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Favorite Song on Avocado
Life Wasted 4%  4%  [ 5 ]
World Wide Suicide 0%  0%  [ 1 ]
Comatose 5%  5%  [ 6 ]
Severed Hand 13%  13%  [ 14 ]
Marker in the Sand 15%  15%  [ 16 ]
Parachutes 14%  14%  [ 15 ]
Unemployable 6%  6%  [ 7 ]
Big Wave 1%  1%  [ 2 ]
Gone 3%  3%  [ 4 ]
Wasted Reprise 0%  0%  [ 1 ]
Army Reserve 12%  12%  [ 13 ]
Come Back 6%  6%  [ 7 ]
Inside Job 9%  9%  [ 10 ]
Total votes : 101
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 Post subject: Re: Talk about Pearl Jam / Avocado
PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 2:44 pm 
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Harmless wrote:
But then, I also think the chorus of 'MFC' falls flat after the verses.

So what do I know, eh?


well, it does.

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 Post subject: Re: Talk about Pearl Jam / Avocado
PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 2:45 pm 
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Kevin Davis wrote:
Psychologically, I've always found both of these songs somewhat deficient--though I get what the singer is trying to do, the sense of triumph he's trying to reflect, I've always struggled with the notion that what he's essentially advocating is running away from your problems, something which, as a student of psychology and believer in direct confrontation of one's issues, I can't endorse.


You make a good point about the lack of introduction we get to the character and his situation before they leave the situation. I am imagine Ed is a fan of the Bruce Springsteen car songs, but Bruce is much better at setting context than Ed.

Compare:

Quote:
Well they blew up the chicken man in Philly last night now they blew up his house too
Down on the boardwalk they're gettin' ready for a fight gonna see what them racket boys can do

Now there's trouble busin' in from outta state and the D.A. can't get no relief
Gonna be a rumble out on the promenade and the gamblin' commissions hangin' on by the skin of its teeth


Quote:
The screen door slams
Marys dress sways
Like a vision she dances across the porch
As the radio plays
Roy orbison singing for the lonely
Hey that's me and I want you only
Don't turn me home again
I just can't face myself alone again
Don't run back inside
Darling you know just what Im here for
So you're scared and you're thinking
That maybe we aint that young anymore
Show a little faith, there's magic in the night
You aint a beauty, but hey you're alright
Oh and that's alright with me


To:

Quote:
No more upset mornings
No more trying evenings
This American Dream I am disbelieving
When the gas in my tank feels like money in the bank
Gonna blow it all this time, take me one last ride
For the lights of this city, they only look good when I'm speeding
I wanna leave em all behind me cause this time I'm gone


Quote:
Sliding out of reverse into drive, this
Wheel will be turning right, then straight
Off in the sunset she'll ride
She can remember a time denied
Stood by the side of the road, spilled like wine now
She's out on her own and I'm high


Quote:
I took a drive today
Time to emancipate
I guess it was the beatings made me wise
But I'm not about to give thanks, or apologize
I couldn't breathe, holdin' me down
Hand on my face, pushed to the ground
Empty Gaze, united by fear
Forced to endure what I could not forgive...


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 Post subject: Re: Talk about Pearl Jam / Avocado
PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 2:49 pm 
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well in fairness you are comparing two of Springsteen's very best songs to two average (or below average) PH songs.

The tricky thing with Gone is that, more than the other songs, it seems to want to have a narrative. Eddie doesn't really tell stories. The songs are almost always about what is going on inside the character's head. He doesn't have the eye for detail that Springsteen does (and Springsteen writes lots of sub par songs, but when he's on he's an amazing storyteller). That's why the details in a song like Unemployable can feel condescending even though I suspect that's not the intention

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 Post subject: Re: Talk about Pearl Jam / Avocado
PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 3:01 pm 
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Ed is not a stickler for narrative detail at all, and when he tries for that style (like on S/T) it often feels like boring reportage. There was a time when he was brilliant at metaphor, wordplay and devastatingly sarcastic phrase (most of Vitalogy, some of No Code). "Don't need a bandage, got a hard hard head; don't need a raincoat, I'm already wet." 'Last Exit', StBC, Satan's Bed. Now... I don't know what he's good at lyrically, I don't expect good lyrics anymore. I don't consider RVM a subpar song at all, but a great one in the context of a band which was always spotty lyrically.

Those Springsteen lyrics look extremely good written down.


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 Post subject: Re: Talk about Pearl Jam / Avocado
PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 4:44 pm 
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McParadigm wrote:
Now that you mention it, Eddie Vedder is a huge proponent of running away from your problems.

:|

It's no crime to escape.

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 Post subject: Re: Talk about Pearl Jam / Avocado
PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 4:45 pm 
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cutuphalfdead wrote:
McParadigm wrote:
Now that you mention it, Eddie Vedder is a huge proponent of running away from your problems.

:|

It's no crime to escape.

Yes, but escape is never the safest bath.

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 Post subject: Re: Talk about Pearl Jam / Avocado
PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 4:46 pm 
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Serious post: I always took it as getting away to get a clear head so that one can face the problems as one should.


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 Post subject: Re: Talk about Pearl Jam / Avocado
PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 5:04 pm 
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theplatypus wrote:
cutuphalfdead wrote:
McParadigm wrote:
Now that you mention it, Eddie Vedder is a huge proponent of running away from your problems.

:|

It's no crime to escape.

Yes, but escape is never the safest bath.

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 Post subject: Re: Talk about Pearl Jam / Avocado
PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 5:05 pm 
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cutuphalfdead wrote:
McParadigm wrote:
Now that you mention it, Eddie Vedder is a huge proponent of running away from your problems.

:|

It's no crime to escape.


It's so much worse than that, though. If only it were limited to the occasional blatant phrase or lyric...

Quote:
Yes, but escape is never the safest bath.


Humorous spelling slip aside, isn't this song basically an empathetic nod toward a person who tries to do something they feel is right, becomes overwhelmed by it, and then subsequently runs away from their problems? And isn't this dissident who is the embodiment of that problem, by hiding in this otherwise innocent person's home, also running away from their problems?

It's a DOUBLE RUNNING!


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 Post subject: Re: Talk about Pearl Jam / Avocado
PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 5:06 pm 
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We need to stop listening to what Eddie Vedder has to say.

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 Post subject: Re: Talk about Pearl Jam / Avocado
PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 5:08 pm 
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I don't think Gone's problem is necessarily the lyrics, although the chorus certainly leaves something to be desired. But such a simplistic chorus would be fine if the song itself wasn't boring. The whole thing just plods. Over time, I've felt that that song along with Inside Job are S/T's two biggest stumbling blocks.


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 Post subject: Re: Talk about Pearl Jam / Avocado
PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 5:10 pm 
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cutuphalfdead wrote:
We need to stop listening to what Eddie Vedder has to say.


See? We've been listening to him for so long that now, our immediate reaction to everything is to run away.


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 Post subject: Re: Talk about Pearl Jam / Avocado
PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 5:20 pm 
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McParadigm wrote:
cutuphalfdead wrote:
We need to stop listening to what Eddie Vedder has to say.


See? We've been listening to him for so long that now, our immediate reaction to everything is to run away.


Not true. Sometimes I like to stay and watch the waves from my windowsill.

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 Post subject: Re: Talk about Pearl Jam / Avocado
PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 5:31 pm 
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i never interpreted these songs as just running away from your problems. I take them fairly literally, especially since escaping my hometown southeastern shitberg (by car) is one of the best things that ever happened to me. I dont see dropping everything and leaving a destructive or stifling environment to be a bad thing, so i generally love these songs (Gone excluded).

I've always been a big fan of MFC.

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 Post subject: Re: Talk about Pearl Jam / Avocado
PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 5:36 pm 
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bmacsmith wrote:
i never interpreted these songs as just running away from your problems. I take them fairly literally, especially since escaping my hometown southeastern shitberg (by car) is one of the best things that ever happened to me. I dont see dropping everything and leaving a destructive or stifling environment to be a bad thing, so i generally love these songs (Gone excluded).

I've always been a big fan of MFC.


Same here. When I first heard 'Gone', I was going through a divorce, waiting for her to leave the house and leave me stranded in a shitty town I never meant to live in in the first place. So these songs meant a lot to me. There's nothing inherently wrong with the impulse to escape; it's not society's favourite value because they can't make money from it. It's about self-preservation, and that's considered 'selfish' by those on top.


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 Post subject: Re: Talk about Pearl Jam / Avocado
PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 7:35 pm 
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bmacsmith wrote:
i never interpreted these songs as just running away from your problems. I take them fairly literally, especially since escaping my hometown southeastern shitberg (by car) is one of the best things that ever happened to me.


This conspiracy goes way beyond car songs, friend.

Are there some very real problems that probably need addressing? Sure, but instead of dealing with them just let me continue to blame you. That's all I really need, anyway. And don't ask me to come home...my problems are at home, so why go there? Just release me. I'd rather be with an animal anyway. And you know how animals get away? Because someone dropped their leash.

The kid in Given to Fly tunes out and runs hundreds of miles because of one locked door, and is rewarded for this avoidance with supernatural powers. Later on he's beaten by some undefinable individuals, and responds by flying away yet again to go bang chicks and probably get so high he gets back his innocence (that's how you get innocence back...by getting really fucking far away from things). Off He Goes Guy is a shitty friend, knows it, and deals with that fact by just not being around very often. Have you seen the way that tree bends? Well get the fuck away from that thing, because you should live in the present tense and eschew all efforts to address the past. Believe in lies to get by (it's divine). Yeah, the past is thick and heavy, but jesus christ stop talking about it already. I could be new. Maybe he's only making his getaway with thoughts of the girl right now, but he's always wondering about wandering. And why not? She's already drifting away. He might as well, too.

What? You just realized that by not confronting your problems all this time, you've actually been wasting your life? Well, just promise yourself never to go back again and all will be well. Leave your lady on the cement floor (uh...), pop some magic medicine, and go off to a preternatural other plane where none of your fucking shitty life can reach you I guess.

Even when this guy tries to sing about actually DOING something, he has to qualify it. I mean, I want to fight to get it back again, you know? We need to fill the air up with love. How? Uh...hey, here's a path for us to walk on. Where are we off to? Distant shores. They're awaiting our arrival. And when we get to the edge of that ocean, we're going to, like, stand there. Hopefully someone else will take it from there. If not? Well, we'll just leave. The end.


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 Post subject: Re: Talk about Pearl Jam / Avocado
PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 7:41 pm 
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I'm just saying this guy can't solve a problem to save his soul.

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 Post subject: Re: Talk about Pearl Jam / Avocado
PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 7:43 pm 
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Name me one 'grunge' band song -- nay, one rock song -- which is actually productive and wise about life. When was that something rock music was for?


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 Post subject: Re: Talk about Pearl Jam / Avocado
PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 7:47 pm 
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Harmless wrote:
Name me one 'grunge' band song -- nay, one rock song -- which is actually productive and wise about life. When was that something rock music was for?

"Be Productive and Do Things" by Angry Manuel and the Wetbacks

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 Post subject: Re: Talk about Pearl Jam / Avocado
PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 7:48 pm 
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Harmless wrote:
Name me one 'grunge' band song -- nay, one rock song -- which is actually productive and wise about life. When was that something rock music was for?


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