Listening right now, it occurs (or at least seems...) to me that the only "lyrics" that are meant to clearly be intelligible are:
"My spanking. It's the only thing I want so much." ... and ... "Because you get closer to the person."
In light of recent re-listenings of the albums (and I suppose largely specifically in response to Stip's guided tour of Vitalogy), I've never until just now felt that Stupid Mop warranted its place at the end of the album. But if you accept the notion that Vitalogy is a fourteen-track comment on the relationship between art/artist/audience and the way those relationships can be corrupted and break down, then I think the lyrics cited above do in fact establish this "song" as not only worthy of placement on the record, but even help justify its placement as the final offering on said record.
Post subject: Re: SOTM#94 Hey Foxymophandlemama, that's me (Please read first)
Posted: Sun Mar 13, 2011 5:46 am
Global Moderator
Joined: Tue Nov 30, 2004 4:02 am Posts: 44183 Location: New York Gender: Male
can you say more on why you think the first lyric is relevant?
_________________ "Better the occasional faults of a Government that lives in a spirit of charity than the consistent omissions of a Government frozen in the ice of its own indifference."--FDR
Joined: Thu Mar 03, 2011 11:14 pm Posts: 802 Location: Australia Gender: Male
I actually really like the randomness of having this track close the album. It's a cool weirdly hypnotic little feedback jam. I'm not sure about the significance of the vocal sample as being anything more than a device to weird out the 15 year old girls who would buy it for Betterman though.
can you say more on why you think the first lyric is relevant?
Well, again, starting with your Guided Tour as an initial point of reference (and, again, granting that I'm drunk and only rarely try to put Pearl Jam related thoughts into words) --
1. We have a lyric referencing "spanking" on an album that also contains a song called "Whipping." To hastily pluck a quote from your Whipping write-up: "The choice of title is telling here. Whipping is associated with the image of the master and the slave, the punishment for disobedience, for not obeying the arbitrary rules that you never meaningfully consented to."
2. Continuing in a similar vein to the above, Whipping and Stupid Mop are on the same album as Corduroy, a song which you say is: "...the most important song in Pearl Jam’s catalogue—their mission statement...". I think I agree with that statement, for the record. But, further, it seems to me that if one feels that way about Corduroy (and therefore, I'm assuming, mostly agrees with your write-up's interpretation of it),
3. Before going further, I should make clear this isn't an attempt to play point-counterpoint with things you said in your reviews. I think they're great, and they often cause me to consider ideas I previously had not. That said, I offer some more of your Corduroy comments that I think lend some legitimacy to Stupid Mop. (Again, sorry if this seems like I'm forcing you into arguing with yourself. That's not at all my point.)
Re: Corduroy, from Stip's review:
-- "There is a willingness, almost an insistence, to suffer physically if through that suffering, through that resistance, there is a chance to restore your humanity."
-- "There is a recognition that life is always going to be a constant struggle to preserve your authenticity, your soul, and your self from the larger forces that will spend the rest of your life alternately seducing you or bludgeoning you into submission. "
I think it's thoughts along those lines that lead me to connect the dots to the idea of "spanking" and "getting closer to the person" (for better or, often, worse). I also realize what I'm saying is ripe for contention because I'm largely cherry-picking comments that support my point. But I do think there are relevant connections there. Or at least I do right now on March 13, 2011 at 1:20 a.m. EST.
Post subject: Re: SOTM#94 Hey Foxymophandlemama, that's me (Please read first)
Posted: Sun Mar 13, 2011 5:25 pm
Global Moderator
Joined: Tue Nov 30, 2004 4:02 am Posts: 44183 Location: New York Gender: Male
Jaeti wrote:
stip wrote:
can you say more on why you think the first lyric is relevant?
Well, again, starting with your Guided Tour as an initial point of reference (and, again, granting that I'm drunk and only rarely try to put Pearl Jam related thoughts into words) --
1. We have a lyric referencing "spanking" on an album that also contains a song called "Whipping." To hastily pluck a quote from your Whipping write-up: "The choice of title is telling here. Whipping is associated with the image of the master and the slave, the punishment for disobedience, for not obeying the arbitrary rules that you never meaningfully consented to."
2. Continuing in a similar vein to the above, Whipping and Stupid Mop are on the same album as Corduroy, a song which you say is: "...the most important song in Pearl Jam’s catalogue—their mission statement...". I think I agree with that statement, for the record. But, further, it seems to me that if one feels that way about Corduroy (and therefore, I'm assuming, mostly agrees with your write-up's interpretation of it),
3. Before going further, I should make clear this isn't an attempt to play point-counterpoint with things you said in your reviews. I think they're great, and they often cause me to consider ideas I previously had not. That said, I offer some more of your Corduroy comments that I think lend some legitimacy to Stupid Mop. (Again, sorry if this seems like I'm forcing you into arguing with yourself. That's not at all my point.)
Re: Corduroy, from Stip's review:
-- "There is a willingness, almost an insistence, to suffer physically if through that suffering, through that resistance, there is a chance to restore your humanity."
-- "There is a recognition that life is always going to be a constant struggle to preserve your authenticity, your soul, and your self from the larger forces that will spend the rest of your life alternately seducing you or bludgeoning you into submission. "
I think it's thoughts along those lines that lead me to connect the dots to the idea of "spanking" and "getting closer to the person" (for better or, often, worse). I also realize what I'm saying is ripe for contention because I'm largely cherry-picking comments that support my point. But I do think there are relevant connections there. Or at least I do right now on March 13, 2011 at 1:20 a.m. EST.
It's an interesting argument. I had forgotten what I wrote about stupid mop, actually--I went back to reread it (and angus' post) after you had made that comment.
I still don't think stupid mop should have been on the album in any way other than a hidden track, but that's not to say it doesn't make sense at the end.
_________________ "Better the occasional faults of a Government that lives in a spirit of charity than the consistent omissions of a Government frozen in the ice of its own indifference."--FDR
Post subject: Re: SOTM#94 Hey Foxymophandlemama, that's me (Please read first)
Posted: Sun Mar 13, 2011 5:26 pm
Global Moderator
Joined: Tue Nov 30, 2004 4:02 am Posts: 44183 Location: New York Gender: Male
Jaeti wrote:
3. Before going further, I should make clear this isn't an attempt to play point-counterpoint with things you said in your reviews.
it would be no problem if you were
_________________ "Better the occasional faults of a Government that lives in a spirit of charity than the consistent omissions of a Government frozen in the ice of its own indifference."--FDR
Post subject: Re: SOTM#94 Hey Foxymophandlemama, that's me (Please read first)
Posted: Sun Mar 13, 2011 10:49 pm
Force of Nature
Joined: Thu Mar 03, 2011 11:14 pm Posts: 802 Location: Australia Gender: Male
Angus wrote:
dumbcharger wrote:
I actually really like the randomness of having this track close the album.
It's probably the least random placed song on any of their albums.
Sorry, I wasn't meaning to imply that the placing of this track at the end was random it's more that the inclusion of a slightly spooky 7 minute spoken word/audio sample played over a feedback jam was a pretty left field concept for such a commercial band at the time with a major label release. It was random in the sense that it was unusual, but perhaps no more unusual than the other 'non-songs' on the album.
Post subject: Re: SOTM#94 Hey Foxymophandlemama, that's me (Please read first)
Posted: Wed Mar 16, 2011 7:31 pm
Reissued
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 3:38 pm Posts: 20059 Gender: Male
Jaeti wrote:
stip wrote:
can you say more on why you think the first lyric is relevant?
Well, again, starting with your Guided Tour as an initial point of reference (and, again, granting that I'm drunk and only rarely try to put Pearl Jam related thoughts into words) --
1. We have a lyric referencing "spanking" on an album that also contains a song called "Whipping." To hastily pluck a quote from your Whipping write-up: "The choice of title is telling here. Whipping is associated with the image of the master and the slave, the punishment for disobedience, for not obeying the arbitrary rules that you never meaningfully consented to."
2. Continuing in a similar vein to the above, Whipping and Stupid Mop are on the same album as Corduroy, a song which you say is: "...the most important song in Pearl Jam’s catalogue—their mission statement...". I think I agree with that statement, for the record. But, further, it seems to me that if one feels that way about Corduroy (and therefore, I'm assuming, mostly agrees with your write-up's interpretation of it),
3. Before going further, I should make clear this isn't an attempt to play point-counterpoint with things you said in your reviews. I think they're great, and they often cause me to consider ideas I previously had not. That said, I offer some more of your Corduroy comments that I think lend some legitimacy to Stupid Mop. (Again, sorry if this seems like I'm forcing you into arguing with yourself. That's not at all my point.)
Re: Corduroy, from Stip's review:
-- "There is a willingness, almost an insistence, to suffer physically if through that suffering, through that resistance, there is a chance to restore your humanity."
-- "There is a recognition that life is always going to be a constant struggle to preserve your authenticity, your soul, and your self from the larger forces that will spend the rest of your life alternately seducing you or bludgeoning you into submission. "
I think it's thoughts along those lines that lead me to connect the dots to the idea of "spanking" and "getting closer to the person" (for better or, often, worse). I also realize what I'm saying is ripe for contention because I'm largely cherry-picking comments that support my point. But I do think there are relevant connections there. Or at least I do right now on March 13, 2011 at 1:20 a.m. EST.
I really enjoyed this post. Interesting stuff
_________________ stop light plays its part, so I would say you've got a part
Post subject: Re: SOTM#94 Hey Foxymophandlemama, that's me (Please read first)
Posted: Wed Mar 16, 2011 7:43 pm
Got Some
Joined: Sat Jan 29, 2011 6:12 pm Posts: 1237
Single worst thing PJ ever recorded. I love Vitalogy but in the hundreds of times I've spin this record I've gotten through it once. Just much better uses of 7+ minutes of my time.
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