Ok, I seriously can't stand seeing people get pissed at the selling prices of PJ stuff. DVD, CD, poster, Shirt, Vinyl, Ticks regardless. It is JUST as morally wrong to own a booted DVD as it is to sell it whether you like it or not. You claim to be such wonderful and great people, why dont you stop the flaming of the seller and do something constructive and point the potential buyers in the right direction, letting them know its made to be free. But youd rather post peoples private addresses and handle it like 8th graders . It is also illegal to smoke pot, yet im sure many people on here that flame sellers dont see anything wrong with that? Selfish. Hopefully I am proven wrong on the following question, are there any quotes from the band about people filming their shows? What makes you think PJ wouldnt be pissed at the fact you are taping their shows on video? What makes you any better? K, now my main point....please look at the starting price, some people dont understand that people bid and outbid each other, thus raising the price. If you are pissed at the amount, be pissed at the buyer and not the seller. And whats the deal about selling DVD's....last time I checked no PJ stuff was meant for resale, was it? Whether someone sells a shirt or ames, they are still making profit on a PJ item.....I just don't get it. K, and do you think that people buy booted DVD's of PJ if they arent huge fans or buying them for huge fans? This means generally the people that buy them are aware of torrents and B&P just choose to click twice and go on with life and recieve itin the mail. If you want to flame, flame everyone involved in every PJ transaction because thats everyone guilty. They arent taking advantage of most people, most people would rather just pay someone 20 bucks and get on with life......if you didnt want it to be like this why post them on the internet, because you wanted to "share with the PJ faithful", well the PJ faithful are going against the band and videotaping all of their shows against their wishes...or else they wouldn't have the disclaimer about music and video recordings in their statement, so its quite a grey area of who is really to blame here.

i'm not trying to say i'm right, but don't you own rights to a certain copyrighted item if you paid for it, and until you sell it, at whatever price you want or whatever price someone offers, its legal to get as much as possible out of it. so there's nothing that could be done about that in a legal sense, is what i'm thinking.

Yah, but the way I see it is people are covering up why they are really pissed....if people cared that much about spreading the goodwill of PJ the "right way" there should be no recordings in the first place. Its so hypocritical its sickening, like someone said in a previous post, the people complaing are just selfish and hold themselves higher...they just want to keep ILLEGALLY videotaping shows and seeing them so they dont want someone to ruin it...instead they say its unfair ot the buy, bullshit.

i think your going to far in depth with this. people just dont like seeing other people getting ripped off (at least thats what i think and how i feel). i dont think their being hypocrits or anything i mean im sure you own videos of some shows. i think the band would be more mad that these videos were being sold for such rediculous prices then them even being made. and as for the audio the band lets the fans record shows. i dont know i dont want to start any trouble or anything even though thats all this thread is going to be but thats what i think and i dont want videos to stop being made i mean theres nothign better than being able to watch and relive the show you went to and thats why i think people get mad.

Okay, i see what you're saying, and can respect your point of view. There's a few points i'd like to elaborate on:



You have a point...I am guilty of owning PJ contraband, but watching a show that was only meant to be seen IN PERSON, is differenct then selling said show to make a profit from someone elses work.



I believe that only happened once...all other parties involved sent polite emails to the bidders informing them of the freebie option.



I was looking the other day but could'nt find it. But i do remember before the VFC show the taping policy being posted. Summed up it said that audio taping for a personal memento is allowed (though no pro equipment, ie boom mikes and DAT's), small flashless cameras are allowed, and video taping is not. It was also stated that no shows were to be sold and if the seller was found to be a 10c member, their membership would be revoked.



Anything is meant for resale. You buy a poster, and want to resell it, fuckin eh...its only worth what someone will pay for it (which in some cases is a helluva lot)...its the yardsale mentality, which is what ebay is, one giant yard sale. COUNTERFITTING of an item like a poster/official dvd however is highly illegal.



My point is that yes, i own bootlegged dvds despite the bands wishes. But i do not plan to have any personal gain from owning them (other than my own enjoyment ). The problem that people around here have, is that legitimate PJ fans are being ripped off when they don't have to be....and you'd be pissed too if someone stole your hard work and sold it. That being said, its also a buyer beware world. If you're gonna buy something, be informed about it. If you walk into a car dealership with a wad of cash hanging out your pocket and a dunce cap on, you're gonna get taken buddy. People are just trying to save the dummies!

Im so vey pleased with the replies, very respectful and a nice for a change. I am going to great lengths and yes i do own PJ DVD's but im not complaining aboutt he sales. Personal vendetta for taping and seeing your product sold,point is taken, but im more of the guy who is just happy to have it and whatever anyone else does is their business....I dont think this thread will start trouble i hope maybe it will let others know the othe rpoint of view. Not everyone is greedy, money hungry snots there truly are plenty of good reasons to sell anything for the money. But the main point im seeing is about the whole, helping people and getting it for free deal. I dont see so many posts about being upset my stuff is sold, its ripping people off. Well, the band that we follow and adore so closly DO NOT ALLOW OR WANT US VIDEO TAPING there shows, i cant understand how you down one person when you do this.....I DO own DVD's but dont judge others for their actions. You dont knowa persons struggles or life so in what good name are you doing these deeds? Your going against your favorite bands wishes and taping them in the first place, my only point is maybe people are pointing their fingers in the wrong direction

That's all well and good, but the fact of the matter still remains, that someone out there is betraying a community that is built of the free sharing of music/video/whatever and is selling that media for profit. If that person is in a shitty situation, it doesnt make it right. a drug dealer is still a drug dealer even if she is a pregnant teen (the comparison is a bit extreme but you get my point). The point im trying to make is that, even though we are watching shows against the bands wishes, none of us are trying to make any personal gains from it. We watch it and spread it for love of the band, not for the love of money.

I just mad a compilation DVD and it is a LOT of work. I could go sell 10 copies on eBay for $10 each and make it a reasonable business project, but ai won't because I want it to be traded freely. I want as many people as possible to get it at no cost to them. Now, if someone signs up for my B&P and then goes and sells 10 copies on eBay for $10 apiece, even after I specifically asked them not to, how is that OK? I did the work and decided it should be distributed freely. Why is it OK from a random eBayer to register here, get my DVD for free, and make a quick $100?

Im not condoning selling it I am just pointing out that the people that want it traded freely are just as wrong here. Your only beef is people are getting gyped (spelling) because the wonderful PJ community (it is, not being sarcastic) offers it for free. Youre missing my main point and that is no one who owns a booted DVD has the right to be critical because we are just as guilty for having them and recording them.....this isnt about profit, money or personal gain......i think it is terrible that people are seling these butttt i cant complain seeing as how we have no right to even own them in the first place. 2 wrongs dont make a right but pointing out one wrong doesnt make you right.

--k, ill budge a little and just use this analogy- while owning a booted DVD is wrong owning it and then selling it contains "more wrongfullness (W anyone?) but the way I see it when you take a test and get a portion of it wrong it is wrong, regardless of how many more errors you make you still get no credit, but since you made one mistake rather than two you want a better garde than your classmate even though both answers are wrong you feel less mistakes warrents a better grade, yet it doesnt. Thats the way i see this situation.

EDIT: So the only way a person can profit from a Boot is by money....so you do not profit from personal enjoyment, does that amke it more right that you enjoyment doesnt have a dead president on it, you still profit do you not?

ebay works through the internet

You're correct. We're not supposed to have these DVD"s in the first place....everything after someone tapes it is a moot point regardless of how we try and justify it.

PJ advocated taping the audio for the show, they specifically say No Video....There WAS an incident a few years ago where a PJ fan was sent a cease and desist order, he wrote an article on it.....I'll post it if I can find it.

But yeah, we're all doing something wrong....Saying but it's free, doesn't make it right.

Even Robin Hood had good intentions.....he was still a criminal.

I don't care what you buy or sell.

eBay is about 2 miles away from my house - let me know if you would like me to deliver this message to them.....

ebay is actually IN my house...on my computer.

People do that all the time.

Does this answer that question? (from TSIS FAQs)

Interview with Will Pendarvis on Krock in NYC (5/10/00)
WP: I've noticed that everything I see from you is written on a typewriter, so it doesn't seem like to me that you spend much time on the 'net.
EV: I did when I first got a computer. I was interested to see what was going on out there, and what the community was like. And actually, there was some really positive stuff out there, kind of an interesting way of communicating. And since then, I haven't really gone back to it. I kinda know what's going on; I hear a little here and there. It's also something you can't keep up with. It's really moving incredibly fast. So, I figure I'll check in once the dust settles a little. How would the band react to downloading music? I think again, we're doing the same. We want to see where this technology goes and catch up to it when it settles down even just a little bit. If we were able to offer music or live shows.. we've talked about certain things, trying to use the medium in a positive fashion and a responsible way. Right now, it's more of an exercise in frustration, and not like a fulfilling one...
WP: You're just going to see how it pans out and then make a decision on whether it's going to be good or not, right?
EV: A little bit. Again, to start trying to get on the horse right now while it's still pretty wild, would be time consuming and a little too much to keep up with. We'll see where it all goes. As long as it stays like a community thing, and not a regulated thing, being taxed and conformed, it should be all right, I would hope.

I assume your are commenting on the other thread. First off no one ever flamed the seller for the price of the dvd's. You say that we should have contacted the bidders to let them know they can get them for free, well I and others did post in that thread very early on that we did in fact do that. I knew the bidder did that on purpose just to drive up the price and I'm glad he did. I also support giving out the guys phone# but maybe not the address but I do understand why the mods won't allow that.

I get what you say about PJ not wanting their shows video taped but we do it anyway and distribute them freely to whoever wants them and maybe that is against the wishes of the band but that still doesnt really have anything to do with selling them on ebay.

I don't think there are that many threads here on people who sell stuff like this on PJ. The reason this guy got his own thread is because of how much he was selling and because of his feedback rating. There are auctions on there everyday selling stuff that we disagree with but they don't all get threads, but I do like to go on there occasionally and email the high bidders on where to get them for free.

what the fuck does that have to do with anything

EBAY SELLS THE ITEMS FOR A PRICE THE BUYER IS WILLING TO PAY, IF SOMEONE CHOOSES TO PAY $50 FOR A CD THEYRE NOT BEING RIPPED OFF BECAUSE IT IS THEMSELVES WHO HAVE SET THE PRICE, ITS A BIDDING SYSTEM, MOST OF THE ITEMS START AT LOW PRICES, I THINK THATS THE POINT

Since when is willingness to pay a price the standard for being ripped off? The definition of ripped off is that you gave someone too much money for whatever they gave you. If someone puts a Maxwell tape with Ten dubbed onto ti on e-bay and a buyer pays $300, that buyer got ripped off despite the fact that he set the $300 price tag.