I know that the J Records deal was only for one record and after the utter failure of Pearl Jam , J Records will unlikely want to do business again...so who is the bands label??
Distribution on the last album was still Sony (GOD I MISS EPIC) And I understand that Warner is Distributing Gorge and the label is being listed as "Money Wrench" & sometimes "Rhino" so what is the deal??

A failure??!! WTF? The record sold more than the last 2 did, and worldwide better as well. If I'm not mistaken, it was also downloaded for free more. Either way, hardly a failure. After yrs and yrs of purposely staying out of the spotlight, this is where you'd expect them to be as far as sales. Do I wish they'd have sold more? Of course.........but definatly not a failure.

Until this free download bullshit stops, and it is WAY out of control, record sales will continue to fall for every band.

how was s/t an utter failure?

what was so good about epic?

does it really impact on that quality of records?

I download music for free. Sue me.

I don't think this statement was meant to be about the band's status as a popular act. It's just a numbers game.

It sold well.

But not anywhere on the level that J Records aims for and expects from artists, especially with as much as they put into promotion. J Records would only make money directly on US sales, with licensing earning them small increments from their overseas partners/subsidiaries. It's not uncommon for a mainstream label to need, even for a relatively low-maintenance rock band, sales of 500,000 or more to start turning a profit. This is part of the reason that people in the industry are always complaining about low profits, and it's also one of the reasons for the rise of indie labels and acts in the last 10 years. Eventually artists will have to realize that studio time isn't as expensive as it once was, and they could easily put these records they get almost no money for on their website for free download, go on tour, and skip the label altogether.



Anecdotal. There's no way to gauge this, and the only evidence that can really be looked to is people saying "Well I saw..." or "All the people I know..." Most statistics show that the likelihood an album will be downloaded increases comparative to its sales.



I agree. Some of my favorite artists never even made it to 50,000 copies, and a gold record is no kind of failure. But it's an industry, and for a company to be openly and loudly banking on a product and to put money into marketing it and not see significant product...in any business, that's a bit of a failure.



I don't see that it can be completely stopped. And, like I said, the only real problem about it I see is that everybody wants to do business as usual. Downloading only hurts an artist who might have sold a million copies. That's what, 1% of them? And being that big means you rake it in on tour anyway. The only people really hurt by downloading are labels, who in my mind are obsolete and useless.

it's "monkey wrench" and as far as i know it's PJ's own label.

yea but, relaly how much did j records put into promotion. Pearl jam didnt do THAT much more for this record

http://www.rhino.com/store/upcoming.lasso

i was talking about monkey wrench though. maybe they're working together?

Music downloading will never go away, technology is too advanced for it to stop, no matter how many broke college students and preteens those dipshits at the RIAA go after. Besides, as the esteemed fellow above said, it's the record companies that fear downloading. Bands can make their $ by touring and merch.

I don't feel like taking the time to look up all of J Records artist sales but I imagine that "Pearl Jam" sold right around where they thought it would. Based on the way rock n' roll sales are and Pearl Jam's record sales since 2000 they had to be thinking around 1,000,000 as a goal. They are well passed that world wide and around 600,000 here in America right? I would imagine Clive and J Records would be happy to continue being associated with Pearl Jam.

These are fair enough arguments. But, alot of these bands are established etc. If when PJ came out..........and the downloading was the same then, and TEN didn't sell nearly as well, PJ's career could very well have gone differently. Yes people download for free all the time, and it probably will never be stopped. I feel it's a problem..........plain and simple. I'm 36, and when I was 13, 14, 15 ,16, 17, 18, 19, 20 and so on yrs old......I paid for ALL my music......I still do. I pay for singles off of ITUNES......and I pay for albums from the stores. Is that shameful? Not at all. Downloading for free is. It's stealing period. What's the difference in downloading off the internet, or walking into a store, putting a CD in your pocket and walking out? The difference is you'd get caught in the store. For the one "poster" to say to me "SUE ME", well thats about the mentality I would expect.

It's funny how everybody figures.........it's just the labels losing out. An artist still gets about a dollar from each sold album. Profits from the albums also go towards touring, marketing etc.............take away the profits.......it affects the artist. This also makes it so much harder for new up and coming bands to get signed, because labels have lost money. It's one big circle, but as long as so many get their FREE music, they'll continue to be happy.

Whats the difference between downloading music for free and taping songs off the radio? recording the tapes for your friends? lending records to your buddies untill they are sick of listening to them? burning miced cds for your girlfriend? making tapes for your friends? etc... etc...etc...

Record ocmpanies hsould just stop signing shit maybe and bands should start making records and offer a product worth the 17 bucks.

By " failure " i mean in terms of quality... In My Opinion (mind you) Pearl Jam is the bands weakest/most juevenile effort sine the first two


By" Failure" i also mean that the albums inflated numbers were due to carefully crafted marketing scams i.e.
Pre-sales
limited edition versions
late delivery
gift with purchase versions
free show give-a-ways with purchases
retail version
late vinyl release


i personally purchased Five copies of that crap ass album when i only purchased One Beautiful Copy of Riot Act on Vinyl (a far superior album from quality to artwork)and One Perfect Riot Act Cd


ANd Even with all that "marketing effort" ....J records passed on working with them again??

That's what I mean by "I miss EPIC" ... Better management and the band put it's effort toward a better artist effort

I liked it better when there was more room between the band and the business

Whats the difference between downloading music for free and taping songs off the radio? recording the tapes for your friends? lending records to your buddies untill they are sick of listening to them? burning miced cds for your girlfriend? making tapes for your friends? etc... etc...etc...

Record ocmpanies hsould just stop signing shit maybe and bands should start making records and offer a product worth the 17 bucks.





I don't tape off the radio. I've rarely burrowed a record to a friend, cause they've owned pretty much what I've had. Never burned an album for a girlfriend, I've been with her for 15 and a half yrs..........mine is hers etc etc etc etc.

17 bucks???? Maybe you need to go somewhere else and buy your music. It's a rarity to pay more than 14 dollars for a new album. ITUNES is 99 cents a song.......go choose the one's you like.

This argument is pointless because most of the people who download for free do it selfishly and do not care. It's not about anything other than getting what you want for nothing. Maybe you should also go steal some gas........it's really expensive, and all your doing is supporting the "Big Corporations". How about clothes? Why not some food to, I mean all these things support "big business" in the end.

Hey, don't get me wrong, I still support my fav bands and go out and buy the albums. I'll buy music from bands like Sevendust, Cold, James Blunt and John Mayer without even hearing a single, because I know they're quality artists!
It's those bands that we all know have 1 or 2 good songs saddled with 10 pieces of shit on their album that I get for free and I don't feel any remorse. And the record companies KNOW that they're putting out crap. ABSOLUTE CRAP. Instead of building say, a U2, over the years, now companies are looking for the 1 big single, the hit that will carry for a few months and sell. Sometimes, even just putting out a CD based on the artists' persona, a la Paris Hilton, to sell. They put out this kinda SHIT and cry that the record industry is loosing over 20Million a year?? Cry me a river.

Could you give me a link to an article, a book, or something that says artists make a dollar off each CD sold? And is this all artists you're talking about, or just major label ones, or just indie ones...?

Also, can you name me an up-and-coming band that has not been signed due to downloaded music? Better yet, can you find me one unsigned band that has explicitly come out against downloading music because they want to get signed someday? I'd just like to see some proof of this stuff actually happening. Until then it's just speculation.

congratulations, youre the only one in the world who has never done those things. SLAP HANDS!

and 14.99 for a new release, thats still way too much. The onyl reason its cheap on i tunes is cause you dont get a physcial cd, and rarely get a booklet.

I dont want to steal gas and food or clothing.

I would rather send a check for 60 bucks to pete droge though, thanks, guy.

It has been said a few times but I too would like to comment on how stupid that "utter failure" comment was. A gold record (500,000 copies) is nothing to scoff at. Yes, current US sales are probably around the 600,000 range and worldwide the album has sold approx. 1.7 million copies.

Plus, the album received widespread critical acclaim (an example being the Rolling Stone cover which declared "THE BEST PEARL JAM IN 10 YEARS")

But back to the original question. Even if a band is recording on their own record label, getting the CD into music stores accross the country is an entirely different matter. What often happens is that a record label (example Monkey Wrench) will enter into a distribution deal with a distribution company (Warner) to have the distributor sell their music.

The distribution company has contracts will stores nationwide (e.g. BestBuy) and the distributor is the entity who actually responsible for the album ending up in the store you are shopping at. The the distributor then takes a cut of the profits from each album sold and the remaining balance gets paid to the record label.

The way the music business is structured, it is virtually impossible for a record label to get its albums out to the masses without the help of a distribution company (unless you opt for purely digital distribution) Most retail chains and record stores do not deal directly with record labels.

So I believe this one is on the band's own label, MonkeyWrench but they are using Warner for distribution.

Can you prove opposite?

I can't give an article. I have 3 friends signed by labels. They have told me they receive basically 1 dollar from an album. It's not alot.........but it adds up. Yes.....this is just me telling you.........maybe you should look it up somewhere. I trust my friends wouldn't lie about it, otherwise, they would say something to the affect of ...."Hey! I make 5 BUCKS off an album"! Fuck. These are not major labels, but my one friend who is signed knows some of the "Larger" artists, and it's similar............only their "burrowing" power from the major labels far exceed his.