days after the gig in the UK, but even then, I knew the guys might become something more to me than other bands.

Ten was to turn my world upside down at the time, due to it’s timing, no other album could have had the effect as it corresponded with my eyes opening more to the world, politics, human rights etc. In Ten, not knowing the political landscape of the USA, the themes I heard and became aware of were the darker aspects of city life, and life in general – peoples rights, murder, incest, love-lost, death, drug use, suicide, anger, broken homes, rape, indifference, bullying – not easy subjects – but essential to me - I may not have been affected personally by all of these things, but I knew some who were. Pearl Jam were describing a city and all it’s inhabitants and the atmosphere it created around me was unlike anything else.

Like I say, it’s probably more down to impeccable timing due to my age and circumstances, as I was finding out life was not a bed of roses the whole time. Ten came along painting pictures of what I was learning and infused me and enthused me in a way no other album ever has, or could do again, now I’m old, married, with kids! It’s not my favourite album – vitalogy currently holds that mantle – but will forever have a place in my life, and as I listen to it, with a hint of nostalgia I can still recall those heady days of the early 90s.

Sorry for prattling on and getting all sentimental on you all. *sniff* :oops:


great post :)

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PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2007 2:20 pm 
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Why Go

I have less to say about Why Go than the rest of the songs on the record as it is easily the least nuanced of all the tracks on Ten. It is pure anger, but unlike the straight ahead furious shrieking of a later song like Lukin there are some extra layers coloring it—frustration, indignation, and especially confusion (this may just be my tastes but I definitely prefer these vocals, as there is more texture to them).

Lyrically Why Go is a bit too straightforward for my tastes—Eddie usually tells his stories sideways, coming at them somewhat obliquely or with a degree of subtly not present here. But, like Alive, the lyrics are not = doing the heavy lifting here. Why Go is again about the vocals and the music.

Musically this is one of my favorite tracks on a record full of terrific instrumental work. This is dangerous, foreboding music, starting out with the hostile bass line exploding into the wall of angry guitars. You can hear the music pounding in the subject’s head as she carves her thoughts into the stone walls of her cell, giving her the strength to pierce the rock, and it only grows in intensity as she continues to ponder her fate—not only trapped, but violated by the people who are supposed to unconditionally love and accept her

Eddies vocals are angry throughout, but I love how there are moments where he mutes it slightly, when the anger is soften by her own confusion about how she got here and what, if anything, she can do to get herself out--especially during the first chorus, where the anger is secondary to her bewilderment at the start, with the rage building throughout the chorus until it reaches the fever pitch that it occupies during the rest of the song, giving the woman (and the listener) an outlet for their anger. The lyrics to Why Go are meant to be claustrophobic, but the song is explosive enough to destroy the walls of the cell.

Many of the choruses in Ten are simple (Release me, I’m still alive, Why go home) but the simplicity works in their favor—basic questions or declarations but delivered with so much weight, passion, and sympathy that they transport you right into the experiences of the character (in the same way that the word love is often trite unless you’re using it to describe your own feelings). I also love the ambiguity in the way that the chorus is delivered. The lyric is why go home (what is left for her there), but it also sounds like they are singing why go on—after a violation and betrayal this personal, what is left for her anywhere?

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PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2007 2:21 pm 
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that's my last one for a few days most likely

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PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2007 2:52 pm 
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stip, I think this is my favorite of the analyses you've done so far. You tease out and interpret every vocal nuance, every bit of instrumental underscoring.

It has struck me since I first discovered them how deeply sympathetic they are toward women, and how completely they nail the feminine subtleties in the emotions they describe. And how often it "feels" as though the protagonist of the song is female even when this is not specified. Then it struck me while I was reading your post that although the protagonists are female, the situations and emotions are universal. It just isn't the norm for men to express these types of emotions so openly. I'm sure that men feel all of these things, but it is easier to express them through a woman's perspective.

Similarly, in their songs, as you stated earlier, love is a more universal emotion than is normally observed in rock songs. Love is usually equated with sex in the normal rock song, but in their songs love often denotes "brotherly love" or love for mankind.


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PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2007 5:23 pm 
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SLH916 wrote:
stip, I think this is my favorite of the analyses you've done so far. You tease out and interpret every vocal nuance, every bit of instrumental underscoring.

It has struck me since I first discovered them how deeply sympathetic they are toward women, and how completely they nail the feminine subtleties in the emotions they describe. And how often it "feels" as though the protagonist of the song is female even when this is not specified. Then it struck me while I was reading your post that although the protagonists are female, the situations and emotions are universal. It just isn't the norm for men to express these types of emotions so openly. I'm sure that men feel all of these things, but it is easier to express them through a woman's perspective.

Similarly, in their songs, as you stated earlier, love is a more universal emotion than is normally observed in rock songs. Love is usually equated with sex in the normal rock song, but in their songs love often denotes "brotherly love" or love for mankind.


That's a really interesting insight. I, too, have always been impressed and influenced by Eddie's penchant for writing from a sympathetic female perspective. It's very interesting to think that part of his desire to write that way is to divorce himself somewhat and disguise what may be his own feelings in an environment (femininity) that is more commonly associated with those feelings.

It's also always impressed me, because it truly takes a certain courage to be a male lead singer/rock star and sing songs from a female perspective. It's such an Eddie thing to do that it almost doesn't seem remarkable but really it is. I had a friend in college who was impressed by the courage of the Counting Crows song "I Wish I Was a Girl" (brilliant song, actually), and I just thought, "But EV does that all the time."


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PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2007 5:26 pm 
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what in the world is a "brown-noser"?


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PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2007 5:39 pm 
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mray10 wrote:
SLH916 wrote:
stip, I think this is my favorite of the analyses you've done so far. You tease out and interpret every vocal nuance, every bit of instrumental underscoring.

It has struck me since I first discovered them how deeply sympathetic they are toward women, and how completely they nail the feminine subtleties in the emotions they describe. And how often it "feels" as though the protagonist of the song is female even when this is not specified. Then it struck me while I was reading your post that although the protagonists are female, the situations and emotions are universal. It just isn't the norm for men to express these types of emotions so openly. I'm sure that men feel all of these things, but it is easier to express them through a woman's perspective.

Similarly, in their songs, as you stated earlier, love is a more universal emotion than is normally observed in rock songs. Love is usually equated with sex in the normal rock song, but in their songs love often denotes "brotherly love" or love for mankind.


That's a really interesting insight. I, too, have always been impressed and influenced by Eddie's penchant for writing from a sympathetic female perspective. It's very interesting to think that part of his desire to write that way is to divorce himself somewhat and disguise what may be his own feelings in an environment (femininity) that is more commonly associated with those feelings.

It's also always impressed me, because it truly takes a certain courage to be a male lead singer/rock star and sing songs from a female perspective. It's such an Eddie thing to do that it almost doesn't seem remarkable but really it is. I had a friend in college who was impressed by the courage of the Counting Crows song "I Wish I Was a Girl" (brilliant song, actually), and I just thought, "But EV does that all the time."
I always see Ed as writing the women's point of view using his mother as the woman. Always a bit of the victim, made to feel small by others, finding strength only through endurance. It's nice that his characters nearly always overcome in the end but it would be nice if he could write from a different female character perspective a little more often, such as in Army Reserve. But even this female character feels a bit a victim of circumstances.


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