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 Post subject: Re: A guided tour of Vitalogy: last exit
PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 9:29 pm 
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Man in Black wrote:
Angus wrote:
Isaac Turner wrote:
Also, it's yet mentioned, but Last Exit I believe is a 5/4 time measure. Non 4/4 (or 4/2, for the oddballs!)time signatures are pschologically proven not to sound as appealing, which is another interesting tidbit (the exception to this is the Waltz, which correct me if I'm wrong is 3/4; name the last top 10 song with a Waltz time signature? It doesn't cross-over to the popular audience).


the Amélie Poulain soundtrack is very popular over here. And if I'm not mistaken (I have very vague memories of music theory lessons), that's 3/4.


3/4 (and 6/8) is fairly common.

El Paso.
Norwegian Wood.
Limelight.
Everybody Hurts.

Interesting list:
http://aufrecht.org/songs/?page=7&orderby=time%2casc

arent there pj songs in 3/4 or 6/8? elderly woman? i am mine?

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 Post subject: Re: A guided tour of Vitalogy: last exit
PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 9:32 pm 
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stip wrote:
maybe mray10 but this still overlooks the fact that Vitalogy spawned a few mega hits nevertheless. Maybe vitalogy was odd enough to prevent people from buying the next record sight unseen, but the real killer here was still who you are. Vitalogy just took away the benefit of the doubt


I actually think your point fits in my theory. Vitalogy gets additional record sales well after the initial release from consumers who aren't generally PJ fans. But those fans who were turned on to buy the album because of a Betterman or a Corduroy were freaked out by a dark record with all kinds of weird shit going on, thus guaranteeing they would not be buying No Code.


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 Post subject: Re: A guided tour of Vitalogy: last exit
PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 9:34 pm 
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stip wrote:
maybe mray10 but this still overlooks the fact that Vitalogy spawned a few mega hits nevertheless. Maybe vitalogy was odd enough to prevent people from buying the next record sight unseen, but the real killer here was still who you are. Vitalogy just took away the benefit of the doubt


Man, ya cannot concede it was Vitalogy...

The mega-hits were in spite of Vitalogy, not because of it. The fact the highest ranking PJ song is Last Kiss and hit the charts in 1999 AFTER Yield indicates it wasn't so much "Ed" or "grunge" or "Pearl Jam" or whatever. It was the absence of a palapable pop song, which No Code did not have nor Yield. The only reason Vitalogy APPEARS to have done so well is because of the Vs hype, and two singles.

In reality, Vitalogy is what No Code is characterized as. It was NOT Who You Are. To quote myself,

Isaac Turner wrote:
62strat wrote:
But i think if Hail Hail was the single, smile, red mosquito....

Their career may have been a tad different...


I'm of two minds on this:

On the one hand, Hail Hail would have aided initial album sales and thereby bumping the 366,000 up probably by about 500,000 (half a million) to match the previous albums debuts around 900,000.

On the other hand, I'm not sure if it would have continued to sale; I think not, solely because there really are no more songs on the album which would have classified as "modern rock singles"

Who You Are as the single signified the same PJ style of "Fuck You" to their casual fans-- another slap in the face, "we won't do what you want" and that is what Ed wanted it to do. If it wasn't a single, fans would skip it on the album and not give it a second thought. But they wouldn't have anything else to turn to to satiate the need for a Betterman, or a Daughter. I don't think their career would have looked too much different.


Last edited by Isaac Turner on Tue Dec 11, 2007 9:38 pm, edited 5 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: A guided tour of Vitalogy: Opening thoughts
PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 9:35 pm 
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Isaac Turner wrote:
mray10 wrote:
Contrary to what Stip said about not knowing anyone who didn't like Vitalogy, I knew very few people who really liked it.

I had several close friends who were as passionate about PJ as I was at that time, and they were all turned off by the album. In retrospect what all their issues boiled down to were that Vitalogy is pretty much Eddie's record. If you loved Pearl Jam because of Stone Gossard's Ten-era riffs, there's not a lot to fall in love with here. Plus, PJ were getting to be past their moment. I was in junior high when PJ hit but high school by the time Vitalogy came out. A lot of big PJ fans were moving on to the new 'alternative' acts.

Then there were my friends who bought or listened to Vitalogy just because PJ was big, or because they heard Betterman and liked it. These people were never going to like this record and that's even before they looked at the packaging. It's a demanding record, a fan's record. Vitalogy sold 877,000 copies in its first week. First week sales mostly have to do with the first single and the album that came before. No Code only sold 366,000 copies in its first week. My argument is that many of those 400,000 had decided Vitalogy was a little too weird and they weren't going to rush right out and buy anything new from Pearl Jam. No Code is responsible for its lackluster sales subsequent to that.


FTW

GREAT point about Stone Gossard composed songs vs. Eddie Vedder ones

One friend sold me his Vitalogy for a Big Mac (mine had gotten scratched up). Another threw his way cause the Satan's Beds images were alarming. Another was deeply perturbed by the Satan's Bed graphic and pledged not to listen to a song with such scary photos.


not a Tool fan, I'm guessing


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 Post subject: Re: A guided tour of Vitalogy: Opening thoughts
PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 9:39 pm 
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mray10 wrote:
Isaac Turner wrote:

GREAT point about Stone Gossard composed songs vs. Eddie Vedder ones

One friend sold me his Vitalogy for a Big Mac (mine had gotten scratched up). Another threw his way cause the Satan's Beds images were alarming. Another was deeply perturbed by the Satan's Bed graphic and pledged not to listen to a song with such scary photos.


not a Tool fan, I'm guessing


Became a counselor for church members :D


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 Post subject: Re: A guided tour of Vitalogy: Opening thoughts
PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 9:41 pm 
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Isaac Turner wrote:
mray10 wrote:
Isaac Turner wrote:

GREAT point about Stone Gossard composed songs vs. Eddie Vedder ones

One friend sold me his Vitalogy for a Big Mac (mine had gotten scratched up). Another threw his way cause the Satan's Beds images were alarming. Another was deeply perturbed by the Satan's Bed graphic and pledged not to listen to a song with such scary photos.


not a Tool fan, I'm guessing


Became a counselor for church members :D


and still tells the story about the day he turned away from Satan


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 Post subject: Re: A guided tour of Vitalogy: last exit
PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 9:46 pm 
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Isaac Turner wrote:
FloydTheBarber wrote:
Isaac Turner wrote:
FloydTheBarber wrote:
"Kiss from a Rose" by Seal
"Scarborough Fair" by SimonAndGarfunkel
"Satellite" by Dave Matthews
"Ice Cream" by Sarah McLachlan
"Something in Red" by Lorrie Morgan
"A New Day Has Come" by Celine Dion


Very informative sir.

But also kinda telling...

So these are the worlds 3/4 hits... :D


Its bugging me because I remember hearing a song recently and thinking god damn its a waltz but I can't think of it now. Last Exit may well be the only song in popular which is both in 3/4 and good.


I thought it was 5/4


off the top of my head
Pearl Jam songs in 3/4 or 6/8:

Deep
Release
Oceans
Elderly Woman
Blood (chorus)
Nothingman
Red Mosquito
Low Light
Rival
I Am Mine
Come Back

I'm sure there's more

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 Post subject: Re: A guided tour of Vitalogy: last exit
PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 10:38 pm 
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Isaac Turner wrote:
stip wrote:
maybe mray10 but this still overlooks the fact that Vitalogy spawned a few mega hits nevertheless. Maybe vitalogy was odd enough to prevent people from buying the next record sight unseen, but the real killer here was still who you are. Vitalogy just took away the benefit of the doubt


Man, ya cannot concede it was Vitalogy...

The mega-hits were in spite of Vitalogy, not because of it. The fact the highest ranking PJ song is Last Kiss and hit the charts in 1999 AFTER Yield indicates it wasn't so much "Ed" or "grunge" or "Pearl Jam" or whatever. It was the absence of a palapable pop song, which No Code did not have nor Yield. The only reason Vitalogy APPEARS to have done so well is because of the Vs hype, and two singles.

In reality, Vitalogy is what No Code is characterized as. It was NOT Who You Are. To quote myself,

Isaac Turner wrote:
62strat wrote:
But i think if Hail Hail was the single, smile, red mosquito....

Their career may have been a tad different...


I'm of two minds on this:

On the one hand, Hail Hail would have aided initial album sales and thereby bumping the 366,000 up probably by about 500,000 (half a million) to match the previous albums debuts around 900,000.

On the other hand, I'm not sure if it would have continued to sale; I think not, solely because there really are no more songs on the album which would have classified as "modern rock singles"

Who You Are as the single signified the same PJ style of "Fuck You" to their casual fans-- another slap in the face, "we won't do what you want" and that is what Ed wanted it to do. If it wasn't a single, fans would skip it on the album and not give it a second thought. But they wouldn't have anything else to turn to to satiate the need for a Betterman, or a Daughter. I don't think their career would have looked too much different.


I just posted this in the other thread where you quoted this post (got there first) but there were radio friendly songs post vitalogy that could have been hits. I think we're overestimating just how challenging some of this stuff was/is. Faithful, In Hiding, GTF, probably brain of J, ATY if they wanted it, just on yield alone.

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 Post subject: Re: A guided tour of Vitalogy: last exit
PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 11:05 pm 
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stip wrote:
Isaac Turner wrote:
62strat wrote:
But i think if Hail Hail was the single, smile, red mosquito....

Their career may have been a tad different...


I'm of two minds on this:

On the one hand, Hail Hail would have aided initial album sales and thereby bumping the 366,000 up probably by about 500,000 (half a million) to match the previous albums debuts around 900,000.

On the other hand, I'm not sure if it would have continued to sale; I think not, solely because there really are no more songs on the album which would have classified as "modern rock singles"



I just posted this in the other thread where you quoted this post (got there first) but there were radio friendly songs post vitalogy that could have been hits. I think we're overestimating just how challenging some of this stuff was/is. Faithful, In Hiding, GTF, probably brain of J, ATY if they wanted it, just on yield alone.



My response is in the Romantization thread also. In sum, I cannot buy a theory that all these songs would have been hits if it weren't for outside forces. Last Kiss functions as the counter to the "People were tired of Pearl Jam" theory because it came out in 1999 AFTER Yield. The songs you listed don't contain whatever it is that Last Kiss, Betterman, and Daughter do.


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 Post subject: Re: A guided tour of Vitalogy: last exit
PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 11:12 pm 
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Isaac Turner wrote:
stip wrote:
Isaac Turner wrote:
62strat wrote:
But i think if Hail Hail was the single, smile, red mosquito....

Their career may have been a tad different...


I'm of two minds on this:

On the one hand, Hail Hail would have aided initial album sales and thereby bumping the 366,000 up probably by about 500,000 (half a million) to match the previous albums debuts around 900,000.

On the other hand, I'm not sure if it would have continued to sale; I think not, solely because there really are no more songs on the album which would have classified as "modern rock singles"



I just posted this in the other thread where you quoted this post (got there first) but there were radio friendly songs post vitalogy that could have been hits. I think we're overestimating just how challenging some of this stuff was/is. Faithful, In Hiding, GTF, probably brain of J, ATY if they wanted it, just on yield alone.



My response is in the Romantization thread also. In sum, I cannot buy a theory that all these songs would have been hits if it weren't for outside forces. Last Kiss functions as the counter to the "People were tired of Pearl Jam" theory because it came out in 1999 AFTER Yield. The songs you listed don't contain whatever it is that Last Kiss, Betterman, and Daughter do.

well daughter was a single so that doesn't really apply here. did you mean Elderly woman?

last Kiss is an interesting outlier. But my parents both loved that song and they are not pearl jam fans in the slightest. Pearl Jam never really released anything quite like that, and it was a fun campy yet poiginant sing along. I can't explain last kiss other than to say it was something of a bizzare fluke

I gave my take on your challenge in the other thread--two things. At this point Pearl jam was no longer as publically important as they were and so a movement like this is less likely to happen (back then the radio HAD to play pearl jam, and if they didn't like the songs they were given they'd pick the best ones themselves). Also those songs just aren't as good. They could have been hits if they had been pushed, perhaps, but there was nothing about them that demanded they be heard

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 Post subject: Re: A guided tour of Vitalogy: last exit
PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 11:30 pm 
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stip wrote:

last Kiss is an interesting outlier. But my parents both loved that song and they are not pearl jam fans in the slightest. Pearl Jam never really released anything quite like that, and it was a fun campy yet poiginant sing along. I can't explain last kiss other than to say it was something of a bizzare fluke

I gave my take on your challenge in the other thread--two things. At this point Pearl jam was no longer as publically important as they were and so a movement like this is less likely to happen (back then the radio HAD to play pearl jam, and if they didn't like the songs they were given they'd pick the best ones themselves). Also those songs just aren't as good. They could have been hits if they had been pushed, perhaps, but there was nothing about them that demanded they be heard


Calling it a fluke undermine's the potency of the fact that in 1999 after everyone was over PJ, they still produced their highest ranking single.

I'm of the belief that songs by major bands which adhere to radio/industry standards for a single will get radio play despite of what others want, don't want or think they "want." Radio is a business, and stations play what they think people will want to hear so they can increase the price of advertisements and thus they adhere to a formula.

Last Kiss's success confirms this. Pearl Jam stopped putting songs on their album that adhered to industry standards for singles-- thus WHY nothing made it on the radio after Vitalogy for any extended period of time after the "promo" obligatory listen. I disagree with you that it was because there wasn't a demand for "Pearl Jam." If that was the case, Creed would not have existed because nobody would be interested in listening. And I disagree it was because the band and Sony Epic's marketing teams didn't push hard enough. There was a HUGE Yield promotion to fly to Hawaii and Australia to see the band on the modern rock/alternative station where I lived at the time (4th largest US city). The album was pushed, but it lacked legitimate "singles."


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 Post subject: Re: A guided tour of Vitalogy: last exit
PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 11:49 pm 
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so do you think there were just no radio friendly songs on the record?

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 Post subject: Re: A guided tour of Vitalogy: last exit
PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 11:56 pm 
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stip wrote:
so do you think there were just no radio friendly songs on the record?


Yep, not by modern rock radio standards of the time. That's not to say many of the songs don't contain some elements of "singles," but other elements in the songs disqualified each of them.


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 Post subject: Re: A guided tour of Vitalogy: last exit
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 3:03 am 
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I wasn't a fan when Vitalogy was released. All I know is that the girls I was hanging around with loved BLACK and BETTER MAN and pretty much left the rest. Oh, and everyone thought that Eddie had great hair.

Based on what I heard listening to this album the first time, I am surprised that it sold as many copies as it did. I think that stip is right, it is a concept album. It strikes me as a cautionary tale rather than a description of events unfolding in real time. And I think that this tale hinges on LAST EXIT and IMMORTALITY. In many ways, I could see a large number of young male fans excited by the aggressiveness of the song; however, it has many features that are designed to make it a reflection of a situation that is unsettling. The music itself is unsettling, and I base my interpretation of the song on the way that the music strikes me.

The discordant "tune-up" at the beginning of LAST EXIT is actually fairly structured and is in 2. Certain cataclysmic events are occuring during this short interlude, perhaps the death of the protagonist. The timing switches sharply to 5/4. An unnerving shift after the rapid 2-count in the interlude. Then the vocal kicks in, off-beat, with it's rushed, frantic delivery. This signifies that something is askew already. The song "feels" awkward, almost as though the singer were having an out-of-body experience. At the chorus the vocal locks into the beat and becomes melodic and even hummable. I believe that the protagonist is dead already. The verses recall the turbulence of the life that he had lived as signified by the off-beat timing, percussive delivery and choppy melody. The choruses see him hovering above his dead body contemplating its fate and the impressions that he leaves on those who once had contact with him. The choruses are given an almost otherwordly air by the doubling of the vocal melody with the lead guitar.

I think that the repetition of the chorus coming out of the bridge is significant. It is repeated with vocals twice, once with three days, then with four days, then there is a final repetition of the chorus without vocals, only pounding percussion and faint, ghostly, voice-like noises, as though the spirit messenger has come to take the singer away.

Finally, the singer calls out to the forces in the universe:

Let my spirit pass...
This is, this is...
This is, this is...
This is, this is...
My...last exit


Has the singer found peace? Perhaps we can learn from his mistakes.


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 Post subject: Re: A guided tour of Vitalogy: last exit
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 4:11 am 
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SLH916 wrote:
I wasn't a fan when Vitalogy was released. All I know is that the girls I was hanging around with loved BLACK and BETTER MAN and pretty much left the rest. Oh, and everyone thought that Eddie had great hair.

Based on what I heard listening to this album the first time, I am surprised that it sold as many copies as it did. I think that stip is right, it is a concept album. It strikes me as a cautionary tale rather than a description of events unfolding in real time. And I think that this tale hinges on LAST EXIT and IMMORTALITY. In many ways, I could see a large number of young male fans excited by the aggressiveness of the song; however, it has many features that are designed to make it a reflection of a situation that is unsettling. The music itself is unsettling, and I base my interpretation of the song on the way that the music strikes me.

The discordant "tune-up" at the beginning of LAST EXIT is actually fairly structured and is in 2. Certain cataclysmic events are occuring during this short interlude, perhaps the death of the protagonist. The timing switches sharply to 5/4. An unnerving shift after the rapid 2-count in the interlude. Then the vocal kicks in, off-beat, with it's rushed, frantic delivery. This signifies that something is askew already. The song "feels" awkward, almost as though the singer were having an out-of-body experience. At the chorus the vocal locks into the beat and becomes melodic and even hummable. I believe that the protagonist is dead already. The verses recall the turbulence of the life that he had lived as signified by the off-beat timing, percussive delivery and choppy melody. The choruses see him hovering above his dead body contemplating its fate and the impressions that he leaves on those who once had contact with him. The choruses are given an almost otherwordly air by the doubling of the vocal melody with the lead guitar.

I think that the repetition of the chorus coming out of the bridge is significant. It is repeated with vocals twice, once with three days, then with four days, then there is a final repetition of the chorus without vocals, only pounding percussion and faint, ghostly, voice-like noises, as though the spirit messenger has come to take the singer away.

Finally, the singer calls out to the forces in the universe:

Let my spirit pass...
This is, this is...
This is, this is...
This is, this is...
My...last exit


Has the singer found peace? Perhaps we can learn from his mistakes.


great description

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 Post subject: Re: A guided tour of Vitalogy: last exit
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 5:12 am 
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There's so much going on in this thread, I don't even know where to start!

First before I start writing, I'd like to say that everything I write is my opinion. If I mean something else, it should be pretty obvious. Oh yeah and like Stip, I feel the interpretations are conjecture and written for our own pleasure. It's not mean to be definitive or "the word" from the mount. The only thing I can honestly say I know as fact (which might be denied who knows... it was fact at a certain time), is that the album was intended as more than a concept album. It ended up as a concept album because that's just how things worked out. Life sucks you know. It affects us all. Things were difficult.

mid-post ps. As I write, I'm slowly sinking so I may have to come back and clean this up later. Oh yeah and I read down and see the meeeeanDDering. Oh well.

Vitalogy, the album

1- I agree with Stip's overall analysis. That songs were written over a period of time and performed before they were recorded isn't relevant to the creator's ultimate purpose. I also don't think STBC is problematic to the tale. Music on vinyl can be seen as a pure form. Using Stip's conceptual thesis (which I've held and written about although with nowhere near the same elegance), the protagonist is in love with music. He is exalting IN music in STBC. Tremor Christ, Nothing Man, Whipping Privacy... everything fits a certain story line until you get to the second to last song, but things got fucked up and that's just how it had to be. The album ends with a resultant decent into madness that doesn't quite fit because of the previous song. This can be wanked into the previous song being observational and the protagonist ends up insane instead of choosing death as another did but it's not a successful as it would otherwise have been, had the protagonist making the decision, turned to madness instead of death.

2 - I agree with SLH that this isn't autobiographical so much as a story drawn from real life experience and emotion. The idea as far as I understand, was to tell a story based upon concepts along the lines Stip wrote and would have been more "fluent" musically (the interludes) if things hadn't gone to fucking hell.

mid-post pps. - i can say fucking! Go Me


Vitalogy and fan history

1 - Fandom was in a fucking uproar over Vitalogy. There was tremendous anger and confusion. A lot of this was an emotional "taking of sides" rather than a rational reaction to the music. Dave A had been fired. THAT WAS HUGE. Eddie was blamed for this. And Stone gave that interview. These events had an impact on how people heard the music. There was a lot of resentment towards Eddie that continued until recently (and there are still a few bitter hold overs). It's from this album. Some of these fans say they left with No Code. I didn't see that so much as them staying and bitching, buying the next albums, bitching, going on tours, bitching more. Turning their backs on the band when they played Wishlist and other bullshit

I remembering arguing in 1995, that being a poor guitar player does not mean you don't have the imagination to fully conceive great music. And as time has proven, Vedder wasn't a great guitarist as younger man because he focused on writing songs. He was writing original music with his first chords. With pipes like those, he could get by very very well. He just had to explain what he wanted.

I could write more but this is bad enough for now. It's a fucking mess. It's obvious how much time I don't put into these.... sigh.

g'night all.

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 Post subject: Re: A guided tour of Vitalogy: last exit
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 5:19 am 
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this thread will blow the roof off

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 Post subject: Re: A guided tour of Vitalogy: last exit
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 12:02 pm 
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stip wrote:
SLH916 wrote:
I wasn't a fan when Vitalogy was released. All I know is that the girls I was hanging around with loved BLACK and BETTER MAN and pretty much left the rest. Oh, and everyone thought that Eddie had great hair.

Based on what I heard listening to this album the first time, I am surprised that it sold as many copies as it did. I think that stip is right, it is a concept album. It strikes me as a cautionary tale rather than a description of events unfolding in real time. And I think that this tale hinges on LAST EXIT and IMMORTALITY. In many ways, I could see a large number of young male fans excited by the aggressiveness of the song; however, it has many features that are designed to make it a reflection of a situation that is unsettling. The music itself is unsettling, and I base my interpretation of the song on the way that the music strikes me.

The discordant "tune-up" at the beginning of LAST EXIT is actually fairly structured and is in 2. Certain cataclysmic events are occuring during this short interlude, perhaps the death of the protagonist. The timing switches sharply to 5/4. An unnerving shift after the rapid 2-count in the interlude. Then the vocal kicks in, off-beat, with it's rushed, frantic delivery. This signifies that something is askew already. The song "feels" awkward, almost as though the singer were having an out-of-body experience. At the chorus the vocal locks into the beat and becomes melodic and even hummable. I believe that the protagonist is dead already. The verses recall the turbulence of the life that he had lived as signified by the off-beat timing, percussive delivery and choppy melody. The choruses see him hovering above his dead body contemplating its fate and the impressions that he leaves on those who once had contact with him. The choruses are given an almost otherwordly air by the doubling of the vocal melody with the lead guitar.

I think that the repetition of the chorus coming out of the bridge is significant. It is repeated with vocals twice, once with three days, then with four days, then there is a final repetition of the chorus without vocals, only pounding percussion and faint, ghostly, voice-like noises, as though the spirit messenger has come to take the singer away.

Finally, the singer calls out to the forces in the universe:

Let my spirit pass...
This is, this is...
This is, this is...
This is, this is...
My...last exit


Has the singer found peace? Perhaps we can learn from his mistakes.


great description


It really is. Splendid work there.

_________________
Wilderness 1:49-2:04. Diamond Dust.

Window Washer's Dream - Planet Sonata's Intension


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 Post subject: Re: A guided tour of Vitalogy: last exit
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 2:17 pm 
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Alessiana wrote:
There's so much going on in this thread, I don't even know where to start!

First before I start writing, I'd like to say that everything I write is my opinion. If I mean something else, it should be pretty obvious. Oh yeah and like Stip, I feel the interpretations are conjecture and written for our own pleasure. It's not mean to be definitive or "the word" from the mount. The only thing I can honestly say I know as fact (which might be denied who knows... it was fact at a certain time), is that the album was intended as more than a concept album. It ended up as a concept album because that's just how things worked out. Life sucks you know. It affects us all. Things were difficult.

mid-post ps. As I write, I'm slowly sinking so I may have to come back and clean this up later. Oh yeah and I read down and see the meeeeanDDering. Oh well.

Vitalogy, the album

1- I agree with Stip's overall analysis. That songs were written over a period of time and performed before they were recorded isn't relevant to the creator's ultimate purpose. I also don't think STBC is problematic to the tale. Music on vinyl can be seen as a pure form. Using Stip's conceptual thesis (which I've held and written about although with nowhere near the same elegance), the protagonist is in love with music. He is exalting IN music in STBC. Tremor Christ, Nothing Man, Whipping Privacy... everything fits a certain story line until you get to the second to last song, but things got fucked up and that's just how it had to be. The album ends with a resultant decent into madness that doesn't quite fit because of the previous song. This can be wanked into the previous song being observational and the protagonist ends up insane instead of choosing death as another did but it's not a successful as it would otherwise have been, had the protagonist making the decision, turned to madness instead of death.

2 - I agree with SLH that this isn't autobiographical so much as a story drawn from real life experience and emotion. The idea as far as I understand, was to tell a story based upon concepts along the lines Stip wrote and would have been more "fluent" musically (the interludes) if things hadn't gone to fucking hell.

mid-post pps. - i can say fucking! Go Me


Vitalogy and fan history

1 - Fandom was in a fucking uproar over Vitalogy. There was tremendous anger and confusion. A lot of this was an emotional "taking of sides" rather than a rational reaction to the music. Dave A had been fired. THAT WAS HUGE. Eddie was blamed for this. And Stone gave that interview. These events had an impact on how people heard the music. There was a lot of resentment towards Eddie that continued until recently (and there are still a few bitter hold overs). It's from this album. Some of these fans say they left with No Code. I didn't see that so much as them staying and bitching, buying the next albums, bitching, going on tours, bitching more. Turning their backs on the band when they played Wishlist and other bullshit

I remembering arguing in 1995, that being a poor guitar player does not mean you don't have the imagination to fully conceive great music. And as time has proven, Vedder wasn't a great guitarist as younger man because he focused on writing songs. He was writing original music with his first chords. With pipes like those, he could get by very very well. He just had to explain what he wanted.

I could write more but this is bad enough for now. It's a fucking mess. It's obvious how much time I don't put into these.... sigh.

g'night all.

.


Alessiana, I'm pretty sure that disclaimer is for me. And I guess the point I was frustrated by earlier was the discussion of aesthetics was reduced to declarations of "it doesn't work." In the Dissident instance, but certainly elsewhere, and it's just unbecoming of someone who writes so much and thus can influence others' perceptions to reduce something to "it works" and "it doesn't." I'm aware everyone has opinions and that a statement is an opinion rarely does not need to be stated, but in the specific instance that was frustrating to me, the discussion of aesthetics seemed to be out the window, and a condescenion seemed to rule. So fuck me.

Having said that, I like what you had to report back to us and it's welcome to see you input since you've been relatively absent around here as of late. Hope works going well.


Last edited by Isaac Turner on Wed Dec 12, 2007 2:26 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: A guided tour of Vitalogy: last exit
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 2:18 pm 
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A Different Theory about Vitalogy


punkdavid wrote:
I think Vitalogy is a mess.

Perhaps much like Neil Young, PJ was just doing what they were doing and really reaching artistically, and out came the product. Honestly, I don't think that Vitalogy was any more of an intentional "fuck you" to the music industry than merely throwing together an album of whatever was left in the can and not making any attempts to sell it. I've always seen it as a rushed effort where the band was just trying to get another album out there before the band broke up under the pressure.



punkdavid wrote:
poto101 wrote:
Are you saying BUGS wasn't intentionally put on the album? IMO this is the biggest giveaway.

No. What I'm saying is that unlike virtually every other album that PJ has released where they had a lot of songs available and chose the 12-15 best for the album, with Vitalogy they had 14 songs available and they released those 14 songs so they could get an album out, any album. If the band had not been coming apart at the seams in 1994, they might have had 5 more "real" songs to choose from and then they might have only included one or two of the filler tracks, just for flavor. But at the time, they didn't have any choice but to include ALL of the filler tracks, because they actually needed to "fill" the album out.

Also, I think many of you are giving the band too much credit for saying "fuck you" just because they produced and released an unusual and non-commercial album. I just consider this album to be a result of the circumstances of its creation, not a "statement". Yes, Eddie was disenchanted with fame and wrote about it. Yes, there's a lot of unusual and experimental material included. But, to employ a football metaphor, the quarterback was under pressure and just tossed one up for grabs. Just because it resulted in a touchdown, doesn't mean it was a designed play.

You want to see a true "fuck you"? After the greatest success of his career, Harvest, Neil Young followed with a soundtrack to a movie nobody saw (Journey Through The Past), a roughly produced live album of entirely new material (Time Fades Away), and a tour featuring dark, drunken, new material where Neil routinely drank a bottle of tequila on stage (Tonight's The Night). Neil had a CHOICE, and every opportunity to take his career to even greater heights, but he chose to artistically baffle the music world. Then in 1983 after again baffling the music world with his vocoder and electronica laden Trans album, he submitted a country album to David Geffen who rejected it saying, "Give me something I can sell." "Sell THIS," Neil replied upon his delivery of Everybody's Rockin'. 8)


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