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 Post subject: SOTM #97: Puzzles and Games (the Light Years Demo)
PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 3:36 pm 
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Puzzles And Games (Demo)






Previous Songs of the Moment
1. In My Tree
2. Red Mosquito
3. Porch
4. I Got Id
5. Release
6. Do The Evolution
7. Breath
8. Corduroy
9. Elderly Woman...
10. Leash
11. Hail Hail
12. Grievance
13. Love Boat Captain
14. Even Flow
15. Black Red Yellow
16. In Hiding
17. Can't Keep
18. Indifference
19. Insignificance
20. Whipping
21. Black
22. Smile
23. Push Me Pull Me
24. Rats
25. God's Dice
26. All or None
27. Yellow Ledbetter
28. Last Exit
29. Who You Are
30. Rearview Mirror
31. Hold On
32. Present Tense
33. Light Years
34. Alive
35. Brain of J
36. Thumbing My Way
37. Hard to Imagine
38. Tremor Christ
39. Rival
40. Animal
41. Lukin
42. You Are
43. betterman
44. Given to Fly
45. Once
46. Low Light
47. Parting Ways
48. Off He Goes
49. Go
50. get right
51. World Wide Suicide
52. Angel
53. MFC
54. Long Road
55. Why Go
56. Nothingman
57. Save You
58. Of A Girl
59. Habit
60. Satan's Bed
61. Faithful
62. Oceans
63. Gone
64. WMA
65. State of Love and Trust
66. Spin The Black Circle
67. Life Wasted
68. Arc
69. Garden
70. All Those Yesterdays
71. Sleight of Hand
72. Other Side
73. Let Me Sleep
74. I'm Open
75. Blood
76. Nothing As It Seems
77. All Night
78. Jeremy
79. No Way
80. Around The Bend
81. Immortality
82. Comatose
83. Daughter
84. Alone
85. I am Mine
86. Down
87. Cropduster
88. Strangest Tribe
89. Inside Job
90. Drifting
91. Wishlist
92. Big Wave
93. Sad
94. Stupid Mop
95. Come Back
96. Glorified G

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 Post subject: Re: SOTM #97: Puzzles and Games (the Light Years Demo)
PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 3:36 pm 
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Unfortunately the TSIS lyric archive is down so I don’t have puzzle and games lyrics to post (if someone had them post em in this thread and I’ll update the header

I thought this would be a fun SOTM since not everyone has heard this song, and rather than talk about the lyrics, we could talk a bit about the decisions the band makes

We’ve always heard rumors that Eddie would try and take accessible songs and make them more difficult or challenging in the attempt to prevent them from becoming hits (because god forbid people should learn of a pearl jam song after vitalogy). And with the light years demo we have proof of what this has cost us as fans.

Light years is a good song, but not a great song. My concern with it has always been the music, which is interesting, but far too jerky and disconcerting for the subject matter. Give the chorus and the content of the song Light Years needed more warmth and accessibility than it had. The music should not push you away when the purpose of the song is to commiserate together/

Puzzles and Games doesn’t make that mistake and it would have been a massive hit (I think). The basic melody of the song is warm and soothing, inviting the listener into the song, and provides a perfect backdrop for Eddie’s whispered, gentle, puzzled vocals. Plus, unlike the music they went with in light years, the song actually MOVES—the music propels you along and gives the song a sense of motion and urgency while still managing to remain understated.

And Eddie soars beautifully in the chorus, which gives the song the lift that he does so well, and has been so absent from so much of the post yield output. It leaves you charged, wanting more, and inspired from being able to listen to and share something so powerful. It is really hard not to have his voice take you somewhere when he sings like that, and it is a crime against fans of the band that he does not do so more often

This song is far superior to the light years we got in almost every way, yet it manages to not sound generic. It is everything that is good about pearl jam without them aping themselves or being formulaic. Would it have been such a crime to finish this version and release it instead?

5 stars, and it makes me sad because it is such a stark reminder of all the beautiful music we could have been given that was withheld

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 Post subject: Re: SOTM #97: Puzzles and Games (the Light Years Demo)
PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 3:45 pm 
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Stip, use WikiJam for lyrics ;)

http://www.theskyiscrape.com/website/wi ... _And_Games

Quote:
I've seen puzzles made out of wood, i've seen games
With pieces and rules
I've decipered a trick or two at the bar, but there's a lot I haven't figured out
This far

I've come up with riddles and jokes about war
I've figured out numbers and what balance sheets are for
I've understood feelings and i've understood words but the mystery remains
I miss you

You are never more beautiful than at the end of a day
When the world's away
Oh, this way
We can all run away
We can't all disappear
At the end of the day
You come back here...
Here...

It's been a long, long day
And it's hard to say i'm just a drunk
Ohhh, just a drunk
If you can imagine words
All that remains
Ohhh, still I'm just drunk
A puddle in the parking lot

You are never more beautiful than at the end of a day
And the world's away
Oh, we can all run away
But we can't all disappear
At the end of the day
You come back here

You are never more beautiful than at the end of a day
From far away
We can all run away
But we can't all disappear
At the end of the day
You come back here

Back here...
Come back here...


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 Post subject: Re: SOTM #97: Puzzles and Games (the Light Years Demo)
PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 3:48 pm 
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Personally, I like Puzzles & Games more than Light Years.

To me, it actually sounds more musically adventuresome than typical PJ tracks, and the Light Years result was dulled down a little. I still like Light Years, but I think P&G is better.


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 Post subject: Re: SOTM #97: Puzzles and Games (the Light Years Demo)
PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 3:48 pm 
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Thanks Buggy :)

lyrically that second verse needs a little work. Nice final lyric though

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 Post subject: Re: SOTM #97: Puzzles and Games (the Light Years Demo)
PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 3:49 pm 
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I don't know why this is a song of the moment, because to me, it's not a song at all. It's an unfinished demo that Eddie mumbles through. The beauty behind the finished Light Years track is the sentiment of the lyrics. I don't feel that at all with this demo.

I'll admit that I got sick of Light Years when they played it every night on the Binaural tour. However, after a long break of not hearing it, I was really happy to hear it at SF 3 this past year. Combined with Sad right before, it really gave a picture of how the songs would have sounded back to back on Binaural. The biggest mistake of Binaural was not making Light Years more commercial; it was leaving Sad/Letter to the Dead completely off the album. That is the true tragedy of Binaural, not this half assed Puzzles and Games Demo.


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 Post subject: Re: SOTM #97: Puzzles and Games (the Light Years Demo)
PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 3:51 pm 
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pjnothingman wrote:
I don't know why this is a song of the moment, because to me, it's not a song at all. It's an unfinished demo that Eddie mumbles through. The beauty behind the finished Light Years track is the sentiment of the lyrics. I don't feel that at all with this demo.

I'll admit that I got sick of Light Years when they played it every night on the Binaural tour. However, after a long break of not hearing it, I was really happy to hear it at SF 3 this past year. Combined with Sad right before, it really gave a picture of how the songs would have sounded back to back on Binaural. The biggest mistake of Binaural was not making Light Years more commercial; it was leaving Sad/Letter to the Dead completely off the album. That is the true tragedy of Binaural, not this half assed Puzzles and Games Demo.


What bothers me about this post (I am not directing this at youpjnothingman, just this sentiment) is the belief that something being accessible makes it 'commerical' with all the negative baggage that that word implies

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 Post subject: Re: SOTM #97: Puzzles and Games (the Light Years Demo)
PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 4:08 pm 
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The lyrics on the final version are much better
I'd put them about the same overall.
4/5 probably.

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 Post subject: Re: SOTM #97: Puzzles and Games (the Light Years Demo)
PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 4:59 pm 
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pjnothingman wrote:
I don't know why this is a song of the moment, because to me, it's not a song at all. It's an unfinished demo that Eddie mumbles through.


Are we really scraping the bottom of the barrel on the SOTM now? What's next, Goat?

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 Post subject: Re: SOTM #97: Puzzles and Games (the Light Years Demo)
PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 5:22 pm 
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This is an absolutely beautiful song. I like Light Years, but this is much better.

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 Post subject: Re: SOTM #97: Puzzles and Games (the Light Years Demo)
PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 5:23 pm 
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Here's something Jeff said shortly after the release of Binaural regarding the evolution of Light Years:

Is it true that "Light Years" was turned inside out from its original structure?
JA:
It sounded nothing like what it sounds like now. Mike had a couple of riffs, and Ed really sat down and tried to write to it. He initially had some problems, and one day he came in on his own and had some lyrics that were really heartfelt. He ended up completely rearranging the song. It got played a million different tempos and a million different angles on the drums. That was a hard song; probably more so on Matt's end just because it took so long.


I'm not entirely sure what that says about Ed's input to songs etc...but i think it shows a band that has to compensate to each other's strengths...if Ed wasn't comfortable with the feel of how 'Puzzles and games' was sounding, it was probably easier for Mike to lean towards Ed's ideas. Maybe that's not fair...but i think the singer has slightly more responsibility. And if it was a conscious decision to make Light Years slightly unaccessible (though i don't think it actually is - it's a favourite on this board), why is that such a problem? It's artistic deicsion, it's his creation, and the way a song connects with the mass is an important feature. Sure he's creating songs with a potential audience in mind, and with some expectations, but he has the freedom to shape how well the song translates - and perhaps a personal song shouldn't need to be one with so many hooks that it becomes accessbile to the mass? In that respect the 'off putting' feel to the music of the Light years we all know could be intentional to evoke the difficult subject being touched on. Either way, we can't know for sure, and it's up to the artist anyway.

It also seems that the argument for Ed consciously leaving great songs off albums is Sad...here's what Jeff said about that (from the same interview):

"Letter To The Dead" is just a great pop song. Pretty much every record, Ed will write a great pop song. And a lot of times, those songs end up not fitting the record as much, because we haven't really written very many pop records [laughs].

..there's not much indication there that Ed is the guy making the hard decisions, and the fact that this is often the assumption annoys me.
I'm not sure how fair it is to say that Ed doesn't want a hit single...it kinda seems worldwide suicide was wrote to be a single. i'm sure Ed would have loved for a song like Down to be on Riot Act, but there seemed to be a consesnsus on that song not fitting the mood of the album.

Pearl Jam do enough keeping themselves to themselves without worrying about a hit single preventing them from living comfortable lives - that's been the case since Yield, so i'd suggest that the reason the songs aren't making the grade is because of their contribution to the album - not the fact that Eddie doesn't want the band to be huge. At least, there's very little to prove the latter.


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 Post subject: Re: SOTM #97: Puzzles and Games (the Light Years Demo)
PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 5:27 pm 
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I always wondered how Matt came about decided to use both the exact same tempo and pretty much drum pattern as Not For You. Listen to the boots, it's nearly impossible to differentiate the songs during the drums intro.

Ed improved the lyrics on the released version but I love seeing this version as it shows you what is really required to make a song presentable lyrics and melody wise.


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 Post subject: Re: SOTM #97: Puzzles and Games (the Light Years Demo)
PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 5:34 pm 
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tyler wrote:
I always wondered how Matt came about decided to use both the exact same tempo and pretty much drum pattern as Not For You. Listen to the boots, it's nearly impossible to differentiate the songs during the drums intro.

Ed improved the lyrics on the released version but I love seeing this version as it shows you what is really required to make a song presentable lyrics and melody wise.


Probably the only thing i don't like about the released Light Years is Matt's drum intro...it's not bad, i just don't feel it's needed...i think the song would work a huge deal better if it was just a hi hat counting the beat with the guitars building at the intro, and then Matt coming in with the kick and snare on the start of the first line. Or maybe coming in half way through the verse would be great...just not from the very start.


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 Post subject: Re: SOTM #97: Puzzles and Games (the Light Years Demo)
PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 5:52 pm 
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punkdavid wrote:
pjnothingman wrote:
I don't know why this is a song of the moment, because to me, it's not a song at all. It's an unfinished demo that Eddie mumbles through.


Are we really scraping the bottom of the barrel on the SOTM now? What's next, Goat?


:lol:

well we are starting to run out of songs--this is number 97

But this is a fully realized song, and one I thought people might like to hear

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 Post subject: Re: SOTM #97: Puzzles and Games (the Light Years Demo)
PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 6:32 pm 
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insturmentally this song kicks all kinds of ass.

vocially I find it very lacking, mostly because theres very little clarity in the singing.
but what the hell i gave it a 5 anyway.

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 Post subject: Re: SOTM #97: Puzzles and Games (the Light Years Demo)
PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 9:14 pm 
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Musically the song is awesome. I really enjoy the vocals, if somewhat muddled at times. The lyrics are NOT as strong as the final output, though. Light Years is a 5 star PJ song, and probably my favorite post-Yield song. That said, this Puzzles and Games is very strong as well. I'm not really sure it would have had much more "hit" potential than Light Years, but had I never heard LY, I would have liked this song very much as well.

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 Post subject: Re: SOTM #97: Puzzles and Games (the Light Years Demo)
PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 10:07 pm 
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4 stars... just as good, if not better, than the final "Light Years".

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 Post subject: Re: SOTM #97: Puzzles and Games (the Light Years Demo)
PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2007 12:01 am 
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I like the music embed...Stip I think you should upload MP3's for all of the past SOTM's... :D

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 Post subject: Re: SOTM #97: Puzzles and Games (the Light Years Demo)
PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2007 12:15 am 
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Where can I obtain this?

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 Post subject: Re: SOTM #97: Puzzles and Games (the Light Years Demo)
PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2007 1:50 am 
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Iago wrote:
Where can I obtain this?


Just click on the audio player in the header post.


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