Board index » Watched from the Window, with a Red Mosquito... » Pearl Jam




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 183 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 10  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Romancing the Stone (Gossard)
PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 9:30 am 
Offline
User avatar
Unthought Known
 Profile

Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2006 8:46 am
Posts: 8052
Location: Northern Virginia
Gender: Male
I don't think he's as happy as he could or should be. That Spin article from Backspacer's release a few years ago had a quote where he wished he'd had more fun over the years. If a guitarist in one of the biggest American bands today isn't having fun, we're all fucked.

He's kind of shy and reserved and doesn't deal with the fans very well. In the beginning, everyone was kind of mesmerized by his guitar riffs, and all these years later, the focus is on Eddie. I think he's happy with success, but possibly disappointed in his role. There are several group photos where he doesn't look all that enthusiastic.

If Pearl Jam breaks up, I'd expect him to be the one to jump ship first, but I think he's well aware that this defines him and he'd have a little bit of a difficult time finding this kind of recognition in any other endeavor.

_________________
Please listen and vote in the Other Bands Cover Contest.

"Remember back the early days when you were young and thus amazed."


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Romancing the Stone (Gossard)
PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 10:09 am 
Offline
User avatar
Force of Nature
 WWW  Profile

Joined: Tue Apr 25, 2006 9:11 pm
Posts: 904
Location: London, England
If I was capable of writing an album of songs like on Bayleaf and no one in my main band thought they were worth recording I'd be fucking pissed - especially when I heard the songs that were apparently making it onto the album. In fact if I wrote Fatal (and Strangest Tribe and Sunburn) and then it was deemed unsuitable for a record I'd be pissed. If I wrote the music to Bushleager including one of the best pre-choruses in history and then the lead singer decided to do spoken word in the verse I'd be completely lost for words.

It isn't surprising that he isn't bringing much to the table any more and I don't think it is lack of creativity. And he's still written most of the best/most interesting music in the band on the last two albums (Life Wasted, Comatose, Parachutes, Johnny Guitar, Supersonic).


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Romancing the Stone (Gossard)
PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 11:36 am 
Offline
User avatar
Got Some
 Profile

Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2005 12:17 pm
Posts: 1313
Location: still here
Image

_________________
add space, subtract man


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Romancing the Stone (Gossard)
PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 1:00 pm 
Offline
User avatar
Former PJ Drummer
 Profile

Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2004 7:37 pm
Posts: 15767
Location: Vail, CO
Gender: Male
Stone had some big smiles on his face night 1, sure as shit.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Romancing the Stone (Gossard)
PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 1:08 pm 
Offline
User avatar
Unthought Known
 Profile

Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2006 8:46 am
Posts: 8052
Location: Northern Virginia
Gender: Male
leopold wrote:
If I was capable of writing an album of songs like on Bayleaf and no one in my main band thought they were worth recording I'd be fucking pissed - especially when I heard the songs that were apparently making it onto the album. In fact if I wrote Fatal (and Strangest Tribe and Sunburn) and then it was deemed unsuitable for a record I'd be pissed. If I wrote the music to Bushleager including one of the best pre-choruses in history and then the lead singer decided to do spoken word in the verse I'd be completely lost for words.

It isn't surprising that he isn't bringing much to the table any more and I don't think it is lack of creativity. And he's still written most of the best/most interesting music in the band on the last two albums (Life Wasted, Comatose, Parachutes, Johnny Guitar, Supersonic).


Eddie once said it was hard to work with Stone cause he wasn't the kind of person that liked to repeat himself. I'm sure Stone still has ideas, but they're also at a point in their career where they no longer have to prove anything to anyone. They made it. They've established themselves as a great rock band. Its not like they have to come up with the most creative and exciting things all the time. It'd be nice, but if its average work, what can you do?

Maybe that's just his character, where he looks aloof and sort of disinterested for no particular reason. If he didn't want to be in Pearl Jam, he could easily retire and live a nice life with what he's accomplished. I think as long as he's in the band, you have to accept that he wants to be there because he's really having a good time doing it, not because he feels like he has to or its a boring job for him.

_________________
Please listen and vote in the Other Bands Cover Contest.

"Remember back the early days when you were young and thus amazed."


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Romancing the Stone (Gossard)
PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 1:09 pm 
Offline
User avatar
Yeah Yeah Yeah
 Profile

Joined: Tue May 30, 2006 2:48 pm
Posts: 3115
Location: Edinburgh/Lincoln, UK
leopold wrote:
It isn't surprising that he isn't bringing much to the table any more and I don't think it is lack of creativity. And he's still written most of the best/most interesting music in the band on the last two albums (Life Wasted, Comatose, Parachutes, Johnny Guitar, Supersonic).


Johnny Guitar is a Matt tune.

His contributions on Avocado were decent (Parachutes is excellent), but I'd be worried if Supersonic and Amongst The Waves were the best he could bring for Backspacer. Hopefully his other ideas were better but didn't fit the feel of the record.

Stone's peak for me (since Ten), was probably Binaural:
Fatal
Thin Air
Of The Girl
Rival
Strangest Tribe

That would stand alone as a strong EP. Hopefully we'll see more tunes like this or Bayleaf in the future.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Romancing the Stone (Gossard)
PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 1:35 pm 
Offline
Got Some
 WWW  Profile

Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2005 6:55 am
Posts: 1776
Location: New York, NY
iceagecoming wrote:
leopold wrote:
It isn't surprising that he isn't bringing much to the table any more and I don't think it is lack of creativity. And he's still written most of the best/most interesting music in the band on the last two albums (Life Wasted, Comatose, Parachutes, Johnny Guitar, Supersonic).


Johnny Guitar is a Matt tune.

His contributions on Avocado were decent (Parachutes is excellent), but I'd be worried if Supersonic and Amongst The Waves were the best he could bring for Backspacer. Hopefully his other ideas were better but didn't fit the feel of the record.

Stone's peak for me (since Ten), was probably Binaural:
Fatal
Thin Air
Of The Girl
Rival
Strangest Tribe

That would stand alone as a strong EP. Hopefully we'll see more tunes like this or Bayleaf in the future.


A bit nitpicky, but Johnny Guitar is listed as music: Matt and Stone. He was the highlight of S/T (although even the highlights of that album come with caveats), and the lowlight of Backspacer (though I wouldn't really call anyone's work on that album a highlight).


Last edited by digster on Wed Sep 07, 2011 1:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Romancing the Stone (Gossard)
PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 1:39 pm 
Offline
Got Some
 WWW  Profile

Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2005 6:55 am
Posts: 1776
Location: New York, NY
Tuolumne wrote:
inglishteecher wrote:
but of all the people on stage during the temple sets, he seemed to be enjoying himself more than anyone else.


That, right there, is the issue, I think. He loved Temple, no doubt, cause it reminded him of when things were his way.

Personally, I'm not just basing it off of stage movements. I've read tons of interviews. The "Grunge is Dead" book provides a few clues, and then there's other interviews where he'll talk about being dissatisfied with some records, or a Binaural-era interview (somewhere on youtube where he'll say some nights he's not as into it and he kind of has to find a sweet spot and sort of pretend he is while on stage, or the Twofeetthick interview where he blatantly says he wasn't appreciative of their success with hardcore fans at times and that he 'gets it' now. I think there's definitel ebbs and flows, but I don't sense the full committment, he's the 'doubter' of the band. That can be good for the push and pull dynamic any good band needs but sometimes he's just a little off, and you can sense it. Couple all of this with the fact that he's not collaborating on PJ20 or really picking any of the bands (Star Anna was Mike's, Joseph Arthur and Lytle were Jeff's, Liam Finn and Glen Hansard Ed's, etc. '91-93 Stone fricken dictated every move almost, it's so ridiculously different now. I think us fans are not overreading, we have a unique perspective, and I believe we're onto something, hell it's almost blatantly admitted by the band from time to time. Ed and Stone just need a vacation together and just talk, chill, drink, whatever, and work this stuff out.


That's a hell of a leap to make, especially when you consider that the Temple of the Dog album was primarily written, music and lyrics, by Cornell.

I think some of the 'evidence' we use with this kind of thing is a huge amount of conjecture. He's not collaborating on PJ20? He didn't pick any of the bands (which we don't even know was true; considering Queens of the Stone Age and Stone go way back, with their first album being released on his label, I have a feeling they were there cause of him), he's not "moving around enough" on stage; it just all seems like trying to connect dots into this massive 20-year story that in truth is probably a lot more complicated and a lot less dramatic. Hell, if Mike and Ed were the sole barometers of how an artist should act when they're "into it", about 95% of the people I've seen live would be going through the motions.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Romancing the Stone (Gossard)
PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 1:43 pm 
Offline
Banned from the Pit
 Profile

Joined: Wed Mar 16, 2011 2:38 am
Posts: 95
leopold wrote:
If I was capable of writing an album of songs like on Bayleaf and no one in my main band thought they were worth recording I'd be fucking pissed - especially when I heard the songs that were apparently making it onto the album. In fact if I wrote Fatal (and Strangest Tribe and Sunburn) and then it was deemed unsuitable for a record I'd be pissed. If I wrote the music to Bushleager including one of the best pre-choruses in history and then the lead singer decided to do spoken word in the verse I'd be completely lost for words.

It isn't surprising that he isn't bringing much to the table any more and I don't think it is lack of creativity. And he's still written most of the best/most interesting music in the band on the last two albums (Life Wasted, Comatose, Parachutes, Johnny Guitar, Supersonic).


Great points, probably something to that. As much as Stone can annoy me sometimes, I think Ed has alot of resopnsibility in it. Imagine conquering the world in the early 90s, partly b/c of your riffs, and then the lead singer starts picking up the guitar and you have nothing to play on a song? What's he doing on Corduroy, Immortality, In my Tree, Thumbing My Way? Not much.

I think there's a magic when Stone does the riffs and Ed does the lyrics. Not No Way, Strangest Tribe, Thin Air, etc which are all good songs. But In Hiding, Even Flow, Parachutes. When Stone does the music AND lyrics it tells me that he can't get in a room one on one with Ed and work the song out, as if Ed will overpower him or something.

I think it's a polite distance, not animosity, but he's seems resigned to the lesser role and given up on asserting himself.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Romancing the Stone (Gossard)
PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 1:50 pm 
Offline
Banned from the Pit
 Profile

Joined: Wed Mar 16, 2011 2:38 am
Posts: 95
digster wrote:
Tuolumne wrote:
inglishteecher wrote:
but of all the people on stage during the temple sets, he seemed to be enjoying himself more than anyone else.


That, right there, is the issue, I think. He loved Temple, no doubt, cause it reminded him of when things were his way.

Personally, I'm not just basing it off of stage movements. I've read tons of interviews. The "Grunge is Dead" book provides a few clues, and then there's other interviews where he'll talk about being dissatisfied with some records, or a Binaural-era interview (somewhere on youtube where he'll say some nights he's not as into it and he kind of has to find a sweet spot and sort of pretend he is while on stage, or the Twofeetthick interview where he blatantly says he wasn't appreciative of their success with hardcore fans at times and that he 'gets it' now. I think there's definitel ebbs and flows, but I don't sense the full committment, he's the 'doubter' of the band. That can be good for the push and pull dynamic any good band needs but sometimes he's just a little off, and you can sense it. Couple all of this with the fact that he's not collaborating on PJ20 or really picking any of the bands (Star Anna was Mike's, Joseph Arthur and Lytle were Jeff's, Liam Finn and Glen Hansard Ed's, etc. '91-93 Stone fricken dictated every move almost, it's so ridiculously different now. I think us fans are not overreading, we have a unique perspective, and I believe we're onto something, hell it's almost blatantly admitted by the band from time to time. Ed and Stone just need a vacation together and just talk, chill, drink, whatever, and work this stuff out.


That's a hell of a leap to make, especially when you consider that the Temple of the Dog album was primarily written, music and lyrics, by Cornell.

I think some of the 'evidence' we use with this kind of thing is a huge amount of conjecture. He's not collaborating on PJ20? He didn't pick any of the bands (which we don't even know was true; considering Queens of the Stone Age and Stone go way back, with their first album being released on his label, I have a feeling they were there cause of him), he's not "moving around enough" on stage; it just all seems like trying to connect dots into this massive 20-year story that in truth is probably a lot more complicated and a lot less dramatic. Hell, if Mike and Ed were the sole barometers of how an artist should act when they're "into it", about 95% of the people I've seen live would be going through the motions.


But what about the utter lack of collaboration between Stone and Ed? How many songs can you pick out where it's purely Stone's music and purely Ed's vocal melody? A true Stone/Ed collaboration? Very few, there's some where Stone is with Mike or Matt and Ed throws on the lyrics, but almost none where it's purely Stone's musical composition with Ed following and providing lyrics. That, with things said in interviews, and DIRECT comments from Stone's best friends (read Regan Hagar's comments in Grunge is Dead) and there's just a distance there. Freakin Cameron Crowe said in a PJ20 interview that it got really awkward within the room when the band was watching and Mike says that Ed took control of the band. CC literally says, to the effect of "they said it in interviews, but not to each other".

I just think there's a weirdness there. Not any kind of blatant animosity, but something that just hasn't been worked out yet. I hope they work through it, the music would benefit.

I think they love and respect one another,


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Romancing the Stone (Gossard)
PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 1:58 pm 
Offline
Yeah Yeah Yeah
 Profile

Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2010 6:37 am
Posts: 3819
Riot Actor 25 wrote:
If he didn't want to be in Pearl Jam, he could easily retire and live a nice life with what he's accomplished. I think as long as he's in the band, you have to accept that he wants to be there because he's really having a good time doing it, not because he feels like he has to or its a boring job for him.


This is more or less how I feel about it, too. On the whole, I don't find his stage presence much different than it's ever been, and I think much of the speculation about his loss of interest, bitterness, jealousy of Ed, etc. is, for the most part, exactly that. However, the hard evidence is that he's still there, and--as far as we know--there's nothing written in blood somewhere that requires him to be. I think it's very clear that the dynamics of the group have shifted over the years, and I think it's perfectly reasonable to assume that all the band members, not just Stone, have a much different take on it than they did 20 years ago. But I don't think that instantly points to his automatic dissatisfaction.

_________________
Buy KD's book! Official site or Amazon
Visit KD's blog! http://kevinpauldavis.blogspot.com
Join KD today and make a difference in women's lives! http://www.kappadelta.org/


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Romancing the Stone (Gossard)
PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 1:59 pm 
Offline
User avatar
Unthought Known
 Profile

Joined: Fri Jul 10, 2009 5:52 pm
Posts: 8288
one thing's for sure: we know what goes on in Stone's mind.

_________________
Sweep the leg!


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Romancing the Stone (Gossard)
PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 2:03 pm 
Offline
User avatar
Stone's Bitch
 Profile

Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 1:42 am
Posts: 11014
Location: Mizzou
Gender: Male
A couple people mentioning how old Stone seems. Isn't he the youngest member of the band?

_________________
"Red rover, red rover, let Mike McCready take over."


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Romancing the Stone (Gossard)
PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 2:07 pm 
Offline
User avatar
Former PJ Drummer
 Profile

Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2004 7:37 pm
Posts: 15767
Location: Vail, CO
Gender: Male
Stones stage presence is just who he is. It was interesting and funny during Kick out the jams. End of the song Steve Turner and Mccready were ...well...being metal heads and soloing ridiculously...stone was just off to the side keepin it real. Mark Arm had to come over and push stone over to the other two. Felt like he was saying "geezes christ stone, get over here and have some fun"


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Romancing the Stone (Gossard)
PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 2:11 pm 
Offline
User avatar
Fuck Sharks
 Profile

Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2008 2:14 am
Posts: 3642
Location: Tampa Bay, FL
Gender: Male
Monkey_Driven wrote:
A couple people mentioning how old Stone seems. Isn't he the youngest member of the band?

I thought Mike was...


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Romancing the Stone (Gossard)
PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 2:26 pm 
Offline
Got Some
 WWW  Profile

Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2005 6:55 am
Posts: 1776
Location: New York, NY
Tuolumne wrote:
But what about the utter lack of collaboration between Stone and Ed? How many songs can you pick out where it's purely Stone's music and purely Ed's vocal melody? A true Stone/Ed collaboration? Very few, there's some where Stone is with Mike or Matt and Ed throws on the lyrics, but almost none where it's purely Stone's musical composition with Ed following and providing lyrics. That, with things said in interviews, and DIRECT comments from Stone's best friends (read Regan Hagar's comments in Grunge is Dead) and there's just a distance there. Freakin Cameron Crowe said in a PJ20 interview that it got really awkward within the room when the band was watching and Mike says that Ed took control of the band. CC literally says, to the effect of "they said it in interviews, but not to each other".

I just think there's a weirdness there. Not any kind of blatant animosity, but something that just hasn't been worked out yet. I hope they work through it, the music would benefit.

I think they love and respect one another,


Well, there were two collaborations between them on the last album alone, which was more one-on-one collaboration with Eddie than any other member of the band for that album. Couple that with a few on the album before that. I guess I’m missing the point, because the records seem to point in the opposite direction.

I’ve seen just as many interviews where Stone and Ed gush over the other’s talents. That’s not to discount other things either of them have said or done, but it’s an interview. It’s a soundbite. I’m in a band myself that’s about .1% as popular as Pearl Jam and .0000001% as talented, and there is still no way I’d be able to sum up the creative relationships we have in a soundbite. I don’t really feel the creative collaboration between Stone or Ed, or Jeff or Ed, or Jeff and Stone, or whoever, can be summed up quite so succinctly. We don’t know these people, even if we know their music inside out.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Romancing the Stone (Gossard)
PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 2:38 pm 
Offline
User avatar
Yeah Yeah Yeah
 Profile

Joined: Tue May 30, 2006 2:48 pm
Posts: 3115
Location: Edinburgh/Lincoln, UK
The idea that anyone on this board can figure out how happy Stone is in PJ is pretty ridiculous.

Also,if control passed from Stone to Ed after Ten, it's because the music Stone was writing slowly became redundant in what Pearl Jam were and wanted to be. This doesn't however make Ed to blame by default. The most plausible theory to me is that PJ couldn't keep putting out grunge-riff-rockery, so everyone else had to contribute in bringing a decent set of songs to the table so they could keep creating music that kept them interested as well as a lot of fans.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Romancing the Stone (Gossard)
PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 2:39 pm 
Offline
User avatar
Force of Nature
 WWW  Profile

Joined: Tue Apr 25, 2006 9:11 pm
Posts: 904
Location: London, England
iceagecoming wrote:
leopold wrote:
It isn't surprising that he isn't bringing much to the table any more and I don't think it is lack of creativity. And he's still written most of the best/most interesting music in the band on the last two albums (Life Wasted, Comatose, Parachutes, Johnny Guitar, Supersonic).


Johnny Guitar is a Matt tune.

His contributions on Avocado were decent (Parachutes is excellent), but I'd be worried if Supersonic and Amongst The Waves were the best he could bring for Backspacer. Hopefully his other ideas were better but didn't fit the feel of the record.


Yeah, I diluted/contradicted my argument with the inclusion of the Backspacer material. As I said he didn't bring much to the table on that album.

I agree with others that we can't know what goes on in his head and this is massive speculation, but then again there is an 120 page thread about Pearl Jam's tenth album which is yet to be made, so I don't see the harm in a 2 page thread about the consequences of Stone's membership of the Illuminati since 2000. And although you could argue that he doesn't have to stay in the band if he doesn't like it, you could equally argue that participation in the band is pretty light touch these days and it's probably still pretty good buck for your bankg - and would you want to be the one that proved Chris "Pearl Jam, they stay together" Cornell wrong?


Last edited by leopold on Wed Sep 07, 2011 2:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Romancing the Stone (Gossard)
PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 2:46 pm 
Offline
User avatar
Force of Nature
 WWW  Profile

Joined: Tue Apr 25, 2006 9:11 pm
Posts: 904
Location: London, England
iceagecoming wrote:
The most plausible theory to me is that PJ couldn't keep putting out grunge-riff-rockery, so everyone else had to contribute in bringing a decent set of songs to the table so they could keep creating music that kept them interested as well as a lot of fans.


'Grunge-riff rockery' like...?

Release
Black
Garden
Footsteps
Hard to Imagine
Daughter
Dissident
Who You Are
No Way
All Those Yesterdays
Strangest Tribe
Fatal
Thin Air
Of the Girl
Anchors
Unhand Me
Sunburn
Parachutes
All or None

Yup - plausible theory...


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Romancing the Stone (Gossard)
PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 2:54 pm 
Offline
User avatar
Founding Bitch
 Profile

Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 1:09 pm
Posts: 13868
Location: Norn Iron
Er yeah, I'm going to make a few assumptions about someone I don't know, based on shifty subjective "evidence", about things that no one bar the band members and/or their friends and relatives would know. Stellar guesswork! :thumbsup:

_________________
Wilderness 1:49-2:04. Diamond Dust.

Window Washer's Dream - Planet Sonata's Intension


Top
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 183 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 10  Next

Board index » Watched from the Window, with a Red Mosquito... » Pearl Jam


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 23 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
It is currently Thu Mar 28, 2024 8:05 am