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 Post subject: Re: Guided Tour Thread: Yield
PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 8:08 pm 
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mray10 wrote:
Yield does have ambiguity, and it fairly obvious based on our discussions. Everything about Given To Fly suggests that it's a hopeful song, an empowering anthem. But clearly there's enough other stuff going on in the song that if you look at it closely, you start to wonder--how hopeful is this song really? The same holds true for the album as a whole.

Many people have shared this sentiment in this thread. However, mray makes a solid point that "the same holds true for the album as a whole."

Here's my question... in regard to Brain Of J specifically... what about GTF suggests that it's hopefull on the surface and darker underneath that isn't also suggested by Brain Of J? I feel like there's an argument that Brain Of J is an ultimately hopeful song, fine. But I just don't hear that. Other than the words, "the whole world will be releaved," I don't hear anything in the music or lyric that suggests hope. And I question whether or not the aforementioned line is sung with hope in mind. I guess it depends on what the world will be releaved of. What does everyone think Ed is referring to -- specifically -- when he says "releaved?" The whole world will be releaved of...... ?

The "sonic boom" at the end of the song has always sounded more forbodding to me than anything. I hear doors slamming, world's ending, explosions destroying. It's grand in scope. But so is most of PJ's music. They have a remarkable ability to be so intimate in their points while being so sweeping in their conversations. I guess, for me, if Yield is the band looking outward, rather than inward, I guess I don't understand most of Ten, VS and No Code. I don't want to jump the gun here, but when Ed sings "I'm through with screaming" I don't think he means that he's trying an alternate approach to communication ("if I stop screaming and start whispering, maybe they'll listen"). I think he's saying he's done communicating (in the context of the song, he's done communicating with god). So, if anything Yield isn't about looking outward instead of inward, it's about learning to stop looking and just being. And in order to do that you have to remove yourself from the situation. Yield is PJ trying to remove themselves from the situation.

There is something very accessable and loveable about Yield. I agree. But just as I don't see Riot Act as PJ's "darkest" album, I don't see Yield as their lightest -- or most open -- or transformative. The band itself seems to have stripped away some of it's own baggage, perhaps, so the music is more accessable and whimsical than the last few albums. They don't feel like they're trying as hard on Yield (in a good way)... but if GTF fly is covertly dark, then I think we have to acknowledge that (at least) so is Brain of J.

This thread is fantastic, by the way. I'm really not trying to be contrary for the sake of being contrary or anything like that. I love this discussion and I just felt the urge to put in my two cents. There are some fantastic points (and points of view) being presented and expressed. Thank you to everyone who is participating. :thumbsup:

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 Post subject: Re: Guided Tour Thread: Yield
PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 8:13 pm 
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stip wrote:
What I'm arguing (and maybe i'll retreat from this in the end--I'm gonna play this out as we go through) is that while Digster is probably right and Yield is an album about journeys (an interpretation that makes a lot of sense) there is a lot of 'surrender' in yield (which, in a lot of ways, is what the title means)--a sense that if we just stop fighting we can somehow stop searching. This is most prevelant in a song like In Hiding but it crops up throughout. Or alternately, we can run away and escape (see stuff like MFC and ATY).
But in both cases they're trying to avoid something rather than confront it, or make their peace with it rather than change it.
And this rings false to me, even if they really wanted it to be true. .


I don't think I agree with this, and one of the reasons is actually something I just thought of today. It's only one song in, and I'm already starting to shift my thoughts on the album. I think we're underselling the amount of engagement present in Yield, but I see your point that Yield overall contains many mentions of escape, and you point to In Hiding as your best example. The problem with your argument here is that there is no suggestion that these escapes that occur are meant to be permanent. I'm still formulating what I think about In Hiding, but just look at that last verse. The narrator has been in hiding, and comes back re-invigorated and re-dedicated. That doesn't sound like a man permanently trying to escape the world. It's the method he's found to cope. It's the way he doesn't let the darkness in the world swallow him. He goes into hiding so he can fight again. So I think In Hiding may actually be the biggest hole in what you're saying, at least how I hear it.


stip wrote:
Backspacer is also written from a space where they band is (or seems to be) at peace with itself, but in a way that strikes me as more authentically Pearl Jam, if I can put it that way. There is that old stubborn defiance on a song like Force of Nature or Gonna See My Friend, the call to arms in The Fixer or Got Some, the confidence and self-assertion of Unthought Known or Amongst the Waves. All of these songs too have that element of solidarity in it--that even if this is a place we ultimatley reach on our own it is part of a journey we take together. Yield feels more solitary to me. And while there are certainly songs on Yield that would fit in here (Wishlist and GTF especially), there were assertive songs on Riot Act as well--but in both cases they're ultimatley overshadowed thematically by some of the other stuff that's on those records. They're initimations of a direction they are moving in, but have not yet fully committed to. Yield is like a false start, in that sense.


I think we just disagree on this; the more I think about it, the less assertiveness or engagement I hear on Backspacer. Most of the contentment comes from the love expressed throughout the album, and much of the drama comes from the fear that these things could be taken away (primarily through death). That's a scary concept, and it's also one that's pretty passive. I also am not sure what you're saying about Backspacer being more "authentically" Pearl Jam.


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 Post subject: Re: Guided Tour Thread: Yield
PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 8:20 pm 
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durdencommatyler wrote:
Here's my question... in regard to Brain Of J specifically... what about GTF suggests that it's hopefull on the surface and darker underneath that isn't also suggested by Brain Of J? I feel like there's an argument that Brain Of J is an ultimately hopeful song, fine. But I just don't hear that. Other than the words, "the whole world will be releaved," I don't hear anything in the music or lyric that suggests hope. And I question whether or not the aforementioned line is sung with hope in mind. I guess it depends on what the world will be releaved of. What does everyone think Ed is referring to -- specifically -- when he says "releaved?" The whole world will be releaved of...... ?


These are all really cool points. For me, the positive part of Brain of J is that chorus; whatever the specifics of the world being relieved, I think the fact that the chorus seems to be in response to the verses makes it clear it'd be a break from the horrors expressed in the verse. The other optimistic point is in the bridge, when he rejects the "name" given to him presumably by the antagonists in the song. It could be his schooling, their attempts to make him into a machine, any number of possibilities, but in that moment he rejects it. Even though some may view that as an escape from their clutches, I think it is a defiant act and an engaged one.

The thing about GTF I'm not sure I get; I understand that the song has instances of darkness (after all, the narrator is stripped and stabbed, although that's really the only instance of darkness in the entire song). But how can a song with this as its climax

And he still gives his love
He just gives it away
And the love that's recieved
Is the love that is saved
And sometimes is seen
A strange spot in the sky
A human being
That was given to fly

be a "dark" song? Maybe someone who feels this way about the song can show me, cause I can't see it as being anything other than a hopeful sentiment.


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 Post subject: Re: Guided Tour Thread: Yield
PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 8:59 pm 
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digster wrote:
durdencommatyler wrote:
Here's my question... in regard to Brain Of J specifically... what about GTF suggests that it's hopefull on the surface and darker underneath that isn't also suggested by Brain Of J? I feel like there's an argument that Brain Of J is an ultimately hopeful song, fine. But I just don't hear that. Other than the words, "the whole world will be releaved," I don't hear anything in the music or lyric that suggests hope. And I question whether or not the aforementioned line is sung with hope in mind. I guess it depends on what the world will be releaved of. What does everyone think Ed is referring to -- specifically -- when he says "releaved?" The whole world will be releaved of...... ?


These are all really cool points. For me, the positive part of Brain of J is that chorus; whatever the specifics of the world being relieved, I think the fact that the chorus seems to be in response to the verses makes it clear it'd be a break from the horrors expressed in the verse. The other optimistic point is in the bridge, when he rejects the "name" given to him presumably by the antagonists in the song. It could be his schooling, their attempts to make him into a machine, any number of possibilities, but in that moment he rejects it. Even though some may view that as an escape from their clutches, I think it is a defiant act and an engaged one.

The thing about GTF I'm not sure I get; I understand that the song has instances of darkness (after all, the narrator is stripped and stabbed, although that's really the only instance of darkness in the entire song). But how can a song with this as its climax

And he still gives his love
He just gives it away
And the love that's recieved
Is the love that is saved
And sometimes is seen
A strange spot in the sky
A human being
That was given to fly

be a "dark" song? Maybe someone who feels this way about the song can show me, cause I can't see it as being anything other than a hopeful sentiment.


He could've tuned in, tuned in
But he tuned out
A bad time, nothing could save him
Alone in a corridor, waiting, locked out
He got up outta there, ran for hundreds of miles
He made it to the ocean, had a smoke in a tree
The wind rose up, set him down on his knee

A wave came crashing like a fist to the jaw
Delivered him wings, 'Hey, look at me now'
Arms wide open with the sea as his floor
Oh, power, oh
He's.. flying.....whole

He floated back down 'cause he wanted to share
His key to the locks on the chains he saw everywhere
But first he was stripped and then he was stabbed
By faceless men, well, fuckers
He still stands


The song is horribly depressing.


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 Post subject: Re: Guided Tour Thread: Yield
PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 9:12 pm 
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Given to Fly kind of reminds me of Morgan Freeman's last line from the movie Seven: "Ernest Hemingway once wrote, 'The world is a fine place and worth fighting for.' I agree with the second part."

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 Post subject: Re: Guided Tour Thread: Yield
PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 9:39 pm 
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digster wrote:
durdencommatyler wrote:
Here's my question... in regard to Brain Of J specifically... what about GTF suggests that it's hopefull on the surface and darker underneath that isn't also suggested by Brain Of J? I feel like there's an argument that Brain Of J is an ultimately hopeful song, fine. But I just don't hear that. Other than the words, "the whole world will be releaved," I don't hear anything in the music or lyric that suggests hope. And I question whether or not the aforementioned line is sung with hope in mind. I guess it depends on what the world will be releaved of. What does everyone think Ed is referring to -- specifically -- when he says "releaved?" The whole world will be releaved of...... ?


These are all really cool points. For me, the positive part of Brain of J is that chorus; whatever the specifics of the world being relieved, I think the fact that the chorus seems to be in response to the verses makes it clear it'd be a break from the horrors expressed in the verse. The other optimistic point is in the bridge, when he rejects the "name" given to him presumably by the antagonists in the song. It could be his schooling, their attempts to make him into a machine, any number of possibilities, but in that moment he rejects it. Even though some may view that as an escape from their clutches, I think it is a defiant act and an engaged one.

The thing about GTF I'm not sure I get; I understand that the song has instances of darkness (after all, the narrator is stripped and stabbed, although that's really the only instance of darkness in the entire song). But how can a song with this as its climax

And he still gives his love
He just gives it away
And the love that's recieved
Is the love that is saved
And sometimes is seen
A strange spot in the sky
A human being
That was given to fly

be a "dark" song? Maybe someone who feels this way about the song can show me, cause I can't see it as being anything other than a hopeful sentiment.

Excellent response. :thumbsup: Very much what I was hoping for in a lot of ways. (sidenote: sorry about the horrible spelling and grammar in my original post... :shake: I'm glad you could figure out what I was typing. :D )

The verses of 'Brain' are very dark and tongue. Very powerful and agressive. It does stand to reason that the chorus is a direct response to those sentiments. I agree. Coupled with the bridge, it strikes me that this song is the beginning of the shut down; the removal. That is, if the overall theme of Yield is sort of a removal from the situation at hand. Again, the "boom" at the end of the song sounds so much like a slamming door. I wonder if the person in this song is noting the world around them, rejecting that world as it is, and (rather than fight to change it), is retreating from it and hiding out until that world "is relieved." Of course, the uplifting message being the protagonists unwavering hope that the world will, in fact, be relieved.

I think that's interesting because it is very different from the outward resistance that PJ writes about in their music prior to Yield (specifically on VS and Vitalogy). This theme of seeing the world in a certain light, but then deciding to live outside of that world and waiting for a change rather than activating change is again repeated in Given To Fly. That's really interesting. I'll have to think about this for a while and see if I can figure out how I feel about all of it. Brain of J in particular, because I think this is the hardest song on the album for me to graps in terms of meaning and theme and direction. Thanks again, diggie.

We haven't gotten to GTF yet... but I'm with you so far, digster, in that GTF is (to me) a very uplifting song. It has dark imagery, yes. But the protaganist overcomes that darkness -- or rather leaves (or retreats from) that darkness to achieve something positive within. A very strong and uplifting message, indeed.

What's fascinating to me is that I still think stip is really onto something with his theory of a premature enlightenment on behalf of the band at this point in their career. I have to reconcile what I think this album is first and then try to see it with stip's lense. He may be wrong, but something about his assesment just feels right to me... I wonder if the band really was feeling like it was starting to get things figured out and then they realized they had no idea. That realization of course being the birth of Binaural. Which, like it or hate it, I think we can all agree is one of their most difficult albums.... interesting... but maybe not... because they turn right around and deliver Riot Act which has much more hope than many give it credit for... a lot to think about and wade through... I can't wait to further all of this in the upcoming track discussions.

Good talk. Thanks everyone. :thumbsup:

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 Post subject: Re: Guided Tour Thread: Yield
PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 9:41 pm 
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StoneIrons wrote:
Given to Fly kind of reminds me of Morgan Freeman's last line from the movie Seven: "Ernest Hemingway once wrote, 'The world is a fine place and worth fighting for.' I agree with the second part."

:thumbsup:

Yes!

Very nice. That's exactly it, I think.

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 Post subject: Re: Guided Tour Thread: Yield
PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 9:47 pm 
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stip wrote:
What I'm arguing (and maybe i'll retreat from this in the end--I'm gonna play this out as we go through) is that while Digster is probably right and Yield is an album about journeys (an interpretation that makes a lot of sense) there is a lot of 'surrender' in yield (which, in a lot of ways, is what the title means)--a sense that if we just stop fighting we can somehow stop searching. This is most prevelant in a song like In Hiding but it crops up throughout. Or alternately, we can run away and escape (see stuff like MFC and ATY). But in both cases they're trying to avoid something rather than confront it, or make their peace with it rather than change it. And this rings false to me, even if they really wanted it to be true. I used the analogy earlier of trying to convince yourself you're in love with someone because you don't want to be alone anymore. That works for a time, but it isn't really sustainable, and I think those cracks start to appear in Binaural.

Again, this doesn't take away from Yield as a record. This is a comment on interpretation, not the quality of the songs.


To me, what makes it work as a whole is that when the album is is "yield" mode (as you say, most prominently in In Hiding, MFC, and ATY, but elsewhere as well), is the question of what the song is advocating you yield or escape from. I have the general sense that those songs advocate escape from the negative. "It's no crime to escape," to me just means that you don't have to fight every battle. There is shit in the world. This is the way of the world. You can fight it and spend all your energy fighting through life. Or you can turn away from that and escape to the positive. MFC and In hiding both advocate escaping to one's own company, of course, but sometimes that's necessary to wash the negative off and allow you to be able to come back and be "an ear" or engage with people in a positive way.


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 Post subject: Re: Guided Tour Thread: Yield
PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 9:49 pm 
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durdencommatyler wrote:
mray10 wrote:
Yield does have ambiguity, and it fairly obvious based on our discussions. Everything about Given To Fly suggests that it's a hopeful song, an empowering anthem. But clearly there's enough other stuff going on in the song that if you look at it closely, you start to wonder--how hopeful is this song really? The same holds true for the album as a whole.

Many people have shared this sentiment in this thread. However, mray makes a solid point that "the same holds true for the album as a whole."

Here's my question... in regard to Brain Of J specifically... what about GTF suggests that it's hopefull on the surface and darker underneath that isn't also suggested by Brain Of J? I feel like there's an argument that Brain Of J is an ultimately hopeful song, fine. But I just don't hear that. Other than the words, "the whole world will be releaved," I don't hear anything in the music or lyric that suggests hope. And I question whether or not the aforementioned line is sung with hope in mind. I guess it depends on what the world will be releaved of. What does everyone think Ed is referring to -- specifically -- when he says "releaved?" The whole world will be releaved of...... ?

The "sonic boom" at the end of the song has always sounded more forbodding to me than anything. I hear doors slamming, world's ending, explosions destroying. It's grand in scope. But so is most of PJ's music. They have a remarkable ability to be so intimate in their points while being so sweeping in their conversations. I guess, for me, if Yield is the band looking outward, rather than inward, I guess I don't understand most of Ten, VS and No Code. I don't want to jump the gun here, but when Ed sings "I'm through with screaming" I don't think he means that he's trying an alternate approach to communication ("if I stop screaming and start whispering, maybe they'll listen"). I think he's saying he's done communicating (in the context of the song, he's done communicating with god). So, if anything Yield isn't about looking outward instead of inward, it's about learning to stop looking and just being. And in order to do that you have to remove yourself from the situation. Yield is PJ trying to remove themselves from the situation.

There is something very accessable and loveable about Yield. I agree. But just as I don't see Riot Act as PJ's "darkest" album, I don't see Yield as their lightest -- or most open -- or transformative. The band itself seems to have stripped away some of it's own baggage, perhaps, so the music is more accessable and whimsical than the last few albums. They don't feel like they're trying as hard on Yield (in a good way)... but if GTF fly is covertly dark, then I think we have to acknowledge that (at least) so is Brain of J.

This thread is fantastic, by the way. I'm really not trying to be contrary for the sake of being contrary or anything like that. I love this discussion and I just felt the urge to put in my two cents. There are some fantastic points (and points of view) being presented and expressed. Thank you to everyone who is participating. :thumbsup:


I don't see the positive in Brain of J. Then again, it's essentially the oldest song on the album. It debuted in 1995, and the lyrics didn't change much if at all (if I recall correctly). And, lyrically, it makes a lot more sense in the Vitalogy/No Code era than it does on Yield.

But, as digster pointed out well, this is why it opens the album. It's the nod to the past, before the door is opened to something different. If it was going to be on the album, it had to lead off.


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 Post subject: Re: Guided Tour Thread: Yield
PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 9:53 pm 
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StoneIrons wrote:
Given to Fly kind of reminds me of Morgan Freeman's last line from the movie Seven: "Ernest Hemingway once wrote, 'The world is a fine place and worth fighting for.' I agree with the second part."


Excellent comparison.

G2F is about the joy of the struggle, the triumph of will, the triump of positive thinking over the negative. Such stories are often dark, and G2F is--as Jambi rightly points out--but the story isn't the whole of the song.


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 Post subject: Re: Guided Tour Thread: Yield
PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 10:16 pm 
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mray10 wrote:
durdencommatyler wrote:
mray10 wrote:
Yield does have ambiguity, and it fairly obvious based on our discussions. Everything about Given To Fly suggests that it's a hopeful song, an empowering anthem. But clearly there's enough other stuff going on in the song that if you look at it closely, you start to wonder--how hopeful is this song really? The same holds true for the album as a whole.

Many people have shared this sentiment in this thread. However, mray makes a solid point that "the same holds true for the album as a whole."

Here's my question... in regard to Brain Of J specifically... what about GTF suggests that it's hopefull on the surface and darker underneath that isn't also suggested by Brain Of J? I feel like there's an argument that Brain Of J is an ultimately hopeful song, fine. But I just don't hear that. Other than the words, "the whole world will be releaved," I don't hear anything in the music or lyric that suggests hope. And I question whether or not the aforementioned line is sung with hope in mind. I guess it depends on what the world will be releaved of. What does everyone think Ed is referring to -- specifically -- when he says "releaved?" The whole world will be releaved of...... ?

The "sonic boom" at the end of the song has always sounded more forbodding to me than anything. I hear doors slamming, world's ending, explosions destroying. It's grand in scope. But so is most of PJ's music. They have a remarkable ability to be so intimate in their points while being so sweeping in their conversations. I guess, for me, if Yield is the band looking outward, rather than inward, I guess I don't understand most of Ten, VS and No Code. I don't want to jump the gun here, but when Ed sings "I'm through with screaming" I don't think he means that he's trying an alternate approach to communication ("if I stop screaming and start whispering, maybe they'll listen"). I think he's saying he's done communicating (in the context of the song, he's done communicating with god). So, if anything Yield isn't about looking outward instead of inward, it's about learning to stop looking and just being. And in order to do that you have to remove yourself from the situation. Yield is PJ trying to remove themselves from the situation.

There is something very accessable and loveable about Yield. I agree. But just as I don't see Riot Act as PJ's "darkest" album, I don't see Yield as their lightest -- or most open -- or transformative. The band itself seems to have stripped away some of it's own baggage, perhaps, so the music is more accessable and whimsical than the last few albums. They don't feel like they're trying as hard on Yield (in a good way)... but if GTF fly is covertly dark, then I think we have to acknowledge that (at least) so is Brain of J.

This thread is fantastic, by the way. I'm really not trying to be contrary for the sake of being contrary or anything like that. I love this discussion and I just felt the urge to put in my two cents. There are some fantastic points (and points of view) being presented and expressed. Thank you to everyone who is participating. :thumbsup:


I don't see the positive in Brain of J. Then again, it's essentially the oldest song on the album. It debuted in 1995, and the lyrics didn't change much if at all (if I recall correctly). And, lyrically, it makes a lot more sense in the Vitalogy/No Code era than it does on Yield.

But, as digster pointed out well, this is why it opens the album. It's the nod to the past, before the door is opened to something different. If it was going to be on the album, it had to lead off.

Agreed.

Another solid point, mray. Sometimes we want to paint things into a picture that we want to see. It's good to remember that these songs do exist outside of a theme or overall concept sometimes. I often forget that Brain Of J is an older song and perhaps should be viewed/considered in and of itself as well as (or even perhaps instead of) a piece of a larger whole. This might explain why Brain of J is so hard for me to wrap my mind around. Because it simply doesn't belong. Which, as you and digster say, is why it has to start the album. And if that was conscious on the band's part it genious.

It also diminishes some of the potential positive or uplifting elements of the song for me. Put in it's proper context the irony, the cynicism of the song really shines through. Perhaps the "sonic boom" then should be seen more as a closing off of the past. Slamming the doors on what once was. But then we arrive at Faithful which is also dripping with cynicism and contempt.... so maybe Yield isn't as far removed from No Code and Vitalogy as many have suggested. I don't know.

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 Post subject: Re: Guided Tour Thread: Yield
PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 10:53 pm 
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Jambi wrote:

The song is horribly depressing.


How so? It's certainly not a happy, weightless songs; the issues it deals with can be very difficult (albeit ambigiously presented), but depressing? I'm just not seeing that, personally.


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 Post subject: Re: Guided Tour Thread: Yield
PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 4:35 am 
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durdencommatyler wrote:

The verses of 'Brain' are very dark and tongue. Very powerful and agressive. It does stand to reason that the chorus is a direct response to those sentiments. I agree. Coupled with the bridge, it strikes me that this song is the beginning of the shut down; the removal. That is, if the overall theme of Yield is sort of a removal from the situation at hand. Again, the "boom" at the end of the song sounds so much like a slamming door. I wonder if the person in this song is noting the world around them, rejecting that world as it is, and (rather than fight to change it), is retreating from it and hiding out until that world "is relieved." Of course, the uplifting message being the protagonists unwavering hope that the world will, in fact, be relieved.

I think that's interesting because it is very different from the outward resistance that PJ writes about in their music prior to Yield (specifically on VS and Vitalogy). This theme of seeing the world in a certain light, but then deciding to live outside of that world and waiting for a change rather than activating change is again repeated in Given To Fly. That's really interesting. I'll have to think about this for a while and see if I can figure out how I feel about all of it. Brain of J in particular, because I think this is the hardest song on the album for me to graps in terms of meaning and theme and direction. Thanks again, diggie.




Something I'd thought of today. We've had alot of good talk thus far about how the disengagement being presented as an option during Yield is an act of "running away" from one's problems, waiting for a change and permanently removing yourself from the equation. Well, I think we have many examples in the past decade of the band putting the lessons of Yield to use. We've heard many stories of Eddie removing himself from society when writing, coming back recharged. He took it upon himself to write the story of Christopher McCandless, an example of total disengagement if ever there was one, and looked upon his tale with sympathy and understanding. Not to mention the songs on later albums that seem to allow for a certain level of disengagement, if only to get a better understanding of the world and the relationships in which you participate.

So maybe this should be directed at Stip as well, because I think all of these things, vital parts of PJ's (and more specifically Eddie's) identity, would seem to argue against the idea that the stances taken on Yield are "against the grain of the band."

Also, for those of you interested, Faithfull should be up by tomorrow night.


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 Post subject: Re: Guided Tour Thread: Yield
PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 5:22 am 
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on one of the australian 2003 official boots, eddie intro's GTF by saying 'this is about a guy who quit smoking'. no idea if he was joking or not

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 Post subject: Re: Guided Tour Thread: Yield
PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 5:25 am 
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pappas99 wrote:
on one of the australian 2003 official boots, eddie intro's GTF by saying 'this is about a guy who quit smoking'. no idea if he was joking or not


A joke. He talked about the song a little more in depth around the time of Yield's release, basically saying that it's about rising above other people's negativity and remaining positive.

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 Post subject: Re: Guided Tour Thread: Yield
PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 5:45 pm 
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Here's track 2, hopefully you enjoy...I'm really gonna try editing these responses down a bit but there's just alot to talk about, especially with this song.

FAITHFULL



A steady Irons beat, and we‘re off. “Faithfull” is similar to “Brain Of J” in several ways that separate both tunes from the majority of the songs on the Yield albums. Look at the songs that follow “Faithfull” for a moment; viewing them as a conversation on the various journeys available to both the band and humanity, the majority of them stress a “commitment to” something, whether it’s a romantic partner, the feeling of riding the car into the sunset, and the trials and triumphs of a temporary enforced separation from the world. “Brain Of J”, however, finds it’s strength and purpose in the “rejection of” something (in the case of that song, the rejection of the oppression a government has forced upon its’ people). Eddie drops the name he’s been given, and whether you think he’s committing to change the world or going to hide away from it, no one can deny that this is a defiant act, and he refuses to accept the legitimacy of the powers that be. He commits to the same action here, although the song has a far different antagonist.

I’ve always viewed “Faithfull” as a brave song, and not solely because it’s a song that describes athiesm. The stance of athiesm is often defined in passive terms; critics view it as a belief in nothing, so it can only be understood as the negative reaction to a positive belief in a creator. This grants an athiest no agency, no possibility for pride in his decisions or choices. It becomes a passive refusal of an option, as opposed to a viable option in its’ own right. Eddie frames the choice here as a choice to commit to something, as opposed to athiesm simply being a form of rejection. It is an active, positive decision.

If that sounds like I just completely contradicted the previous paragraph, I did in a sense. “Faithfull” is still a song that describes a commitment to an ideal. It’s just that both “Brain Of J” and “Faithfull” are the only songs on the album that take a significant amount of time to describe what exactly it is that is being rejected (I.e singling out specific institutions, forms of belief, etc. as the subject of the narrator‘s disapproval).

The first verse opens with a startling piece of imagery, Eddie noting that it’s “rare to come upon a bridge that has not been around or been stepped on.” The second half of the verse further explains the reasoning behind the action the narrator is about to take. Whatever “notions” are encased in our pleas to the Almighty are inconsequential, because the details are irrelevant. It is all white noise to our Father, with no prayers escaping his disinterest in our plights. Seeing the futility in screaming at the heavens for answers when it only serves to provide consternation and confusion, the narrator takes the decisive action and stops the conversation. I still believe, despite the fact that God is made a character in the song (“the man upstairs”), that the narrator discontinues his pleas because he believes that there is no man upstairs, but I don’t think the analysis of the song suffers whether you believe he thinks there is no God or an uncaring God.

Notice how the music increases in volume and intensity once Eddie proclaims that he is “through with screaming.” The change suggests that despite the fact that Eddie will become quiet, this rejection is actually a very loud response. If you define the act of screaming as an expression of unbridled emotion or sensation , the rise in temperature after that line suggests that his decision to reject God is the real outburst.

The “echoes” of the pre-chorus are the multitude of prayers being offered by God’s children to a God that has seemingly not answered. What does an echo do? It reverberates and returns one’s own speech back towards them. When I hear Eddie describe the “echoes that nobody hears” I’m reminded of screaming in a massive, empty room, with only your own bellowing to serve as your companion. What is doubly difficult about this notion is that those who pray do not seem to hear their own echoes coming back at them; they do not acknowledge that their prayers go unanswered, and are therefore caught in an endless loop (“now they’ve got you in line”, indeed).

Although some consider the chorus uninspired, I think the first repetition of it is quite clever, in addition to being a fantastic sing-along. It’s certainly sarcastic in tone, Eddie personifying those who do not hear the echoes of their unanswered prayers and continue to give up their lives and even thought processes to a concept that does not return the favor of needed counsel. The fact that it’s such a sing-along reinforces the ease of belief. The band even bring the point home in the vocal (“it goes LIKE THIS”). I don’t recall a PJ song before this when they so purposefully framed a chorus as a ‘pop hook’. When an arena sings that in unison, they engage in an act of indoctrination, just like those who do not hear the echoes. Eddie likely considers a concert a more healthy example of community, but it still does not change the definition. It shows how easy it is to succumb to this mode of living, in facets of life beyond the reaches of the church.

A great bridge and a re-iteration of the chorus. I’d agree with those who are thinking that, thus far, “Faithfull” is a pretty dire song. The narrator has taken the positive action of removing himself from the shackles of such a belief, but there are still many who have been left behind. What is there to say to them? The last verse acts as a coda, with the first few lines expounding on the arguments that led him to this point. The belief system that revolves around the notion of a God functions as “a box of fear” that silences the voice inside all of us that advocates independence, self-reliance, and a journey with passions of our own choosing. However, the last few lines say so much with so little. The narrator suggests that he has found his belief system in the joy and mystery of a romantic relationship, and he promises to be “faithful” to his partner so the union perseveres. I don’t believe it is a coincidence that Eddie uses the exact same word to describe his bond with his partner as he did to question the religious during the chorus. The use of the same word expresses a commonality between himself and “the flock” that had not yet appeared in the song. While some read the phrase “me you, you me, it’s all related” as being between the narrator and his partner, I hear it as being between the narrator and those who do not hear the echo of their prayers. Despite the tangibility of love, faith and belief are still required to keep it afloat, for love, although it can be expressed physically, is not in and of itself physical. It requires faith in your partner to be honest about their intentions towards you. It requires faith in yourself that you can overcome challenges that may hinder your union. So much of love requires a removal from reason similar to what “the flock“ must engage in to keep their belief system intact. I don’t think by the end of the song that the narrator views himself as being like that flock, but he sees similarities that remove the judgment inherent in his earlier diatribes. Instead of mocking the religious, he expresses sadness that the box of fear drowns out their inner voices. There is empathy and commonality whereas there was little, if any, earlier. Through this lens you can even view the second repetition of the chorus as a less cynical posture. It is the narrator yielding to the realization that we are all faithful in our own ways, and therefore our thought processes do not divide as violently as we may have thought.

As I write about it, I no longer think “Brain of J” is the transition piece into Yield. I think many of the posters such as durdencommatyler were right about it being a bit more dire and negative. I think it still works as a prologue, but the real transition into the heart of Yield happens during “Faithfull.” Cynicism gives way to finding common ground. Shouting at the rails gives way to finding your own path, trying to find a way to better the world while (and by) bettering yourself. Anger leads to empathy. The judgments that were prevalent in “Brain Of J” and the early section of “Faithfull” will not appear on the album again, except for a brief moment in “Given To Fly.” This is not to say that Yield is a “happy” album from here on out, but it does ease up significantly on the contempt (for those of you ask, “what about ‘Evolution’, I agree, in a sense; I’ll write about it when I get there, but I do view the anger in that song as being different then what’s happening in Brain of J and here).

Something I noticed about the music; “Faithfull” strikes me as being the song that is most reminiscent of the riffing style employed on Ten and Vs. (which is really interesting, considering that most of those were Stone compositions, and this is a McCready track). Although I do play guitar, my ability to express myself coherently on these kinds of things is extremely limited. When I hear the riffs on the earlier albums, there’s a fluidity to them, consistently moving despite the fact that there are no abrupt shifts. I don’t say this to the detriment of the later, Eddie-on-guitar dominated work; I think many of those songs would not work as well without the emphasis on power and open chords and flirtations with abrasiveness that he brought to the table. However, when the pre-chorus, chorus, and bridge of “Faithfull” take flight (especially the bridge), I’m reminded of the guitar interplay on songs like “Even Flow” and it had been a while since that dynamic of the band had been explored on record.


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 Post subject: Re: Guided Tour Thread: Yield
PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 7:10 pm 
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Jambi wrote:

He could've tuned in, tuned in
But he tuned out
A bad time, nothing could save him
Alone in a corridor, waiting, locked out
He got up outta there, ran for hundreds of miles
He made it to the ocean, had a smoke in a tree
The wind rose up, set him down on his knee

A wave came crashing like a fist to the jaw
Delivered him wings, 'Hey, look at me now'
Arms wide open with the sea as his floor
Oh, power, oh
He's.. flying.....whole

He floated back down 'cause he wanted to share
His key to the locks on the chains he saw everywhere
But first he was stripped and then he was stabbed
By faceless men, well, fuckers
He still stands


The song is horribly depressing.

He triumphs in the end inspite of everything. In the last verse, he shares his success with others, so it becomes even more than a singular triumph.

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 Post subject: Re: Guided Tour Thread: Yield
PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 7:35 pm 
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That was a great post digster. I've got nothing to add to it or challenge in it (at least right now :) ). I've got some issues with faithful as a song but that was a most excellent take on what the song is trying to do.

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 Post subject: Re: Guided Tour Thread: Yield
PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 8:56 pm 
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Excellent, excellent write-up digster. :thumbsup:

Thank you for this thread. It's helping me look at this album in a different way. And that's never a bad thing. I'll have more to add later when I'm not at work and can focus. But as it stands, I agree with almost everything you said in this analysis of Faithful. Top notch.

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 Post subject: Re: Guided Tour Thread: Yield
PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 9:06 pm 
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Great post.

This is such a complicated song to me. The chorus has never felt at all sarcastic to me. Add in the personal declaration of faith at the end of the song and there's a lot of evidence here that this is a song of empathy--an admission that we all put our faith in something.

Then again, the verses offer a lot of lyrics that I cannot reconcile as being empathetic. I could almost more easily put the first verse in that category than the second, which opines that myths keep us in a "box of fear," and drown out the voice inside of us. The "voice" reference there seems to recall the voices of prayer from the first verse--Ed seems to be saying that voices raised in prayers (that go unheard) drown out our own voices inside.

These two ideas just don't fit together for me, unless you take it to the extreme idea that the final lines' declaration of faith in a partner is also supposed to be viewed as cynically as religious faith. That would be a reasonable interpretation at least--a cynical song about faith that ends with an admission that the singer has faith himself, in something's that probably equally ridiculous.

But I just can't go there with this song. Maybe I'm supposed to. Maybe digster is dead-on and the catchy, universal feeling of the chorus is designed to be subversive--like that Blues Traveler song, "it doesn't matter what I say, as long as I sing with inflection." I just don't want to believe that.


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