You might want to talk to greentea, I believe he had a similar theory.

I usually support everyone wishing to grow a beard. But that as well... I mean.

More Stone, less Ed.

Less of me, more of Jesus.

My theory was about the beard but I believe deep's theory is actually better.

The theory about Beth (with her industry and song-writer connections) helping PJ in the 1990's is the conspiracy I believe the most. So I say more Beth, less Boom.

Where's Dr. Gregor Larson when you need him?

Write better songs and instead of screaming, be urgent and concise.

perhaps. I was responding to a specific 'the setlists are boring' comment and was taking that to mean variety. You all know setlists these days far better than I do. I haven't looked at one in a while. But there were also plenty of complaints on the site about how 'predictable' the variety had become.

I didn't say people forgot backspacer. I said that that a lot of this reads (to me) like a restlessness about the lack of new music and building theories to explain where that came from instead of just the obvious 'I want new music' or 'I just don't like the direction'. This forum has read like that for many many months now (again, to me).


as far as the live stuff goes, of course there is a different tone to the live shows depending on the eras you look at. But


at what point in PJ's history was there a serious exploration of new territory on stage. A few improvs?

that's fair enough. At what point did people really feel like the moods stopped changing? There hasn't been anything 'new' to add to the shows for a while, since that newness would be brought by new songs and the context they bring--the way in which a new album will change the way you think about your music. At least to me this again comes back to the lack of new music more than anything else.

whoever said the 2005 tour changed alot of things nailed it i think. at the time they decided to tour canada to break up the recording process b/c song writing for a new album had become difficult. they also booked 2 random shows in AC in a small venue b/c chris cornell said it was a good place to play. then they had to book an arena show in philly b/c of overwhelming demand for the AC shows. they sold out the entire tour supporting nothing. lost dogs came out 2 years earlier, so they played that stuff alot more and everyone ate it up. then they went to SA and were blown by the entire population. this is when the pj setlist formula began.

Yes, very much so.

Here's some setlists I can't imagine them pulling out now. It's not the presence of any "rare" songs or any crazy variety, it's a mood created through interesting song placements:

06/11/00 – Rock Im Park Festival: Nurnberg, Germany
set: MFC, Habit, Corduroy, Breakerfall, God’s Dice, Animal, Nothing As It Seems, Dissident, Even Flow, Given To Fly, Wishlist, Alive, Off He Goes, Leatherman, Better Man, Once, Lukin, Insignificance, Improv, Rearviewmirror
enc: Black, Spin The Black Circle, Do The Evolution, Light Years, Elderly Woman, Leaving Here, Yellow Ledbetter

12/08/02 – Key Arena: Seattle, WA
set: Elderly Woman, Black, Thumbing My Way, Nothing As It Seems, Given to Fly, Save You, Hail Hail, Ghost, Corduroy, Grievance, Green Disease, I Am Mine, Love Boat Captain, You Are, 1/2 Full, Even Flow, Wishlist, Blood
enc 1: Gimme Some Truth, Bushleaguer, Insignificance, Down, Better Man, Do The Evolution
enc 2: Yellow Ledbetter

10/06/04 – Civic Arena: Asheville, NC
set: Sometimes, Grievance, Corduroy, Hail Hail, Once, Dissident, Even Flow, Daughter/(Blitzkrieg Bop), MFC, U, Not For You, Blood
enc 1: Long Road, Elderly Woman, Sleight Of Hand, Crazy Mary
enc 2: Brain Of J, Do The Evolution, Smile, The New World, Baba O’Riley

The thing is, the problem to me is not just "the obvious 'I want new music or 'I just don't like the direction'". There are plenty more problems than that, there is an actual context to what I'm saying that you want to falsely simplify, and it's all mounting to create a situation in which not only are Pearl Jam stagnant at the moment, there doesn't seem to be any great desire to get unstagnant. And I don't really care much either way. I've been more passionate about this band than any other in my life, for the last 20 years. My fandom has not died hard (yet), but it is slowly flickering out. You might think that all this theorising is just speculation, but that's because you don't seem to be able to discern any problems. If you did, perhaps you'd find some of these theories as plausible as I do. Except for the fact that I didn't say anything about serious exploration of new territory on stage, that was someone else. I might've agreed with it, but that's based on variety of setlists, a greater desire to mix songs up, provide rarities, make stuff up on the spot, improvs. Pearl Jam used to be a very desirable band to watch live. Now... they aren't, unless you're locked into a mindless 'touring band' allegiance. I don't care about that as much as I care about the fact that they don't seem to be that interested in making music for the sake of making music any more; it's all about fulfilling goals in an 'office', and in the most "efficient" way possible. Now, as I've said before, I like Backspacer. And I can assure you that if we'd had Backspacer, and a 5 year gap in which they did nothing (as opposed to a 5 year gap in which they've made a lot of very strange and confusing decisions, and said a lot of strange and confusing things, and generally kept fans in the dark about what we can expect from them in the future), I would be perfectly happy with what this band was doing. I don't need new music now. But I would really like a reason to bother waiting for it. But that's what I'll do, and I hope the next album is stellar.

Somebody put a ridiculously bad performance of 'Animal' up in here the other day. I forget who. Anyway, did that sound like a band that works hard at their performance?

It was fine it was just eds bad vocals. Didnt have anything to do with not bein rehearsed.

Fair point, that. But if I'd seen that live I wouldn't have been happy. It's just one piece of evidence among many that "good enough" is good enough now.

All I would ask of that particular situation is for Ed to acknowledge "hey, my voice is shot tonight, i cant sing that, fuck them, we will play sleight of hand instead"

Agreed. But there have been more and more of those situations, to the point that now a lot of people are thinking he should just put the shouty rock songs down. That was one rock song among many. It's not that this even bothers me as an individual problem, but since King Animal came out, it's been obvious that although Chris Cornell's voice also has its problems, he's going to show up Ed if Ed doesn't start thinking about it. IMHO.

I think this has been more circumstantial than anything--most of the best songs on Backspacer weren't ever really given a fighting chance in concert. But there were some smoking versions of "Got Some" on the 2010 tour. "The End" was consistently done well in 2009-2010. Even "Amongst the Waves," regardless of how you feel about the song, has seen a number of solid live versions. I think it just comes down to what they play regularly enough to really connect with, or what their limitations permit. Nowhere do I think the issue is that the songs are simply not adaptable to the stage.



I don't know, this feels reductive and a little condescending. Very little of what's being discussed has to do with frustration over new music not coming out; most of it is just straight criticism of music that's already out, and frustration with how some of the philosophies the band has openly articulated regarding their approach to songcraft and live performance have manifested themselves in their work. It's true that if they were releasing music at a Neil Young-like rate, the extent of these hypothetical discussions wouldn't be quite so tireless, but it's not like these criticisms would cease if they were releasing a new album every year that sounded just like "S/T"--your position makes it sound like the solution to the problem is just to create more of the problem at a more consistent pace. I don't know, it seems as though at some point you have to just take the content of the criticism for what it is and not dismiss it as some childish, flippant outburst.



You're not. I like both albums a lot too. But I like the run of records that preceded them better.