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Let's actually listen to the albums: Backspacer edition
http://archive.theskyiscrape.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=94600		 Page 5 of 26
Author:  cutuphalfdead [ Wed Apr 06, 2011 10:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Let's actually listen to the albums: Backspacer edition
That's not how modships work. I could use a good campaign manager though.
Author:  Angus [ Wed Apr 06, 2011 10:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Let's actually listen to the albums: Backspacer edition
cutuphalfdead wrote:
That's not how modships work. I could use a good campaign manager though.


I think I'll submit my cv, which includes "leading my own team to a surprising victory in the Battle of the RM'ers against some GD heavyweight teams". Your president stole some of our ideas on how to organise a succesful campaign.
Author:  dimejinky99 [ Wed Apr 06, 2011 10:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Let's actually listen to the albums: Backspacer edition
They'll never let Chud be mod. He'd ban me immediately and then RM would fizzle out and die. Cant have that happening.

Baiting Bateman post.
Author:  62strat [ Wed Apr 06, 2011 10:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Let's actually listen to the albums: Backspacer edition
I was banned at Kats palace. I dont even remember posting on that new board to even get banned.

Chud and Plat would ban the fuck out of me, sure as shit.
Author:  darth_vedder [ Thu Apr 07, 2011 12:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Let's actually listen to the albums: Backspacer edition
Angus wrote:
darth_vedder wrote:
:offtopic:


This is natural discussion and banter leading to positive vibes and an overal good feeling between different members of this community. How can you possibly be against this?


It was a joke regarding all of the above post prior to my post. I could give a shit if threads stay on or off topic.
Author:  clint72 [ Thu Apr 07, 2011 3:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Let's actually listen to the albums: Backspacer edition
Mods usually stay on topic. The hate for this album still amazes me.
Author:  dumbcharger [ Thu Apr 07, 2011 4:03 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Let's actually listen to the albums: Backspacer edition
clint72 wrote:
Mods usually stay on topic. The hate for this album still amazes me.


Yeah, it's not THAT bad. I can see why some people interpret the attempt to write uplifting life-affirming songs for the stadium environment as trying to be commercial and why that turns them off though. I think because it's such a concise and compact set of songs that it doesn't really reveal more upon repeated listens which is why you can get sick of it sooner.
Author:  stip [ Thu Apr 07, 2011 4:03 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Let's actually listen to the albums: Backspacer edition
as long as I don't feel like modding the live forum Chud's dream will live on
Author:  62strat [ Thu Apr 07, 2011 4:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Let's actually listen to the albums: Backspacer edition
Im a bit disappointed that the Backspacer re-listen extravaganza did not take off like the others....

Also, im am not surprised.

I am making my way through the VS/Vitalogy reissue and my mind is being blown again like i was 14 and had no clue what music was supposed to be....
Author:  stip [ Thu Apr 07, 2011 4:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Let's actually listen to the albums: Backspacer edition
dumbcharger wrote:
clint72 wrote:
Mods usually stay on topic. The hate for this album still amazes me.


Yeah, it's not THAT bad. I can see why some people interpret the attempt to write uplifting life-affirming songs for the stadium environment as trying to be commercial and why that turns them off though. I think because it's such a concise and compact set of songs that it doesn't really reveal more upon repeated listens which is why you can get sick of it sooner.



it reveals more than you might think. Part of what turns some (not all) people off of backspacer (among the people with issues) is that we're conditioned to think of complexity and meaning as something that manifests in a particular way. A song like NAIS may sound much deeper than it really is because it's giving the listener the appropriate 'this is a deep song' cues. Backspacer is not a simple record. It's a deceptively simple record, and that stuff that it reveals doesn't appear to the listener in quite the same way. A lot of things that seem casual or simplistic or thrown off in the music reflect (I think) deliberate choices.

you can think of it like abstract art if this helps. If I draw a painting that is just a few geometric pictures on a white canvas it'll just reflect my inability to draw. If a serious artist does so they probably have a reason and it's worth looking past the surface to see what's going on. If I can't play guitar and I have a bunch of songs with simple construction it reflects the limits of my ability. If people who can write something really complicated write something simple it may just be simple (sometimes it is) but it's just as likely that the simple sounding thing is writtten with intention and to make a point. I think that's happening on Backspacer and people often miss it. that's why (for me) there is a difference between people not liking the album because they just don't like the songs (that's personal taste) and people who seem to resent the album for being lazy, overly simplistic, 3 minute diversionary pop songs, not trying, etc. That line of critique misses what the record is trying to accomplish. I think there was a LOT more attention paid to the construction of this record than people often think, and that's because a lot of the songs don't have the immediate appearance of being a song that demands to have itself taken seriously.
Author:  Kevin Davis [ Thu Apr 07, 2011 4:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Let's actually listen to the albums: Backspacer edition
Great post, stip. I agree with all of it.
Author:  Kevin Davis [ Thu Apr 07, 2011 4:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Let's actually listen to the albums: Backspacer edition
62strat wrote:
I am making my way through the VS/Vitalogy reissue and my mind is being blown again like i was 14 and had no clue what music was supposed to be....


Me too. I'd forgotten those little machine-gun fills Dave does leading into the choruses of "RVM." Brilliant. I think I love these albums even more than I thought.
Author:  62strat [ Thu Apr 07, 2011 4:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Let's actually listen to the albums: Backspacer edition
Kevin Davis wrote:
62strat wrote:
I am making my way through the VS/Vitalogy reissue and my mind is being blown again like i was 14 and had no clue what music was supposed to be....


Me too. I'd forgotten those little machine-gun fills Dave does leading into the choruses of "RVM." Brilliant. I think I love these albums even more than I thought.



I have not convinced myself that i truly love these albums or if its just nostalgia.

Lyrically i have no connection whatsoever to Vs......

But the box set...as expected..brought back a shit ton of memories and feelings of being 13-17 years old and watchin every move this band made.


But yes...that drum fill Dave does in RVM (and lots) are tits and top notch.....man alive. The musical performances are so top notch and are signs of a band that was really really trying to prove themselves...and they did.
Author:  stip [ Thu Apr 07, 2011 4:39 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Let's actually listen to the albums: Backspacer edition
on the subject of Vs. and Backspacer--I'm having trouble writing the Vs. walkthrough right now, much moreso than any other ones I have done in the past. Some of this is just because of a lot of real life craziness and lack of time, but I also don't have that much to say about Vs, it seems. At least not in relation to those other guided tour threads. I was curious and just went back and read through the stuff I wrote about backspacer. I was wondering if I was trying to force something out there, or making up stuff that i wouldn't stand by 8 months after the fact. But I stand by the substance of that analysis. I think that stuff is really there. I'd go so far to say that Backspacer is one of their more complex albums, at least in terms of the themes addressed and especially in the subtle ways they address them (the kind of stuff I go on about in those posts). Certainly moreso than Ten and Vs (two albums I like more than Backspacer), probably S/T (which tries to do more with narrative than the other records but in ways that are often too heavyhanded), possibly Riot Act (which really belabors its points), and maybe even No Code or Yield (I never gave those albums the attention I necessarily have given other albums I was writing about so I wouldn't say this with confidence one way or the other). In fact I think the only albums that I would say are defintiely more complex are Vitalogy (which I like more) and Binaural (which I like less).

You don't have to agree with me on this, obviously, but if you've liked what I've written about on past records I'd encourage you to look past Backspacer's surface and see what's there. I stand by what I've written on this one. If you think I'm usually full of shit and talking out of my ass then of course there's no reason to do this :)

Remember that i'm talking about complexity here in terms of what the album is ultimately trying to accomplish for the listener, not the technical musical constructions of the songs (although again the simplicity in most cases is deliberate, and some songs that are drenched in atmosphere like Force of Nature do not posses the easily identifiable atmosphere you get from the mood pieces on a record like Binaural).
Author:  dumbcharger [ Thu Apr 07, 2011 4:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Let's actually listen to the albums: Backspacer edition
stip wrote:
it reveals more than you might think. Part of what turns some (not all) people off of backspacer (among the people with issues) is that we're conditioned to think of complexity and meaning as something that manifests in a particular way. A song like NAIS may sound much deeper than it really is because it's giving the listener the appropriate 'this is a deep song' cues. Backspacer is not a simple record. It's a deceptively simple record, and that stuff that it reveals doesn't appear to the listener in quite the same way. A lot of things that seem casual or simplistic or thrown off in the music reflect (I think) deliberate choices.

you can think of it like abstract art if this helps. If I draw a painting that is just a few geometric pictures on a white canvas it'll just reflect my inability to draw. If a serious artist does so they probably have a reason and it's worth looking past the surface to see what's going on. If I can't play guitar and I have a bunch of songs with simple construction it reflects the limits of my ability. If people who can write something really complicated write something simple it may just be simple (sometimes it is) but it's just as likely that the simple sounding thing is writtten with intention and to make a point. I think that's happening on Backspacer and people often miss it. that's why (for me) there is a difference between people not liking the album because they just don't like the songs (that's personal taste) and people who seem to resent the album for being lazy, overly simplistic, 3 minute diversionary pop songs, not trying, etc. That line of critique misses what the record is trying to accomplish. I think there was a LOT more attention paid to the construction of this record than people often think, and that's because a lot of the songs don't have the immediate appearance of being a song that demands to have itself taken seriously.


I agree with what you’ve written but just to clarify I wasn’t confusing concise and compact songs with lazy or simplistic song writing. I haven’t listened to BS for a while but from memory there were no real slow build numbers with room to breath it was either short punchy Ramones-esque rock songs like the first 4 songs or ballads. With such an extensive catalogue they’ve already done the kind of songs that don’t have an immediate hook or sing along chorus and they can play those types of songs live every night. The BS songs do feel super rehearsed and constructed and from what I gather in interviews that’s the process they set out to follow. I do like Backspacer for the contrast it provides to the rest of their catalogue but I don’t necessarily think it plays to the groups strengths.
Author:  cutuphalfdead [ Thu Apr 07, 2011 4:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Let's actually listen to the albums: Backspacer edition
stip wrote:
as long as I don't feel like modding the live forum Chud's dream will live on

You guys are such cock teases.
Author:  stip [ Thu Apr 07, 2011 4:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Let's actually listen to the albums: Backspacer edition
dumbcharger wrote:
stip wrote:
it reveals more than you might think. Part of what turns some (not all) people off of backspacer (among the people with issues) is that we're conditioned to think of complexity and meaning as something that manifests in a particular way. A song like NAIS may sound much deeper than it really is because it's giving the listener the appropriate 'this is a deep song' cues. Backspacer is not a simple record. It's a deceptively simple record, and that stuff that it reveals doesn't appear to the listener in quite the same way. A lot of things that seem casual or simplistic or thrown off in the music reflect (I think) deliberate choices.

you can think of it like abstract art if this helps. If I draw a painting that is just a few geometric pictures on a white canvas it'll just reflect my inability to draw. If a serious artist does so they probably have a reason and it's worth looking past the surface to see what's going on. If I can't play guitar and I have a bunch of songs with simple construction it reflects the limits of my ability. If people who can write something really complicated write something simple it may just be simple (sometimes it is) but it's just as likely that the simple sounding thing is writtten with intention and to make a point. I think that's happening on Backspacer and people often miss it. that's why (for me) there is a difference between people not liking the album because they just don't like the songs (that's personal taste) and people who seem to resent the album for being lazy, overly simplistic, 3 minute diversionary pop songs, not trying, etc. That line of critique misses what the record is trying to accomplish. I think there was a LOT more attention paid to the construction of this record than people often think, and that's because a lot of the songs don't have the immediate appearance of being a song that demands to have itself taken seriously.


I agree with what you’ve written but just to clarify I wasn’t confusing concise and compact songs with lazy or simplistic song writing. I haven’t listened to BS for a while but from memory there were no real slow build numbers with room to breath it was either short punchy Ramones-esque rock songs like the first 4 songs or ballads. With such an extensive catalogue they’ve already done the kind of songs that don’t have an immediate hook or sing along chorus and they can play those types of songs live every night. The BS songs do feel super rehearsed and constructed and from what I gather in interviews that’s the process they set out to follow. I do like Backspacer for the contrast it provides to the rest of their catalogue but I don’t necessarily think it plays to the groups strengths.


that wasn't directed at you (or anyone in particular). It's just another reprise of something I'm sure i've already beaten to death. A lot of Backspacer criticism bothers me in a way most of the other stuff doesn't because I feel like so much of it is misguided. this is a more hostile analogy than I mean it to be, but it's like arguing politics with someone who starts from a different set of values and first principles (you disagree, but as long as the person is internally consistent you can respect the disagreement) as opposed to arguing with someone who disagrees with you because their facts are wrong.
Author:  stip [ Thu Apr 07, 2011 4:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Let's actually listen to the albums: Backspacer edition
cutuphalfdead wrote:
stip wrote:
as long as I don't feel like modding the live forum Chud's dream will live on

You guys are such cock teases.


hey man, I support you. I really don't want to mod that forum!
Author:  cutuphalfdead [ Thu Apr 07, 2011 4:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Let's actually listen to the albums: Backspacer edition
stip wrote:
cutuphalfdead wrote:
stip wrote:
as long as I don't feel like modding the live forum Chud's dream will live on

You guys are such cock teases.


hey man, I support you. I really don't want to mod that forum!

I've always liked you.
Author:  62strat [ Thu Apr 07, 2011 4:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Let's actually listen to the albums: Backspacer edition
On STIPS point i want to say that....

I have this belief that writing distinct and short pop rock songs are more foreign to Pearl Jam (as a band, maybe not McCready as he hearts Van Halen and butt rock ) than them writing....grievance/evacuation/ or whatever else is considered "not lazy" to pearl jam fans....

So I believe that as musicians they tried hard to not stretch songs out or turn them on their head as usual....but rather put effort into doing what is unnatural to them

Now platy will come in here and point out a bunch of "avant garde" "indie" "organic" musicians to belittle my point; so fuck you, but in the universe that pearl jam operates I do believe that keeping songs short/concise/pop like was more work for them than putting "help help' together was....only cause they spent so much of their career trying not to be poppy.

That being said...I would not classify anything on backspacer as being "poppy" except maybe Just Breathe. However, im not really sure what poppy or popular means/sounds like anymore
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