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 Post subject: Re: A guided tour through No Code: Lukin
PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 9:34 pm 
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SLH916 wrote:
dirtyfrank0705 wrote:
Hey people.

Sorry about the delays - between a hectic summer personally and some problems on RM, this thread has taken forever to be fully realized. I see that some of you have posted your own reviews of the 4 remaining songs, which I have not read yet. I still plan on finishing this thread very soon. I'm putting my final thoughts together for Present Tense. I'll go back and read SLH's Present Tense and the I'm Open review after I finish with my own. I don't want to be repetitious, but I also don't want someone else's opinion shaping my original opinion for this thread. I am, however, happy to see that there are some devoted fans of No Code. I've never loved the album more than I do at this very moment.

Frank, it's so nice that you're back. We were lost without you.


Haha, right. I suppose there wasn't nearly enough Ten bashing in my absence. :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: A guided tour through No Code: Lukin
PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2007 12:50 pm 
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The posts that were made in your absense were all pretty strong but if you wanted to finish this Frank you should go ahead. We can always backtrack and this thread was your baby

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 Post subject: Re: A guided tour through No Code: Present Tense
PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 7:37 pm 
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Present Tense

After the fast fury of Lukin comes No Code's centerpiece, Present Tense. Here, we re-visit themes touched on in earlier songs: spirituality (Sometimes), living for today (Who You Are), the comfort of friendship (Off He Goes), etc. If Sometimes is the starter song that stands for everything No Code is about, then we can call Present Tense the thematic bookend. The following three songs after Present Tense certainly have their place in the album, but Present Tense is final explicit explanation of what No Code means and how the listener should hear it.

The lyrics begin with the tree symbol, a callback to In My Tree. But the two songs differ; In My Tree offers a narrator reflecting on his own life, while Present Tense offers a narrator trying to teach someone else what he has learned, and hopes for the subject to learn it as well.

"Do you see the way that tree bends?
Does it inspire?
Leaning out to catch the sun's rays
A lesson to be applied"

The tree stands not only as a symbol, but also gives a beautiful visual. Part of the brilliance of the visual rests on how the listener sees this tree. Do you see a tree with no leaves on the branches, begging for light and growth, or do you see a big, bushy tree with beautiful leaves? Also, let's not forget that the narrator doesn't say that the branches are bending. The whole tree is bending. It's not one particular branch, or small part of the tree, reaching for the light. It's the whole damn thing. The lesson begins by telling us that if we're gonna reach for a better life, we have to do so 100%. We have to put our whole selves out in the open to assure any growth.

The second verse also mentions light, but in a more abstract way. The narrator wants to know if his friend believes in the afterlife by asking if he/she believes we'll ascend off into the light. Once again, Ed uses the same symbol and it has two entirely different meanings. This time, the light isn't just a positive disposition - it's the afterlife. The symbol of light goes from the physical to the metaphysical in two simple verses. The light also represents hope in both instances. Both of these verses, really, are quite hopeful. The narrator sounds so pretty while trying to help his friend find some comfort and tranquility in this life.

"It seems that needlessly it's getting harder
To find an approach on a way to live
Are you getting something out of this
All encompassing trip?"

The first part of this pre-chorus is chock full of empathy. The narrator knows that sometimes life is just fucked up, and we're never really given a reason why. But again, he asks a question: are we taking something from life? Can we find even a glimmer of light that shines to guide us down the path, or are we just giving up? The narrator wouldn't ask this question unless he knew that there are indeed good things to extract from our time here. The sun is shining somewhere, and it's our duty to find it for ourselves.

The narrator then becomes a bit confrontational, in both the words he sings in the chorus as well as how Ed delivers them. His troubled friend, much like the antagonist of Lukin, needs some tough love. He/she mires in recluse, reliving the past (or, redigesting - what a great, loaded verb). What's clever about the chorus is a slight change between the first and the second.

1st chorus: You're the only one who can forgive yourself
2nd chorus: You're the only one who cannot forgive yourself

Can and cannot are opposites, but they end up meaning the same thing within the context of the lyric. The narrator's friend dwells on something that everyone else can forgive, but for whatever reason, he/she won't. It's almost a self-obsession that borders on self-hatred. All the pieces are there for this person to live a life, and the narrator boldly lets him know that. Really, what it all comes down to is this: there is today. That's it. "Makes much more sense to live in the present tense." Look outside, man. There's a beautiful world right before your eyes. And that world doesn't care about the things you did. It doesn't care about the things you will do. It only cares about what you're doing right now. Come to terms with your past and today isn't nearly as scary as you may think.

All these words and ideas are set to a gorgeous, clean guitar. But after the narrator is done preaching, the rest of the band kicks in accompanied by Ed's chanting. He may be singing actual words, or he may not be. It doesn't matter. It's all about the energy here. He's passing it along to his friend in need, and boy does he need it. Then during the outro, the clean guitar comes back, blissfully blessing the narrator's friend with beauty. It assures us that somehow, someday, some way, he'll be all right. Hope has come full circle, and once that seed of hope is planted, growth is inevitable.

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 Post subject: Re: A guided tour through No Code: Present Tense
PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 7:45 pm 
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dirtyfrank0705 wrote:
Present Tense.
Wow. Great fuckin' write up.


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 Post subject: Re: A guided tour through No Code: Lukin
PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 10:49 pm 
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SLH916 wrote:
I think that Frank has probably abandoned this thread, but I didn't want to let it die without some mention being made about PRESENT TENSE. I can't treat it with the same kind of depth that Frank has done on the previous songs, but I do feel that in many ways PRESENT TENSE is where all of the songs that come before it lead. The previous nine tracks have all dealt with the examination of oneself, one's life and one's interactions with others. PT is the end of the road. It is the blueprint for putting the past in context and moving forward. In many ways, No Code ends here. The remaining songs are a bonus.

It begins quietly enough, with that distinctive intro, the ringing deep tones anchoring the celestial high notes. The vocal is quiet and subdued, fitting the questioning nature of the lyrics. Asking us first to take a lesson from the natural world,

"Do you see the way that tree bends?
Does it inspire?
Leaning out to catch the sun's rays
A lesson to be applied
,"

then take a look at ourselves and our place in the world,

"Have you ideas on how this life ends?
Checked your hands and studied the lines
."

Then the song asks the question,

"Have you the belief that the road ahead, ascends off into the light?"

The answer of course is that it

"Makes much more sense, to live in the present tense."

With that the song builds to an exhilarating climax before decelerating with a series of repeated, otherworldly guitar arppeggios and returning to the opening guitar figure. It's almost like going an a journey and being returned safe and sound to your front door.

There are guitars all over the place on this song. They blend into one smooth, cohesive listening unit that has almost a symphonic feel. A couple of violins, a cello, maybe a bassoon to take over the main theme might have been very nice. I really love this song, and it's astonishing to me how well they pull it off live.


I liked your review of Present Tense. Looks like we both interpret the song about the same way. Really nice post. :D

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 Post subject: Re: A guided tour through No Code: Present Tense
PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 1:08 am 
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Thanks Frank,

I enjoyed your analysis as well.

I think that we do basically agree. I don't necessarily think that "ascending into the light" refers specifically to the afterlife although it may very well. I think that it may refer simply to whether the listener has an optimistic attitude toward the future. It's a poetic phrase, and I like it very much.

The HABIT, RED MOSQUITO and LUKIN trilogy that precede it give PRESENT TENSE an even more epic feeling. I love that.


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 Post subject: Re: A guided tour through No Code: Present Tense
PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 1:53 am 
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SLH916 wrote:
Thanks Frank,

I enjoyed your analysis as well.

I think that we do basically agree. I don't necessarily think that "ascending into the light" refers specifically to the afterlife although it may very well. I think that it may refer simply to whether the listener has an optimistic attitude toward the future. It's a poetic phrase, and I like it very much.



I'm with SLH on that--I've always taken it to be a general optimism about what is ahead, rather than a reference to an afterlife, which is a bit defeatist in my view. The point is that you need to figure out a way to make NOW work for you--the after life is the future tense, and relying on the future for justice and happiness marks a surrender to the present that this song (and much of their catalogue in general) is trying to overcome

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 Post subject: Re: A guided tour through No Code: Present Tense
PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 7:12 am 
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Fair enough, Stip and SLH, but then how do you explain the question "Have you ideas on how these life ends" that prefaces the line about ascending off into the light? I would agree that its optimistic either way, but that initial question is what leads me to believe that there is, at least on the periphery, a question of spirituality and beliefs.

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 Post subject: Re: A guided tour through No Code: Present Tense
PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 1:18 pm 
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dirtyfrank0705 wrote:
Fair enough, Stip and SLH, but then how do you explain the question "Have you ideas on how these life ends" that prefaces the line about ascending off into the light? I would agree that its optimistic either way, but that initial question is what leads me to believe that there is, at least on the periphery, a question of spirituality and beliefs.



Hmmm--that is a good point. Could he mean that lyric negatively? Are you reduced to hoping for an afterlife or looking for fortune tellers to assure you that everything will work out in the end instead of making it work for yourself?



at any rate


BRING ON MANKIND!

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 Post subject: Re: A guided tour through No Code: Present Tense
PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 2:08 pm 
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dirtyfrank0705 wrote:
Fair enough, Stip and SLH, but then how do you explain the question "Have you ideas on how these life ends" that prefaces the line about ascending off into the light? I would agree that its optimistic either way, but that initial question is what leads me to believe that there is, at least on the periphery, a question of spirituality and beliefs.

Here is the complete verse:

Have you ideas on how this life ends?
Checked your hands and studied the lines
Have you the belief that the road ahead, ascends off into the light?
Seems that needlessly it's getting harder
To find an approach and a way to live
Are we getting something out of this all-encompassing trip?


I believe that the first question, "Have you ideas on how this life ends?" asks you to question, in this moment, how you will view the way that you have lived your life when you come to the end of it. Will you look back full of regrets or will you find yourself at peace in the end? The rest of the verse discusses how you can make that life a meaningful experience. The "road ahead" referred to is not a "stairway to heaven," it is the road that is this life, here and now. Is it "ascending into the light?" This is immediately followed by the "needlessly it's getting harder/to find an approach and a way to live" line. This implies that the "road" is getting harder. The answer to all of these questions lies in the living in the present tense philosophy. Making the here and now count, not worrying about an afterlife or even an uncertain future.

I love the line about checking your hands and studying the lines. It injects such a personal touch into such a broad philosophical discussion that could have been unbearably self-conscious.


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 Post subject: Re: A guided tour through No Code: Present Tense
PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 6:31 pm 
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stip wrote:
SLH916 wrote:
Thanks Frank,

I enjoyed your analysis as well.

I think that we do basically agree. I don't necessarily think that "ascending into the light" refers specifically to the afterlife although it may very well. I think that it may refer simply to whether the listener has an optimistic attitude toward the future. It's a poetic phrase, and I like it very much.



I'm with SLH on that--I've always taken it to be a general optimism about what is ahead, rather than a reference to an afterlife, which is a bit defeatist in my view. The point is that you need to figure out a way to make NOW work for you--the after life is the future tense, and relying on the future for justice and happiness marks a surrender to the present that this song (and much of their catalogue in general) is trying to overcome



I think I agree with Frank about this one. I've always taken the line to be about death.

Have you ideas on how this life ends?
Checked your hands and studied the lines

Have you thought about how your life will end? Looked at yourself and realized its time?
Have you the belief that the road ahead, ascends off into the light?
The road ahead= life/the future for this person. Where do you think your future (death) takes you? To an afterlife of some sort? Or, more specifically, is the road your on leading you quickly to your death? No matter what death does entail.

To me, this song has always been the story of someone desperately extending a hand to a (very) depressed friend. He/she has done something in the past that they just cannot let go of. They feel so guilty over whatever it was, that sometimes they don't even seem to want to live. The narrarator sees this, and realizes that the past cannot be changed. And as long as this person continues to dwell in the past, they are missing life as it goes right by them. They are making no effort to be a part of life, too preoccupied in this bitter spiral of self-loathing to notice that the world has not stopped. The narrarator gives the priceless advice to forgive yourself and live in the now, the present tense. Otherwise, he/she is doomed to never move in, and perhaps even take his/her own life.


Thats my take anyway. I was kinda rushed, I gotta run out the door to school, so I may edit later.

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 Post subject: Re: A guided tour through No Code: Present Tense
PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 7:11 pm 
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"Have you the belief that the road ahead, ascends off into the light?"

I think by the use of the word "belief" we have to presume that Ed is talking about a spiritual afterlife. I think this goes together very strongly with the forgiveness theme of the song. And reinforced at the end with the part about " you are the only one who cannot forgive yourself". This opens the song up to having a spiritual meaning.


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 Post subject: Re: A guided tour through No Code: Present Tense
PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 7:39 pm 
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can any of us truly say that we believe Ed meant one or the other?
he writes his lyrics with such ambiguity and so many different interpretations that I think both fit perfectly...do you believe that there is a better future for you...whether it means life becoming more positive (light) or just death not being such a bad thing and in fact a good one if you believe in the afterlife (light)...

we could debate all day (not that thats a bad thing) but in the end everyone will still be right :D

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 Post subject: Re: A guided tour through No Code: Present Tense
PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 8:20 pm 
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noaheb wrote:
can any of us truly say that we believe Ed meant one or the other?
he writes his lyrics with such ambiguity and so many different interpretations that I think both fit perfectly...do you believe that there is a better future for you...whether it means life becoming more positive (light) or just death not being such a bad thing and in fact a good one if you believe in the afterlife (light)...

we could debate all day (not that thats a bad thing) but in the end everyone will still be right :D


Of course this is all our opinion--that goes without saying--but some opinions can still have more support than others. if someone argued that betterman was a romantic song and good for a couple to dance too at their wedding it is their opinion, but I'd be pretty confident saying that they missed the meaning of the song

having said that--the kind of nuance at stake here is probably not one of those times, although the discussion is still interesting

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 Post subject: Re: A guided tour through No Code: Present Tense
PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 8:38 pm 
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stip wrote:
noaheb wrote:
can any of us truly say that we believe Ed meant one or the other?
he writes his lyrics with such ambiguity and so many different interpretations that I think both fit perfectly...do you believe that there is a better future for you...whether it means life becoming more positive (light) or just death not being such a bad thing and in fact a good one if you believe in the afterlife (light)...

we could debate all day (not that thats a bad thing) but in the end everyone will still be right :D


Of course this is all our opinion--that goes without saying--but some opinions can still have more support than others. if someone argued that betterman was a romantic song and good for a couple to dance too at their wedding it is their opinion, but I'd be pretty confident saying that they missed the meaning of the song

yes, but would you be willing to tell the bride and groom that on their special day? :?
wonder how many times thats happened...

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 Post subject: Re: A guided tour through No Code: Present Tense
PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 8:51 pm 
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stip wrote:
noaheb wrote:
can any of us truly say that we believe Ed meant one or the other?
he writes his lyrics with such ambiguity and so many different interpretations that I think both fit perfectly...do you believe that there is a better future for you...whether it means life becoming more positive (light) or just death not being such a bad thing and in fact a good one if you believe in the afterlife (light)...

we could debate all day (not that thats a bad thing) but in the end everyone will still be right :D


Of course this is all our opinion--that goes without saying--but some opinions can still have more support than others. if someone argued that betterman was a romantic song and good for a couple to dance too at their wedding it is their opinion, but I'd be pretty confident saying that they missed the meaning of the song

having said that--the kind of nuance at stake here is probably not one of those times, although the discussion is still interesting

A really good discussion.

PRESENT TENSE is so centered in the here and now that I choose not to believe that speculation about an afterlife is a part of it. The theme is not contemplation, forgiveness, suicide or any of these things. It is about finding a way to live every moment to its fullest. That includes forgiving one's self and moving on, and making every attempt to following one's conscious, so that peace is what you find when this life is done. The song loses its power if all of these other issues are superimposed.

stip, you and I are sympatico on this one.


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 Post subject: Re: A guided tour through No Code: Present Tense
PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 9:45 pm 
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noaheb wrote:
stip wrote:
noaheb wrote:
can any of us truly say that we believe Ed meant one or the other?
he writes his lyrics with such ambiguity and so many different interpretations that I think both fit perfectly...do you believe that there is a better future for you...whether it means life becoming more positive (light) or just death not being such a bad thing and in fact a good one if you believe in the afterlife (light)...

we could debate all day (not that thats a bad thing) but in the end everyone will still be right :D


Of course this is all our opinion--that goes without saying--but some opinions can still have more support than others. if someone argued that betterman was a romantic song and good for a couple to dance too at their wedding it is their opinion, but I'd be pretty confident saying that they missed the meaning of the song

yes, but would you be willing to tell the bride and groom that on their special day? :?
wonder how many times thats happened...


No, but that's because it is possible to be right and not be a dick :)

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 Post subject: Re: A guided tour through No Code: Present Tense
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 5:53 pm 
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I brought this thread back because I wasn't sure if Frank had ever commented on MANKIND in the context of No Code. I quite enjoy it as a song although it does sound a little odd on No Code.


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 Post subject: Re: A guided tour through No Code: Present Tense
PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 8:16 pm 
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This is an amazing tune, there's no doubt about it.
I tend to think, however, as is the case with most of Ed's lyrics, people tend to over analyze the meaning.

This verse:

Have you ideas on how this life ends?
Checked your hands and studied the lines
Have you the belief that the road ahead, ascends off into the light?
Seems that needlessly it's getting harder
To find an approach and a way to live
Are we getting something out of this all-encompassing trip?

...is fairly straightforward if you ask me.
It's an agnostic/atheist pondering the meaning of his life (or life in general).
If you truly believe that we're just an evolutionary accident and that life ends with nothing...certainly there are times when this thought has to trouble you.
The narrator is looking for an epiphany, but doesn't have one... the "into the light" question is rhetorical.

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 Post subject: Re: A guided tour through No Code: Present Tense
PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 8:18 pm 
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Man in Black wrote:
This is an amazing tune, there's no doubt about it.
I tend to think, however, as is the case with most of Ed's lyrics, people tend to over analyze the meaning.

This verse:

Have you ideas on how this life ends?
Checked your hands and studied the lines
Have you the belief that the road ahead, ascends off into the light?
Seems that needlessly it's getting harder
To find an approach and a way to live
Are we getting something out of this all-encompassing trip?

...is fairly straightforward if you ask me.
It's an agnostic/atheist pondering the meaning of his life (or life in general).
If you truly believe that we're just an evolutionary accident and that life ends with nothing...certainly there are times when this thought has to trouble you.
The narrator is looking for an epiphany, but doesn't have one... the "into the light" question is rhetorical.

MiB, which is your favorite album, or do you just like some individual songs?


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