Joined: Sat Sep 22, 2007 6:21 am Posts: 23078 Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina Gender: Male
Harmless wrote:
Yeah. I don't really give a shit about much else. I don't even like The Beatles or punk. Sounds like you can argue anything you fucking like about musical history and as long as you've got enough bros to back you up, it's fine.
Oh, come on.
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I said that there was reasonable debate around the possibility that The Beatles were not in fact 'free as a bird' and could be called a manufactured band. Some have said that. But apparently I'm wrong just because spenno says I'm wrong. It doesn't matter though, none of this does.
Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2004 11:02 pm Posts: 1777 Location: Naperville, IL, USA Ten Club: 230xxx Gender: Male
There is no reasonable debate about this. Formation does not equal marketing once signed to a label. Monkees and Sex Pistols were manufactured (created by an entity, the band did not come together "organically"), Beatles and Ramones were not (though perhaps a little of the Ramones image was suggested to them by Danny Fields, if you read The Oral Uncensored History of Punk Rock, one of my favorite books of all time).
It's funny, the course of history would have been COMPLETELY different had the Sex Pistols never existed, because the Ramones were going to be the punk band that made it. Talent-wise, it should have been the NY Dolls (well, "sort of" punk - managed by the guy who created the Pistols, and were his inspiration to create the Pistols) or the Stooges, but both were too fucked up. The UK brought us the Sex Pistols and The Clash, and because of coke and heroin, all the NYC scene could produce was...Blondie, and Patti Smith; The Ramones were marginalized commercially because they were viewed as "Sex Pistols, USA edition", a bitter irony to everyone involved.
Heroin, coke, and the Sex Pistols set back the commercial existence of punk attitude in popular music by about 15 years. Some may view this as a good thing in hindsight. However, the thought to ponder is that bands like the Dead Kennedys and Bad Brains and Minor Threat/Fugazi may have made it big were it not for the Pistols, too. That's a reaaaaaaaaaaally interesting thought to me, especially when considered in what actually came to pass in the 1980's.
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Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2004 11:36 pm Posts: 25824 Location: south jersey
twoheadedboy wrote:
There is no reasonable debate about this. Formation does not equal marketing once signed to a label. Monkees and Sex Pistols were manufactured (created by an entity, the band did not come together "organically"), Beatles and Ramones were not (though perhaps a little of the Ramones image was suggested to them by Danny Fields, if you read The Oral Uncensored History of Punk Rock, one of my favorite books of all time).
It's funny, the course of history would have been COMPLETELY different had the Sex Pistols never existed, because the Ramones were going to be the punk band that made it. Talent-wise, it should have been the NY Dolls (well, "sort of" punk - managed by the guy who created the Pistols, and were his inspiration to create the Pistols) or the Stooges, but both were too fucked up. The UK brought us the Sex Pistols and The Clash, and because of coke and heroin, all the NYC scene could produce was...Blondie, and Patti Smith; The Ramones were marginalized commercially because they were viewed as "Sex Pistols, USA edition", a bitter irony to everyone involved.
Heroin, coke, and the Sex Pistols set back the commercial existence of punk attitude in popular music by about 15 years. Some may view this as a good thing in hindsight. However, the thought to ponder is that bands like the Dead Kennedys and Bad Brains and Minor Threat/Fugazi may have made it big were it not for the Pistols, too. That's a reaaaaaaaaaaally interesting thought to me, especially when considered in what actually came to pass in the 1980's.
i dunno man. i love DK but i have a hard time imagining them 'making it big' b/c they were so radical. do you think a record company would could market a song like "kill the poor"? i think green day's lyrics made it easier for punk to mainstream
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Take A Walk On The Wild Side is worse than anything the DK's did and just as overt.
I like the Dead Kennedy's but will admit that there's no mass appeal to their music. Sex Pistols were contrived to be a pop band of sorts, so it's no surprise they were/are vastly more popular than DK or other punk bands. The only intent of the Sex pistols was to sell in order to make money. I don't think the same can be said for most of the other punk bands of that era.
Really, you think the voice behind Just Breathe or Unthought Known is good?
is it bad?
I think it's bad. The penchant for overly sentiment lyrics does not help his cause. I can't see Pearl Jam ever having made it if that was his voice on Ten.
Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2004 11:02 pm Posts: 1777 Location: Naperville, IL, USA Ten Club: 230xxx Gender: Male
tyler wrote:
twoheadedboy wrote:
Take A Walk On The Wild Side is worse than anything the DK's did and just as overt.
I like the Dead Kennedy's but will admit that there's no mass appeal to their music. Sex Pistols were contrived to be a pop band of sorts, so it's no surprise they were/are vastly more popular than DK or other punk bands. The only intent of the Sex pistols was to sell in order to make money. I don't think the same can be said for most of the other punk bands of that era.
I think it's unlikely, but it would have been possible. All members of the band have shown they're not against commercialization, they just disagree at times as to what that means. You might have had a slightly slower, slightly less offensive DK had punk become more of a movement than it did, under the purpose of getting the message out to the masses. Sure, "Kill The Poor" could never have been a radio single, But "Let's Lynch The Landlord" or "Halloween" could have been. They could have been sold as a faster, more political Talking Heads.
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Really, you think the voice behind Just Breathe or Unthought Known is good?
is it bad?
I think it's bad. The penchant for overly sentiment lyrics does not help his cause. I can't see Pearl Jam ever having made it if that was his voice on Ten.
the lyrics aren't very good but i think he sounds great.
Joined: Fri Sep 15, 2006 11:00 am Posts: 16093 Location: dublin Gender: Male
Quote:
Harmless wrote: Yeah. I don't really give a shit about much else. I don't even like The Beatles or punk. Sounds like you can argue anything you fucking like about musical history and as long as you've got enough bros to back you up, it's fine.
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Last edited by dimejinky99 on Sun Jun 10, 2012 12:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I think we'd be lying if we all didn't admit that Ed's voice is still one of the best features of this band. For me, it used to be the voice and the drummer. That was a long time ago; Ed's pretty much kept me here.
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 3:08 am Posts: 22978 Gender: Male
Man, I loved Ed's voice 98-00. When they started tackling things like "Soldier of Love". Still had some of his youthful intensity and passion, but had a little more polish than the early days.
Joined: Tue Nov 30, 2004 4:02 am Posts: 44183 Location: New York Gender: Male
Skitch Patterson wrote:
Man, I loved Ed's voice 98-00. When they started tackling things like "Soldier of Love". Still had some of his youthful intensity and passion, but had a little more polish than the early days.
and yet that's part of the period (96-03) that I probably like the least
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Joined: Sun May 21, 2006 2:02 am Posts: 91597 Location: Sector 7-G
dimejinky99 wrote:
Quote:
Harmless wrote: Yeah. I don't really give a shit about much else. I don't even like The Beatles or punk. Sounds like you can argue anything you fucking like about musical history and as long as you've got enough bros to back you up, it's fine.
Welp, it's official. Harmless lost.
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