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 Post subject: Re: 2012 bootlegs
PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 3:03 am 
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 Post subject: Re: 2012 bootlegs
PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 3:30 am 
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 Post subject: Re: 2012 bootlegs
PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 2:01 pm 
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spenno wrote:
stip wrote:
Certainly on the boots, but like I've argued, the boots do not capture the intangibles in his voice effectively, and give the appearance of a greater deterioration than is there. And I'm not talking about the intangibles of the SHOW, I am speaking only about his voice. part of what makes him special as a singer simply doesn't record for whatever reason (at least in this environment). It just used to matter less. But hell, even the good boots before the start of the long decline don't capture them. it's just that there is enough other good stuff there for it to matter less.

I'm rather sceptical that this is the case; like I said above, I tend towards thinking it's a mixture of volume and subconscious adjustment that makes Vedder's voice sound better in person. I feel as though the kind of intangible essence you think is missing is something largely subjective and, as such, will never be able to be recorded. The bootlegs are an accurate reflection of what is actually there, not what we process with our ears somewhere in a cavernous concert hall. Ed's voice sounds strikingly stronger on the older bootlegs because what was actually coming out of his throat was a better musical performance.


The bootlegs can only capture what is there that can captured and pinned down, which again I think is more than an intangible 'you had to be there' feel.

Having said that, he sounds stronger on earlier bootlegs because his voice was in better shape. I am not challenging that. There was once no one better than Eddie, in my opinion. I wouldn't say that now. But i also think that the way we frequently hear him doesn't do him justice.

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 Post subject: Re: 2012 bootlegs
PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 2:10 pm 
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McParadigm wrote:
dimejinky99 wrote:
The only other approach available to them would to standardise the setlists every night. None of us want that do we?


The amount of wear-and-tear doesn't match the actual age, is the thing, but a lot of that has to do with grace. Some people can yell and howl and play crazy shows well into their 60's or even 70's. If you aren't one of them, that's fine. It's not required. It's not even expected. Age is a universal truth. It's an inevitability. And there are avenues to maintaining available to you.

This band passed the fulcrum moment from rawk and volume to exploration and atmospherics years ago, and they just refuse to see it. The first half of every new record is always "See? See how we can still do this?" And the answer, often as not, is "Not really." Great bands expand rather than excise. Great bands redefine rather than codify. More than anything, great bands make records that leave you wondering what is going to happen next...and then great bands make something next.


Oddly enough I think the 'see, we can still do this' rockers still work well, and are among the strongest songs on the recent record. The looser, more ragged way they play these songs fit the wear and tear in his voice. It's a young man's sound, but it's also something none of us ever want to lose, and I think PJ's takes on these songs have an 'older man refusing to surrender to that battle against age that he knows he can't win' feel that give them a stubborn against the odds defiance that is really compelling. Comatose, WWS, Life Wasted, Johnny Guitar, GSMF, the Fixer, Force of Nature (if you can count that in there) are not only my favorite songs from the last two albums--they are some of my favorite PJ songs period.

It's the anthems where I feel they've fallen off, if for no other reason than they require soaring vocals that treally detach themselves from the song (at least the way PJ traditionally writes these songs), and while I think Eddie can still probably do that (see Hard Sun, for instance), they've got to be much more careful with them. It doesn't come as naturally or as effortlessly as it used to, and it's not like Eddie can compensate for this with the ferocity he can pour into the faster songs. I am Mine is a much better direction for the anthems than amongst the waves or Unthought Known or whatever qualifies as the 'anthems' on S/T

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 Post subject: Re: 2012 bootlegs
PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 2:31 pm 
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stip wrote:
It's the anthems where I feel they've fallen off, if for no other reason than they require soaring vocals that treally detach themselves from the song (at least the way PJ traditionally writes these songs), and while I think Eddie can still probably do that (see Hard Sun, for instance), they've got to be much more careful with them. It doesn't come as naturally or as effortlessly as it used to, and it's not like Eddie can compensate for this with the ferocity he can pour into the faster songs. I am Mine is a much better direction for the anthems than amongst the waves or Unthought Known or whatever qualifies as the 'anthems' on S/T


I like this anthem point and agree that an understated anthem like I am mine is a better approach for the current band than Gone or ATW. What are the other "anthem" songs? My picks for now...

Ten (Once, Even Flow, Alive, Why Go)
Vs (Animal, Dissident, Leash)
Vitalogy (Betterman)
No Code (In My Tree)
Yield (Faithfull, Given to Fly, In Hiding)
Binaural (Grievance?)
Riot Act (LBC, I Am Mine)
Pearl Jam (Gone, Inside Job)
Backspacer (ATW, Unthought Known)


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 Post subject: Re: 2012 bootlegs
PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 2:34 pm 
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I picture a mid tempo song with a 'rise above' chorus. That could be an entirely arbitrary definition, but when I use the term that's what I am referring to.

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 Post subject: Re: 2012 bootlegs
PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 2:42 pm 
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I think Pearl Jam needs to just let go of what they think Pearl Jam is. Then create music that guides them. Eds voice is still rally incredible when used properly. They are just hanging on to this idea of what Pearl Jam is supposed to be and its either a) been done before or b) falls flat of previous and better attempts.


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 Post subject: Re: 2012 bootlegs
PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 3:35 pm 
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Guys, stop calling them 'anthems'. That's... not what anthems are.

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 Post subject: Re: 2012 bootlegs
PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 4:02 pm 
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theplatypus wrote:
Guys, stop calling them 'anthems'. That's... not what anthems are.



Does it ever get exhausting knowing everything?


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 Post subject: Re: 2012 bootlegs
PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 4:03 pm 
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Yes.

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 Post subject: Re: 2012 bootlegs
PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 4:03 pm 
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Clearly - I can only imagine.


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 Post subject: Re: 2012 bootlegs
PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 4:04 pm 
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62strat wrote:
I can only imagine.

Clearly!

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 Post subject: Re: 2012 bootlegs
PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 4:30 pm 
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Obviously the band recorded about 8-10 tracks and ended up not liking what they recorded,or there would be something out by now. Everyone wants a new direction, but I just don't feel there is anywhere to go. I still sit by the fact that playing 17-20 shows a year is not gonna help them live. They need more shows, they've never been a band to just get out and sound great.

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 Post subject: Re: 2012 bootlegs
PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 6:26 pm 
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lowlight79 wrote:
Obviously the band recorded about 8-10 tracks and ended up not liking what they recorded,or there would be something out by now. Everyone wants a new direction, but I just don't feel there is anywhere to go. I still sit by the fact that playing 17-20 shows a year is not gonna help them live. They need more shows, they've never been a band to just get out and sound great.



this is a fact then?


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 Post subject: Re: 2012 bootlegs
PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 6:36 pm 
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theplatypus wrote:
Guys, stop calling them 'anthems'. That's... not what anthems are.


what is an anthem?

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 Post subject: Re: 2012 bootlegs
PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 9:34 pm 
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stip wrote:
theplatypus wrote:
Guys, stop calling them 'anthems'. That's... not what anthems are.


what is an anthem?


Oh Canada


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 Post subject: Re: 2012 bootlegs
PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 12:29 am 
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that's a total mid tempo song with a rousing chorus. I don't know what Platy's problem is.

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 Post subject: Re: 2012 bootlegs
PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 2:43 am 
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Merriam Webster offers this:

Quote:

an·them
noun \ˈan(t)-thəm\
1
a : a psalm or hymn sung antiphonally or responsively
b : a sacred vocal composition with words usually from the Scriptures
2
: a song or hymn of praise or gladness
3
: a usually rousing popular song that typifies or is identified with a particular subculture, movement, or point of view <anthems of teenage angst>


Using definition 3, as the other two don't really apply, maybe only one or two Pearl Jam songs would qualify as "anthems," in the technical sense. I think the word has taken on connotations in music writing that make it reasonable to use in a setting beyond its formal definition, but by the same token the temptation to label any "big" song with an easily recognizable chorus an "anthem" is probably a little excessive. I'm not sure why being mid-tempo matters either--surely you could classify "Blitzkrieg Bop" as a "punk anthem," and that's pretty uptempo.

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 Post subject: Re: 2012 bootlegs
PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 3:06 am 
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 Post subject: Re: 2012 bootlegs
PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 3:08 am 
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spenno wrote:
I'm allergic to bombast.

You listen to AC/DC

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