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 Post subject: Let's Actually Listen to the Albums: No Code
PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2011 3:46 pm 
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The purpose of these threads is to take the time and go back and listen to the Pearl Jam albums you remember but haven't sat down with in a long time. What did you think? Is it what you remembered? Give the album a spin and talk about it.









Part I: Ten
Part II: Vs.
Part III: Vitalogy

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 Post subject: Re: Let's Actually Listen to the Albums: No Code
PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2011 4:00 pm 
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No Code was the first Pearl Jam record I ever heard where I was disappointed. really the only one, actually. The other records that rank towards the bottom for me I liked more at first than I came to later--songs got benefits of the doubt and i was just excited for new music. But No Code was the first time Pearl Jam ever let me down. The first three records were quite possibly my favorite 3 records of all time. They were all impossibly good, in my eyes (Vs. has dropped considerably since then but Vitalogy and Ten are still 1 and 3). And so No Code was a blow to the face. I tried really hard to love it, and there were some good songs for sure, but No Code was where Pearl Jam fell to earth, for me anyway. I have a lot more appreciation for what they were trying to do now than I did then, but in the end it's always been a comparatively mediocre set of songs for me. Lets see how much that's changed. it's been a while.

I like how wet and rainy Sometimes is. It's a pretty song and I like the music. I don't like how Eddie sounds here. A little too nasal--almost a whine. I like the list sequence in the song, but I like lists.

Part of my problem with sometimes (a lot of the songs on this record) is that the writing strikes me as a high schooler's attempt to think deep thoughts. The lyrics on No Code never impressed me all that much. After how sublime the best moments on the other records were this struck me not as lazy, but immature, and since this is their 'mature' album that never sat right with me.

I hate the Hail hail transition. It makes no sense. It's jarring and kills the mood for no real reason. I've come to enjoy the Hail Hail music a lot more over the years, and the lyrics are great. this is probably the best written song on the record. But again Eddie doesn't sound like Eddie to me. It's like he's holding his nose while he's singing. I like the engine gunning sound at around 1:15 (and it reappears throughout the song)--in general the way the song gets colored is pretty cool. Some really good lines "are we bound out of obligation/is that all we got" is my favorite. although "I sometimes realize I can only be as good as you let me is also great". if Hail hail the lucky ones i refer to those in love came out today people would rip it apart.

I don't think I like jack's drumming here. The end of Hail hail is one of the weaker outros that they have.


Who You Are is a fun song musically. I like how it sounds almost like they're making it up on the spot. This is a song I appreciated more as I got older and started trying to accept songs on their own terms rather than what I wanted them to be. If it's not trying to be deep I like the song a lot. If it is then it's a little embarrassing, although the 'take me for a ride' sequences are pretty good. Again, if this came out today people would rip the lyrics apart.

I think i'd like to see who you are follow sometimes and then have hail hail--or maybe have in my tree next and put hail hail with smile. I'm not sure. i never liked how no code was sequenced.

I like the music in the outro. Once again I don't really care for how Eddie sounds. compared to all the other records. This one and Riot Act are the albums where I like the vocals the least.

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 Post subject: Re: Let's Actually Listen to the Albums: No Code
PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2011 4:04 pm 
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i pretty much listen to it every other day... unfortunately i have a road trip so i cant post on it.

just take everything Stip says and reverse it. that will be my opinion.

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 Post subject: Re: Let's Actually Listen to the Albums: No Code
PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2011 4:08 pm 
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man these transitions feel abrupt. This is too much like a mix tape (yeah yeah I know--there's No Code-- i get it. But it feels more like No Direction).

I like the guitars in this one a lot. Eddie soars here but he's still holding his nose. I wish the drums were louder in the mix. They feel a little anemic given the way this song seems to want to roll along. I wish the whole song was louder, actually. Maybe it's supposed to sound like he's singing down from the top of his tree.

I don't like trees as a metaphor. I prefer waves. I don't like the bridge. The music is really urgent in the last verse. it's pretty cool--it's good at making this sound important. Thank god eddie can deliver lyrics like 'lets say that knowledge is a tree' to give the music something really profound to anchor.

In My Tree remains a 5 star song trapped in a 4 star song. That's probably always been part of my issue with No Code I think. The songs that are supposed to elevate the album never do that for me.

Smile sure is a crunchy song. It's much louder than In My Tree. Why is the volume all over the place on this record? if In My Tree hit as hard as smile i would like it more. I used to really dislike the lyrics to smile, but now I think they're pretty sweet. I don't like Neil Young so Eddie trying to sing like him (am I off on that? that's what I hear) doesn't do much for me.

I miss you already is a touching line--I'm glad he doesn't overwork it. and the three crooked hearts image is nice.

I'm not sure why this song is following Smile or why Off He Goes is gonna follow it.

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 Post subject: Re: Let's Actually Listen to the Albums: No Code
PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2011 4:10 pm 
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stip wrote:
Part of my problem with sometimes (a lot of the songs on this record) is that the writing strikes me as a high schooler's attempt to think deep thoughts. The lyrics on No Code never impressed me all that much. After how sublime the best moments on the other records were this struck me not as lazy, but immature, and since this is their 'mature' album that never sat right with me.


I like No Code more than you, but I think I would agree with this statement. This album came out when I was a junior in high school and I can remember laying on my bed in the dark listening to I'm open thinking very deep thoughts about what it's like to be an adult. Now I'm an adult and that line just sounds to me like what a pretentious teenager would think being an adult is like.

The Hail Hail chorus, which you also mention, is right there too. "Hail hail the lucky ones I refer to those in love" could easily be from a terrible poem produced in a high school or college creative writing class.

That said, I don't hold that against either of those songs. hail Hail feels earned and ... I dunno I just like I'm Open, even now. Who You Are has lyrics that are bizarre, bordering on the nonsensical (and in some cases just flat wrong) but it remains one of my favorite tracks from the album. I always enjoy hearing it.


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 Post subject: Re: Let's Actually Listen to the Albums: No Code
PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2011 4:13 pm 
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Off He Goes sounds like it was recorded the same rainy day that Sometimes was. Musically this is more appealing than I remember. I haven't heard this one in a while.

Ahh, that's why I don't like this one much. for fuck's sake eddie, just blow your nose already.

I've always though the lyrics on this song were among the most self indulgent Eddie ever wrote. Musically this song deserves better than the the lyrics eddie gave it. There is just waaayyy too much high school poetry on this record.

This is actually a well sung song by Eddie--I just don't like how he sounds when he sings it, if that makes sense.

Man, more and more it is becoming clear to me that Eddie is the real reason I'm not enjoying No Code more.

Okay, this song is overlong. At four minutes I'm ready for this to be over.

The outro is nice but I've already lost interest in this song, and it's not good enough to win me back. Is it time for Habit yet?

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 Post subject: Re: Let's Actually Listen to the Albums: No Code
PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2011 4:13 pm 
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mray10 wrote:
stip wrote:
Part of my problem with sometimes (a lot of the songs on this record) is that the writing strikes me as a high schooler's attempt to think deep thoughts. The lyrics on No Code never impressed me all that much. After how sublime the best moments on the other records were this struck me not as lazy, but immature, and since this is their 'mature' album that never sat right with me.


I like No Code more than you, but I think I would agree with this statement. This album came out when I was a junior in high school and I can remember laying on my bed in the dark listening to I'm open thinking very deep thoughts about what it's like to be an adult. Now I'm an adult and that line just sounds to me like what a pretentious teenager would think being an adult is like.

The Hail Hail chorus, which you also mention, is right there too. "Hail hail the lucky ones I refer to those in love" could easily be from a terrible poem produced in a high school or college creative writing class.

That said, I don't hold that against either of those songs. hail Hail feels earned and ... I dunno I just like I'm Open, even now. Who You Are has lyrics that are bizarre, bordering on the nonsensical (and in some cases just flat wrong) but it remains one of my favorite tracks from the album. I always enjoy hearing it.


do you think who you are is supposed to be serious?

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 Post subject: Re: Let's Actually Listen to the Albums: No Code
PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2011 4:15 pm 
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When this album came out, I hated Sometimes as an opener.

When your previous openers are Once / Go / Last Exit, the oh so gentle sounds of Sometimes just don't make the same kind of impression. In time, I came to terms with it, since for better or worse it's the only opener the album is going to have. But, objectively listening now, I still don't think it's great as an album opener. Might work to open a show, and I like it perfectly fine as a song.

On the other hand, I think I would like Sometimes as an opener a lot more if it weren't followed by Hail Hail. If the album just kind of eased its way in slowly and then all hell broke loose at the end, that might be kind of fun ... Sometimes > In My tree > Who You Are ... but then what? i don't know.

This is the album where I like almost every song (sorry Off He Goes) but just don't love them as an album.


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 Post subject: Re: Let's Actually Listen to the Albums: No Code
PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2011 4:21 pm 
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stip wrote:
mray10 wrote:
stip wrote:
Part of my problem with sometimes (a lot of the songs on this record) is that the writing strikes me as a high schooler's attempt to think deep thoughts. The lyrics on No Code never impressed me all that much. After how sublime the best moments on the other records were this struck me not as lazy, but immature, and since this is their 'mature' album that never sat right with me.


I like No Code more than you, but I think I would agree with this statement. This album came out when I was a junior in high school and I can remember laying on my bed in the dark listening to I'm open thinking very deep thoughts about what it's like to be an adult. Now I'm an adult and that line just sounds to me like what a pretentious teenager would think being an adult is like.

The Hail Hail chorus, which you also mention, is right there too. "Hail hail the lucky ones I refer to those in love" could easily be from a terrible poem produced in a high school or college creative writing class.

That said, I don't hold that against either of those songs. hail Hail feels earned and ... I dunno I just like I'm Open, even now. Who You Are has lyrics that are bizarre, bordering on the nonsensical (and in some cases just flat wrong) but it remains one of my favorite tracks from the album. I always enjoy hearing it.


do you think who you are is supposed to be serious?


Not at all. It feels like a group of friends around a campfire making stuff up. There's a few moments that are kind of profound (the sentiment of the "just a little time" lyric has always stirred me), but mostly the feeling I get from the song is summed up by that stop light lyric. It's saying something that's verging on profound, but it's also totally tongue in cheek.


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 Post subject: Re: Let's Actually Listen to the Albums: No Code
PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2011 4:24 pm 
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bmacsmith wrote:

just take everything Stip says and reverse it. that will be my opinion.

:haha:


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 Post subject: Re: Let's Actually Listen to the Albums: No Code
PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2011 4:29 pm 
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Another jarring transition.

Fuck, the music to habit is REALLY good. I haven't listened to this one in a while.

Ahh, eddie moves from his 'holding his nose while he's singing' to his hoarse 1995 screaming. This is too much. I think he gets this sound right starting with S/T.

The lyrics in the verses are pretty good. But the chorus is too weak to carry what it wants to. There's nothing wrong with repeating a simple statement for your chorus, but 'never thought you'd habit' is just a stupid lyric to begin with.

I always thought the 'speaking as a child of the 90s' line was kinda dumb, although the first time I liked the call out to against the 70s.

I like how angry and sloppy this music is--whatever mike is playing underneath the last chorus is pretty cool (I assume it's mike).

I forgot how great the outro is. it's too bad i have to listen to ninety seconds of chorus to get it to it. I kinda like how they stop the song at 2:40 and then basically restart it with the outro. I wonder how this sounds if you just start listening from that point. I checked, pretty good--but it needs the rest of the song.


Red Mosquito is my favorite song on this album. This is the song 1/2 Full wishes it was. The music manages to combine the crunchiness of the rockers on No Code with the anthematic sweep of the earlier records. Eddie could sound a little less nasal but I like the rest of the song so much (the lyrics, his delivery, and the balance between the relatively tame verses and the cacophony in between them). This song just feels really busy in all sorts of interesting ways without feeling cluttered. I wish they had recorded this during Vitalogy. jack's sloppy style fits in well with this song.

He really likes that 'if I had known then what I know now' sentiment since we get the same thing in Hard to Imagine, from basically the same period. This is really the only one of the 'wisdom' songs on this record that i think is convincing. This song doesn't have the high spots that hail hail does but these are probably my favorite overall lyrics.

It's not a five star song, but I really like it. Good choice for the forum name, Buggy.

Lukin is kind of a stupid song. I like the music (I don't know if I would if it was much longer), but Eddie doesn't really sound enraged--he sounds more like he's screaming to scream.


Present Tense is pretty, and has the same liquid sound that the slow songs do on this record. They did a good job with that. Part of me feels that Present Tense is trying too hard to create ATMOSPHERE. It feels more effortless on sometimes, more organic. The stuff stone uses to fill in the spaces around Mike's playing are well chosen. I like the sentiment in the chorus, and I like that the delivery is ambiguous enough that Eddie could be singing can OR can't, and that both of them work. Once again Eddie is singing well but I am not really crazy with how he sounds. "It seems like needlessly it's getting harder to find an approach and a way to live" is a completely clunky and unartful way to say something important. it's lines like that that take me out of the song.

I think Mike is too prominent in the body of the song--it's too stark--too focused on Eddie and Mike--there's too much 'look at me I'm saying something profound' here.

The outro is cool. I think it's the most interesting part of the song.

I always thought they should have ended the song here, especially with the climax at around 4:00 and the starlight chimes that close the song. Here's a nice peaceful way to end the record.

Again, a good song--but I just can't buy enough of what he's selling to make it a great song.

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 Post subject: Re: Let's Actually Listen to the Albums: No Code
PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2011 4:31 pm 
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oh look--they destroyed that lovely peaceful ending with a pointless pop punk number.

I actually kind of like the music here but I don't like Stone singing. I always wondered if I would like this one more if Eddie sang it. Thanks to supersonic I know the answer is no.

Every time I hear Mankind I find myself wishing it was black red yellow or All Night.

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 Post subject: Re: Let's Actually Listen to the Albums: No Code
PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2011 4:32 pm 
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mray10 wrote:
When this album came out, I hated Sometimes as an opener.

When your previous openers are Once / Go / Last Exit, the oh so gentle sounds of Sometimes just don't make the same kind of impression. In time, I came to terms with it, since for better or worse it's the only opener the album is going to have. But, objectively listening now, I still don't think it's great as an album opener. Might work to open a show, and I like it perfectly fine as a song.

On the other hand, I think I would like Sometimes as an opener a lot more if it weren't followed by Hail Hail. If the album just kind of eased its way in slowly and then all hell broke loose at the end, that might be kind of fun ... Sometimes > In My tree > Who You Are ... but then what? i don't know.

This is the album where I like almost every song (sorry Off He Goes) but just don't love them as an album.



I can see that. The sequencing on this album is terrible.

I kinda like the idea of No Code building from loud to quiet (or the other way around)

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 Post subject: Re: Let's Actually Listen to the Albums: No Code
PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2011 4:33 pm 
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mray10 wrote:
stip wrote:
mray10 wrote:
stip wrote:
Part of my problem with sometimes (a lot of the songs on this record) is that the writing strikes me as a high schooler's attempt to think deep thoughts. The lyrics on No Code never impressed me all that much. After how sublime the best moments on the other records were this struck me not as lazy, but immature, and since this is their 'mature' album that never sat right with me.


I like No Code more than you, but I think I would agree with this statement. This album came out when I was a junior in high school and I can remember laying on my bed in the dark listening to I'm open thinking very deep thoughts about what it's like to be an adult. Now I'm an adult and that line just sounds to me like what a pretentious teenager would think being an adult is like.

The Hail Hail chorus, which you also mention, is right there too. "Hail hail the lucky ones I refer to those in love" could easily be from a terrible poem produced in a high school or college creative writing class.

That said, I don't hold that against either of those songs. hail Hail feels earned and ... I dunno I just like I'm Open, even now. Who You Are has lyrics that are bizarre, bordering on the nonsensical (and in some cases just flat wrong) but it remains one of my favorite tracks from the album. I always enjoy hearing it.


do you think who you are is supposed to be serious?


Not at all. It feels like a group of friends around a campfire making stuff up. There's a few moments that are kind of profound (the sentiment of the "just a little time" lyric has always stirred me), but mostly the feeling I get from the song is summed up by that stop light lyric. It's saying something that's verging on profound, but it's also totally tongue in cheek.



I like Who You Are a lot more when I think of it that way, but since the rest of the record is so earnest I have a hard time just letting go (excluding mankind, but stone wrote that).

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 Post subject: Re: Let's Actually Listen to the Albums: No Code
PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2011 4:36 pm 
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I thought I'm Open was really deep when I first heard it. It's still overwrought but I still think it's a very articulate overwroughtness. I don't like Eddie's spoken word pieces. There's rarely any flow to them.

Ugh, I forgot about the 'so this is what it feels like to be an adult' lyric. Man that almost completely invaldiates everything that came before. And we get a recurring of the 'if he knew now what he knew then' lyric. That's what undermines the album for me. I'm not sure Eddie knows now what he thinks he knows now. Not yet, anyway, so a lot of this sounds like earnest posturing.

The I'm Open/Come in chorus goes on WAAAYYY too long, and isn't that great a line, and this isn't that interesting a soundscape to support it.

I like the final lyrics, but this is a worse song than I remember.

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 Post subject: Re: Let's Actually Listen to the Albums: No Code
PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2011 4:37 pm 
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stip wrote:
Another jarring transition.

Fuck, the music to habit is REALLY good. I haven't listened to this one in a while.

Ahh, eddie moves from his 'holding his nose while he's singing' to his hoarse 1995 screaming. This is too much. I think he gets this sound right starting with S/T.

The lyrics in the verses are pretty good. But the chorus is too weak to carry what it wants to. There's nothing wrong with repeating a simple statement for your chorus, but 'never thought you'd habit' is just a stupid lyric to begin with.

I always thought the 'speaking as a child of the 90s' line was kinda dumb, although the first time I liked the call out to against the 70s.

I like how angry and sloppy this music is--whatever mike is playing underneath the last chorus is pretty cool (I assume it's mike).

I forgot how great the outro is. it's too bad i have to listen to ninety seconds of chorus to get it to it. I kinda like how they stop the song at 2:40 and then basically restart it with the outro. I wonder how this sounds if you just start listening from that point. I checked, pretty good--but it needs the rest of the song.



The outtro is really killer, I love those two notes Stone play around the 2:50 marks, as well as Jack's insane drumming (who says he can't rock???). For the most part, I actually agree with you hear. Great music, meh lyrics, and meh vocal delivery.

stip wrote:
oh look--they destroyed that lovely peaceful ending with a pointless pop punk number.

I actually kind of like the music here but I don't like Stone singing. I always wondered if I would like this one more if Eddie sang it. Thanks to supersonic I know the answer is no.

Every time I hear Mankind I find myself wishing it was black red yellow or All Night.


Mankind should have probably been dropped for one of those. On the other hand, I actually like Mankind.


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 Post subject: Re: Let's Actually Listen to the Albums: No Code
PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2011 4:40 pm 
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stip wrote:
Off He Goes sounds like it was recorded the same rainy day that Sometimes was. Musically this is more appealing than I remember. I haven't heard this one in a while.

Ahh, that's why I don't like this one much. for fuck's sake eddie, just blow your nose already.

I've always though the lyrics on this song were among the most self indulgent Eddie ever wrote. Musically this song deserves better than the the lyrics eddie gave it. There is just waaayyy too much high school poetry on this record.

This is actually a well sung song by Eddie--I just don't like how he sounds when he sings it, if that makes sense.

Man, more and more it is becoming clear to me that Eddie is the real reason I'm not enjoying No Code more.

Okay, this song is overlong. At four minutes I'm ready for this to be over.

The outro is nice but I've already lost interest in this song, and it's not good enough to win me back. Is it time for Habit yet?


Off He Goes is brilliant. So you think the lyrics to the Fixer are better? The outtro is flat out superb, and this song, to me, is one of Pearl Jam's best slow songs. What do you think of the LO2L version? I think it's one of the best versions of the song.


Last edited by darth_vedder on Fri Mar 04, 2011 4:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Let's Actually Listen to the Albums: No Code
PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2011 4:40 pm 
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I used to hate Around the Bend as a closer, and it's still one of the ones I like the least. After the triumphs of Release, Indifference, and Immortality (which has always closed vitalogy for me) this was a huge disappointment.

I like this one more now I think. it's different, which I appreciate more now, and it's such a gentle, well meaning song. I wish the lyrics were better, but the sentiment still comes through. this is hardly a great song, but I can appreciate it for what it is, and if No Code was a more peaceful record, or sequenced to be that way, that would help--the context would elevate the song. But there is no rhyme or reason that I can think of as to why the album ends with the three songs it does.

I'm kinda bored with this by the end, but since it's a lullaby I guess that's fine. I like the piano bit around 3:45.

I wish jblagg had covered this during one of the cover tournaments. Or Tom Waits. I'd love to hear this with stalker vocals.

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 Post subject: Re: Let's Actually Listen to the Albums: No Code
PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2011 4:41 pm 
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Ive always felt that opening the record was a bit of a statement.

But then they followed it up with Hail Hail, which felt like chickening out a bit.


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 Post subject: Re: Let's Actually Listen to the Albums: No Code
PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2011 4:43 pm 
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So that was interesting, since No Code doesn't get that much play from me.

There are some songs on here that are just weak. Most of the lyrics don't really convince me of anything, and I don't like how Eddie sounds. On the other hand the music on this album is much better than I remember it being. And while I don't like Eddie's vocals they're still Eddie, so I think they're pretty solid, just not what they could be.

The biggest drawback on this record is the terrible sequencing. A stronger set of songs could survive this, but the songs on here need to be arranged in a way that elevates them, and that doesn't happen.

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The perfect gift for certain occasions


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