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 Post subject: Re: Jeff Ament Solo Album?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 10:21 pm 
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pnjguy wrote:
Mine wrote:
pnjguy wrote:

So why are the majority of their songs credited to more than one member? I really would like to see a list of songs 100% attributed to Eddie.

You could check for yourself but let it be for this time:

Porch, RVM, Small Town, Whipping, Corduroy, Better Man, Immortality, I Got Shit, Long Road, Sometimes, Of He Goes, Habit, Lukin, Around The Band (No Code was nicknamed Eddie's solo album sarcastically because of the predominant input he had over it if we want to take that consideration), Wishlist, MFC, Breakerfall, Insignificance, Grievance, Soon Forget, Parting Ways, Man Of The Hour, Dead Man, Can't Keep, I Am Mine, Thumbing My Way, Green Disease, Arc, Sad, Hitchhiker, Education, Black, Red, Yellow, U, Undone, Drifitn, 4/20/02, World Wide Suicide, Severed Hand, Gone, Broken Hearted, Goodbye, Longing To Belong, Satellite, You're True, No More, Setting Forth, No Ceiling, Far Behind, Rise, Long Nights, Tuolomne, The Wolf, End Of The Road, Guaranteed.

PJ's credits don't always follow logic btw. The above are credited to Eddie or known to be his in a few cases.
Also Matt and Jeff referred to him as the leading songwriter in the band in interviews and promos.


Porch, Betterman, Sometimes, Off he Goes, Habit, Lukin, Around the Bend, Wishlist, MFC, Breakerfall, Insignificance, Grievance, Soon Forget, Parting Ways, Can't Keep, I am Mine, thumbing My Way, Green Disease, Arc, WWS, Severed Hand, Gone, are the only songs on their LP's that list Vedder as the only writer.

Whether you think he has more or not, i really can't go by that, all i can go by is what the band has documented.

No. Small Town is 100% known to be his. RVM and Corduroy are also widely known to be his, Immortality is also obviously his and there are interesting posts on this board explaining why this can't be a collaborative effort plus there's a quote from Mike (It must be in one of the Vitalogy threads) that about 4 or 5 songs on Vitalogy are Eddie's. This are the only not completely credited to Eddie on my list.
That's the bare minimum considering that many get full credits for just melody and words so comparing between bands can be pointless and there are some quotes by Eddie about writing certain songs outside the studio that have multiple credits on paper.

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 Post subject: Re: Jeff Ament Solo Album?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 10:57 pm 
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Mine wrote:
pnjguy wrote:
Mine wrote:
pnjguy wrote:

So why are the majority of their songs credited to more than one member? I really would like to see a list of songs 100% attributed to Eddie.

You could check for yourself but let it be for this time:

Porch, RVM, Small Town, Whipping, Corduroy, Better Man, Immortality, I Got Shit, Long Road, Sometimes, Of He Goes, Habit, Lukin, Around The Band (No Code was nicknamed Eddie's solo album sarcastically because of the predominant input he had over it if we want to take that consideration), Wishlist, MFC, Breakerfall, Insignificance, Grievance, Soon Forget, Parting Ways, Man Of The Hour, Dead Man, Can't Keep, I Am Mine, Thumbing My Way, Green Disease, Arc, Sad, Hitchhiker, Education, Black, Red, Yellow, U, Undone, Drifitn, 4/20/02, World Wide Suicide, Severed Hand, Gone, Broken Hearted, Goodbye, Longing To Belong, Satellite, You're True, No More, Setting Forth, No Ceiling, Far Behind, Rise, Long Nights, Tuolomne, The Wolf, End Of The Road, Guaranteed.

PJ's credits don't always follow logic btw. The above are credited to Eddie or known to be his in a few cases.
Also Matt and Jeff referred to him as the leading songwriter in the band in interviews and promos.


Porch, Betterman, Sometimes, Off he Goes, Habit, Lukin, Around the Bend, Wishlist, MFC, Breakerfall, Insignificance, Grievance, Soon Forget, Parting Ways, Can't Keep, I am Mine, thumbing My Way, Green Disease, Arc, WWS, Severed Hand, Gone, are the only songs on their LP's that list Vedder as the only writer.

Whether you think he has more or not, i really can't go by that, all i can go by is what the band has documented.

No. Small Town is 100% known to be his. RVM and Corduroy are also widely known to be his, Immortality is also obviously his and there are interesting posts on this board explaining why this can't be a collaborative effort plus there's a quote from Mike (It must be in one of the Vitalogy threads) that about 4 or 5 songs on Vitalogy are Eddie's. This are the only not completely credited to Eddie on my list.
That's the bare minimum considering that many get full credits for just melody and words so comparing between bands can be pointless and there are some quotes by Eddie about writing certain songs outside the studio that have multiple credits on paper.


Then why are they not credited to just Eddie? When i think songwriter, i think music, melody, and lyrics. All or none, otherwise it is collaborative.

So what you're saying is that all of "Eddie's songs" have never been tweaked by a band member or have put any input on them at all? How are we supposed to believe that unless the full credit is to him? The band doesn't seem to mind giving eddie all the credit on many songs, so why wouldn't they tell it how it is? It just doesn't add up to me.

I believe most of the "eddie songs" that aren't fully credited to him have been songs he writes on acoustic guitar, he brings it to the studio, then who knows. All i know the rest of the band does something for them to have any credit toward the song. Some members more than others. If every song was credited to the band, then i could see it your way but the band doesn't seem to work that way.

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 Post subject: Re: Jeff Ament Solo Album?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 11:44 pm 
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pnjguy wrote:
Then why are they not credited to just Eddie?.


As far as I'm aware, the band took a "all for one and one for all!" attitude towards songwriting credits on Vs. and Vitalogy. The exception with the latter being all three (at the time) major songwriters in the band getting one song to designate as their own: Nothingman (Jeff), Satan's Bed (Stone) & Better Man (Ed).

Notice I've specified "songwriting credits", not songwriting: the band wrote no differently in that time than they did on Ten or on their later records, it was just a decision to give an impression of band unity. I guess they decided it was sort of pointless and went back to how they operated on Ten, which is more transparent.

The most ridiculous example is Alone - it's one of the band's first songs but ends up being credited to Vedder/Gossard/Ament/McCready/Abbruzzese as it wasn't formally released until 1993. It's pretty obvious that the song should be credited to Stone but that's how it is and the same rule applies to Ed's songs from that period - Small Town, RVM, Corduroy, Immortality etc. They're all 100% Ed creations but due to the rule the band laid down at the time, they're credited as group compositions.

To imply that the band started composing as a unit for Vs. and Vitalogy and then immediately ceased this afterwards is crazy - the only thing that changed is the way the band assigned the songwriting credits.

pnjguy wrote:
When i think songwriter, i think music, melody, and lyrics. All or none, otherwise it is collaborative.


Not really - the lyrics are a moot point for this discussion as Ed wrote all the band's lyrics up until Stone's for Mankind, I believe (and he didn't even sing that, obviously).

There's absolutely no problem with saying Stone wrote Alive for instance, it goes without saying that Ed wrote the lyrics. It's a "Music: Gossard Lyrics: Vedder" song, not simply "Gossard/Vedder" as this implies they collaborated equally on all parts of the song, which isn't true.


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 Post subject: Re: Jeff Ament Solo Album?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 6:59 am 
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Mine wrote:
Angus wrote:
spenno wrote:
Why Go, Jeremy, Nothingman, Smile, Pilate, Low Light, Push Me Pull Me, Gods' Dice, Nothing As It Seems, Sleight Of Hand, Help Help, Half Full, Other Side, Army Reserve...


Mine wrote:
pop rock fillers.


6-7 songs out of my top 30 here. :|

:haha:
Only 2 of those are 100% Ament.

This brought to my mind that usually/proverbially solo efforts by musicians who are in mayor bands tend to be embarrassing


I don't think that's correct, unless you are counting lyrics. In terms of music written, those are all Jeff's songs -- and all very good songs IMO.


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 Post subject: Re: Jeff Ament Solo Album?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 7:50 am 
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thegreatdestroyer wrote:
Mine wrote:
Angus wrote:
spenno wrote:
Why Go, Jeremy, Nothingman, Smile, Pilate, Low Light, Push Me Pull Me, Gods' Dice, Nothing As It Seems, Sleight Of Hand, Help Help, Half Full, Other Side, Army Reserve...


Mine wrote:
pop rock fillers.


6-7 songs out of my top 30 here. :|

:haha:
Only 2 of those are 100% Ament.

This brought to my mind that usually/proverbially solo efforts by musicians who are in mayor bands tend to be embarrassing


I don't think that's correct, unless you are counting lyrics. In terms of music written, those are all Jeff's songs -- and all very good songs IMO.

That was discussed and explained earlier.

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 Post subject: Re: Jeff Ament Solo Album?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 8:10 am 
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spenno wrote:
There's absolutely no problem with saying Stone wrote Alive for instance, it goes without saying that Ed wrote the lyrics. It's a "Music: Gossard Lyrics: Vedder" song, not simply "Gossard/Vedder" as this implies they collaborated equally on all parts of the song, which isn't true.

That's not entirely true in practice. For example any songwriter bringing in just words and melody would be entitled to full credits for words and music let alone with some chords thrown in. If you see someone credited for words and music both it could be just that. The rest may as well be arrangement.
I think PJ handles that nicely. That way they spread the royalties between them.
A full credit on some other band's album may be something completely different than on PJ's.
It's not really that much of a stretch to identify Eddie's songs and those strongly influenced by him (like he started from Mike's riff and built a song on it) and the same for Stone or Jeff dominated songs. They are very different so i think any ear can pick that up even without direct references or demos.
With Eddie is particularly obvious because of the RVM type arrangements that he uses again on Corduroy and onwards.
And if you go with the complains of band members about Vitalogy and No Code being dominated by Eddie's liking, and they didn't like the results, crediting them for that result, because it's a collaborative effort judging by the credits, it's against what they've been saying and it would better fit pnjguy's definition of solo compositions than collaborative efforts because the end result is what one guy wanted it to be. A good example is Spin The Black Circle. Stone complained that Eddie changed it too much from the original mid tempo riff he wrote.

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 Post subject: Re: Jeff Ament Solo Album?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 1:16 pm 
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Mine wrote:
With Eddie is particularly obvious because of the RVM type arrangements that he uses again on Corduroy and onwards.


His "signature" riffs are often played like arpeggios over open strings. See RVM, Corduroy, GreenDisease, Untitled/MFC...

As a rule of thumb, I think that Ed only plays guitar on the songs he wrote music for. Porch was an exception for years, until the slow down version in 2005.

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 Post subject: Re: Jeff Ament Solo Album?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 9:48 pm 
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XWayne wrote:
Mine wrote:
With Eddie is particularly obvious because of the RVM type arrangements that he uses again on Corduroy and onwards.


His "signature" riffs are often played like arpeggios over open strings. See RVM, Corduroy, GreenDisease, Untitled/MFC...

As a rule of thumb, I think that Ed only plays guitar on the songs he wrote music for. Porch was an exception for years, until the slow down version in 2005.


They were doing the slow-intro Porch on the '98 Australian tour, I'm pretty sure Ed played guitar on that from then onwards (I might be wrong, but I think even when they did the fast intro, Ed still played guitar in the jam from then on).

There are a few cases where he plays guitar live on songs that he didn't write: Come Back, Big Wave (Ed plays during the outro), Don't Gimme No Lip, Present Tense & No Way.


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 Post subject: Re: Jeff Ament Solo Album?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 8:46 am 
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the Porch on the 95 touring movie ed plays guitar

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 Post subject: Re: Jeff Ament Solo Album?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 9:59 am 
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adamdude wrote:
95 touring movie


thou shan't talk about that! :D


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 Post subject: Re: Jeff Ament Solo Album?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 6:31 pm 
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spenno wrote:
XWayne wrote:
Mine wrote:
With Eddie is particularly obvious because of the RVM type arrangements that he uses again on Corduroy and onwards.


His "signature" riffs are often played like arpeggios over open strings. See RVM, Corduroy, GreenDisease, Untitled/MFC...

As a rule of thumb, I think that Ed only plays guitar on the songs he wrote music for. Porch was an exception for years, until the slow down version in 2005.


They were doing the slow-intro Porch on the '98 Australian tour, I'm pretty sure Ed played guitar on that from then onwards (I might be wrong, but I think even when they did the fast intro, Ed still played guitar in the jam from then on).

There are a few cases where he plays guitar live on songs that he didn't write: Come Back, Big Wave (Ed plays during the outro), Don't Gimme No Lip, Present Tense & No Way.


He also played on Porch at Boston Garden in 94. And he's been known to play on Hard to Imagine a few times.

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 Post subject: Re: Jeff Ament Solo Album?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 16, 2008 12:28 am 
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Angus wrote:
adamdude wrote:
95 touring movie


thou shan't talk about that! :D


....not that i've seen it or anything :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: Jeff Ament Solo Album?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 16, 2008 3:13 am 
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adamdude wrote:
Angus wrote:
adamdude wrote:
95 touring movie


thou shan't talk about that! :D


....not that i've seen it or anything :wink:

me neither :o


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 Post subject: Re: Jeff Ament Solo Album?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 9:48 am 
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PRE ORDER IN STORES 9/16
First solo project from Pearl Jam bassist, Jeff Ament. Ten tracks recorded in Montana over 12 years with a little help from drummer Richard Stuverud. King's X frontman Dug Pinnick lends vocals to "Doubting Thomasina".

Track Listing:
1. Just Like That
2. Give Me A Reason
3. Bulldozer
4. Relapse
5. Say Goodbye
6. The Forest
7. Life of a Salesman
8. Doubting Thomasina
9. Hi-Line
10. The Only Cloud In The Sky


there you go !!!!!

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 Post subject: Re: Jeff Ament Solo Album?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 1:20 pm 
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Good thread. I'm mostly with Mine on Jeff's comparative talent as a song writer--but then again I've never had any interest in any of their solo projects except for Eddie's. They are all capable of writing compelling music but none of them can sing or write lyrics worth a damn except for eddie and that's too important a part of any song for me.


tyler wrote:
Mine wrote:
I don't think Eddie needs help in writing and arranging a song. He's work is really effective whether you like it or not. Some people argue that with chord progressions, solos or plain weirdness but that's entirely a matter of preference.
My only knock with Ed solo written songs is that Ed doesn't really write that well with a multiple guitar band in mind. There's very little if any interesting interplay between guitars. But he is a fantastic singer songwriter type of writer on his own. That's just not really what I want when listening to Pearl Jam.



I'd certainly agree with this to a point. there are some exceptions (corduroy, RVM, even I am Mine) but often the third guitar on eddie's songs sound a bit lost. Some are amazing songs (I think only mike is as consistently good as Eddie is, if not better, in the writing department--but I might be baised because until S/T mike didn't insist on ruining perfectly good songs with terrible lyrics) and there are enough of them that they are authentic pearl jam songs in their own right, but you usually won't get an alive, animal, DTE, SOLAT, life wasted style song out of eddie. Actually severed hand comes pretty close, but it might just be becuase he stops playing on most of it.


pnjguy wrote:
Angus wrote:
THat new Cornell song is just brilliant,
as is Corgan's latest piece of shit.


And S/T was amazing :arrow:

I was talking overall in their respective careers anyway, and i was comparing them to songwriters from their era. Stone or Vedder have not put out anything individually that touches Mellon-collie or Siamese. And smashing pumpkins was/is Billy Corgan, unlike pearl jam where its more collaborative.

spenno wrote:
Honestly, Thom Yorke has never been more than a writer of mediocre, meandering dirges....


I would have to disagree. Eraser and Euphoria were critically acclaimed, more than anything Stone or Eddie have ever put out period.




I don't know enough about how radiohead does their writing to comment on Thom Yorke too much, but he puts out a lot of boring turgid stuff along side his moments of brilliance, and I always pictured them as much more collaberative than is being implied here. Certainly Yorke's solo record was terrible.

I think Pearl Jam ultimatley has a more compelling catalogue than the pumpkins, and I'd take the best stuff Eddie mostly wrote over the high points in the pumpkins catalogue, but especially prior to the late 90s I wouldn't argue with someone who said that Corgan was a better writer than Vedder (although Pearl Jam put out better records than the pumpkins). But Corgan has been on a real steep decline ever since that he shows no signs of being able to arrest. He's a joke now.

And I'm not so sure that Euphoria Morning was more critically acclaimed than into the wild. It was a very good record, to be sure, but if you're talking about their abiltiy as solo artists CC loses massive points for his last record.

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 Post subject: Re: Jeff Ament Solo Album?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 1:22 pm 
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Soma. wrote:
If we're talking about songwriters in their prime, pnjguy is bang on the money. You can't expect PJ chat to have a clue, though.



clearly a guy who named himself after a pumpkins song will be the picture of objectivity in a discussion about eddie vedder and billy corgan

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 Post subject: Re: Jeff Ament Solo Album?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 4:21 pm 
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stip wrote:
Soma. wrote:
If we're talking about songwriters in their prime, pnjguy is bang on the money. You can't expect PJ chat to have a clue, though.



clearly a guy who named himself after a pumpkins song will be the picture of objectivity in a discussion about eddie vedder and billy corgan

oh no he di'nt

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 Post subject: Re: Jeff Ament Solo Album?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 5:44 am 
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...and Thom Yorke and Chris Cornell. I'm not really biased, I just know what's up.

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 Post subject: Re: Jeff Ament Solo Album?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 11:01 am 
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What do you all think the album will sound like? I'm expecting something world music like, with lots of rhythm and dark 'bassy' voices. Maybe even strings.

groetjes,
Mirella :)

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 Post subject: Re: Jeff Ament Solo Album?
PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 7:49 pm 
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Mirella wrote:
What do you all think the album will sound like? I'm expecting something world music like, with lots of rhythm and dark 'bassy' voices. Maybe even strings.

groetjes,
Mirella :)

Not sure what to expect but I'm excited about this release.

Has anybody heard some snippet of this album yet?

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