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 Post subject: Re: 2012 bootlegs
PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 10:37 am 
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That's odd Spenno. Manchester 1 was easily the worst PJ show I was ever at. Crowd were terrible, band realised it and went to autopilot. Ed comments on it somewhere during night two.
Manc 2 is a good listen. They came on that night and it was like watching a completely different band. Amazeballs.

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 Post subject: Re: 2012 bootlegs
PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 11:54 am 
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dimejinky99 wrote:
That's odd Spenno. Manchester 1 was easily the worst PJ show I was ever at. Crowd were terrible, band realised it and went to autopilot. Ed comments on it somewhere during night two.
Manc 2 is a good listen. They came on that night and it was like watching a completely different band. Amazeballs.

With these guys, I've found those fun, energetic shows often don't translate to particularly inspiring performances on recording; the ones that seem underwhelming on the night often do.


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 Post subject: Re: 2012 bootlegs
PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 12:09 pm 
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Aint that the truth.

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 Post subject: Re: 2012 bootlegs
PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 2:50 pm 
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spenno wrote:
dimejinky99 wrote:
That's odd Spenno. Manchester 1 was easily the worst PJ show I was ever at. Crowd were terrible, band realised it and went to autopilot. Ed comments on it somewhere during night two.
Manc 2 is a good listen. They came on that night and it was like watching a completely different band. Amazeballs.

With these guys, I've found those fun, energetic shows often don't translate to particularly inspiring performances on recording; the ones that seem underwhelming on the night often do.


This happened to me with the two 09 Seattle shows. Night one crowd wasn't into it like night two crowd was, but the night one boot is better in my opinion.

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 Post subject: Re: 2012 bootlegs
PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2012 10:50 am 
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I went to both Manchester shows, and as soon as night two was over I felt the first night was better. I'd had a little bit to drink both nights but wasn't drunk, just merry and super excited. I felt night one was an absolute blast. So much fun from start to finish.

Night two was great, but I didn't feel it was as 'fun' as the first show. For me, a perfect PJ show is one with a lot of the staples and then one or two rarities thrown in. Call me what you want, but a show isn't a show without some of the staples. I need Corduroy, Given To Fly, Small Town etc.

First night had the amazing Release-DTE opening combo, then they threw in Nothingman, Pilate, Immortality, Arms Aloft and an absolutely blistering Porch and phenomenal Rockin' in the Free World.

Second night had had a great Go-Animal opening, Wishlist, Down, Present Tense, Off He Goes, Sonic Reducer. A great show, but it didn't flow as well as night one.


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 Post subject: Re: 2012 bootlegs
PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2012 11:38 am 
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It doesn't help that Ed botches Animal on the second night, not to mention the trainwreck version of Hitchhiker. Definitely one of those 'I guess you had to be there' shows for me.

Release into Do the Evolution, both excellent versions, made for a great opening to the first night. Overall I liked the setlist and performance a lot better, though I expect some of the subsequent shows will blow either of the Manchester gigs away.


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 Post subject: Re: 2012 bootlegs
PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2012 11:48 am 
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^ Yeah, I imagine Amsterdam, Prague and Berlin shows will sound a lot better than Manchester.

Sometimes it baffles me how Ed can butcher certain songs that they've sang literally hundreds of times for years. If they play a rare song, you can understand Ed messing up. But on Manchester 2, he totally messes up Animal and Rearviewmirror. I love him to bits, but screwing up the staples makes me crazy.


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 Post subject: Re: 2012 bootlegs
PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 8:04 pm 
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These shows sound great, but the performances and errors on staples just gets me. It's like buying a crack whore for 60 and trying to make her act like 300 escort. It doesn't work.

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 Post subject: Re: 2012 bootlegs
PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 10:55 pm 
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Funny. I'm watching pretty woman right now :)

I just heard that flub on Animal from Manchester 2. I did notice it on the night but these things don't bother me. Also thought Hitchhiker sounded ok. Not a huge fan of the song but it was cool they gave it a walk.

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 Post subject: Re: 2012 bootlegs
PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 11:07 pm 
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lowlight79 wrote:
It's like buying a crack whore for 60 and trying to make her act like 300 escort. It doesn't work.


Tell us more.


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 Post subject: Re: 2012 bootlegs
PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 11:08 pm 
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The Rock wrote:
Sometimes it baffles me how Ed can butcher certain songs that they've sang literally hundreds of times for years. If they play a rare song, you can understand Ed messing up. But on Manchester 2, he totally messes up Animal and Rearviewmirror. I love him to bits, but screwing up the staples makes me crazy.


It's beacuse these days they don't have time or patience to rehearse. They just show up at the venue and hope everything will magically fall into place. That's why I don't like the bootlegs anymore. Shit performances. No excuse for it.


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 Post subject: Re: 2012 bootlegs
PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 11:43 pm 
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Cameronia wrote:
It's beacuse these days they don't have time or patience to rehearse. They just show up at the venue and hope everything will magically fall into place. That's why I don't like the bootlegs anymore. Shit performances. No excuse for it.


Those first two sentences are pretty absurd. How do you know they don't have the time and patience to rehearse anymore and that they hope everything falls magically into place exactly? I'm pretty sure if you listen to just about ANY bootleg of ANY band on tour, the first shows are always a lot rougher than the mid to latter shows of a tour. There will be some clunkers along the way but I'd say it's impossible for the first night of a tour to be perfect if you're coming off a few months or years lay off.


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 Post subject: Re: 2012 bootlegs
PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 11:58 pm 
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I didn't think there were more errors in Manchester II than the standard 1996-2000 show. Ed screwed up Animal, big deal. I mean, are people saying that Katowice II 2000 sucked because they royally screwed up "Release"? It is the horrid setlist in disc II of this show that pushes me away (although disc I is pretty damn good).

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 Post subject: Re: 2012 bootlegs
PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2012 12:36 pm 
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Ed mentioned in a interview during the 2009 end of the summer before backspacer tour that that didn't even practice for that tour and that they don't feel the need to rev up the machine or something to that extent. The biggest clue that they never practice anymore is how quickly some backspacer songs disappeared live, some never sounded right and other got play maybe twice. With previous albums, the band alway fleshed out there new songs. This disappeared after the west coast backspacer tour.

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 Post subject: Re: 2012 bootlegs
PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2012 1:37 pm 
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There was this recently too:

Quote:
http://www.musicradar.com/news/guitars/pearl-jams-stone-gossard-on-changing-the-setlist-every-night-552212

It's incredible that you change the setlist so much every night - what's the reality of that? When will the setlist be planned in relation to when you step onstage?

Well yesterday we got it about an hour and 15 minutes ahead of time. We hadn't played Black, Alive, Jeremy or Small Town in soundcheck or rehearsal in nine months. Because when we rehearse we're always kind of rehearsing the odds and ends that we don't really know that well. So we're always kind of assuming we know the main meat of the set.

But having said that, not having played something for a long time and you're thinking, 'I know it, I know it' then you can get up to that bridge and it's, 'What the f**k is that part?' You can be up there with your pants down. Luckily, last night, it all worked out - nothing too dramatic.

Regardless, I still thought Manchester 1 was a pretty solid boot. I enjoyed it more than I have many boots post-2006, so that's saying something.

Like The Rock suggested above, my personal preference would fall towards 'the hits plus the occasional well-chosen and well-rehearsed deep cut' as opposed to the unpredictable mixed bag they seem happy to stick with now. As it stands, I think Pearl Jam shows are one of those things you have to be a hardcore fan to really enjoy and I guess I'd prefer it not to be that way. But hey, I thought they struck the balance reasonably well in 2006 - I certainly don't think it's beyond them to get back there if they wanted to.


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 Post subject: Re: 2012 bootlegs
PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2012 1:40 pm 
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spenno wrote:
There was this recently too:

Quote:
http://www.musicradar.com/news/guitars/pearl-jams-stone-gossard-on-changing-the-setlist-every-night-552212

It's incredible that you change the setlist so much every night - what's the reality of that? When will the setlist be planned in relation to when you step onstage?

Well yesterday we got it about an hour and 15 minutes ahead of time. We hadn't played Black, Alive, Jeremy or Small Town in soundcheck or rehearsal in nine months. Because when we rehearse we're always kind of rehearsing the odds and ends that we don't really know that well. So we're always kind of assuming we know the main meat of the set.

But having said that, not having played something for a long time and you're thinking, 'I know it, I know it' then you can get up to that bridge and it's, 'What the f**k is that part?' You can be up there with your pants down. Luckily, last night, it all worked out - nothing too dramatic.

Regardless, I still thought Manchester 1 was a pretty solid boot. I enjoyed it more than I have many boots post-2006, so that's saying something.

Like The Rock suggested above, my personal preference would fall towards 'the hits plus the occasional well-chosen and well-rehearsed deep cut' as opposed to the unpredictable mixed bag they seem happy to stick with now. As it stands, I think Pearl Jam shows are one of those things you have to be a hardcore fan to really enjoy and I guess I'd prefer it not to be that way. But hey, I thought they struck the balance reasonably well in 2006 - I certainly don't think it's beyond them to get back there if they wanted to.

I'm on board with this post.

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 Post subject: Re: 2012 bootlegs
PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2012 1:55 pm 
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me too. I suspect they'll move back in that direction eventually since they've now played everything.

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 Post subject: Re: 2012 bootlegs
PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2012 4:17 pm 
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Still haven't found the downloads :(

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 Post subject: Re: 2012 bootlegs
PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2012 8:41 pm 
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KurtLeon wrote:
Still haven't found the downloads :(

I don't want to be "that guy", but.


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 Post subject: Re: 2012 bootlegs
PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2012 11:05 pm 
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dumbcharger wrote:
Cameronia wrote:
It's beacuse these days they don't have time or patience to rehearse. They just show up at the venue and hope everything will magically fall into place. That's why I don't like the bootlegs anymore. Shit performances. No excuse for it.


Those first two sentences are pretty absurd. How do you know they don't have the time and patience to rehearse anymore and that they hope everything falls magically into place exactly? I'm pretty sure if you listen to just about ANY bootleg of ANY band on tour, the first shows are always a lot rougher than the mid to latter shows of a tour. There will be some clunkers along the way but I'd say it's impossible for the first night of a tour to be perfect if you're coming off a few months or years lay off.


You would be wrong. At one end of the extreme you have your Coldplays and U2's that have a very tightly scripted show. At the other end you have jam bands like Dave Matthews Band that are different every night to the level of Pearl Jam. All of those examples, the Stones, the Who, Metallica...these are the bands that are Pearl Jam's peers in prestige, but Pearl Jam, since 2008 (or maybe '07), is EASILY the weakest live performers of the bunch. It's clear to anyone who's ever played an instrument, or listened to a lot of boots, that Pearl Jam didn't practice much prior to USA 2k, but were able to coast because they'd practiced so much in '97 - '00 already with 2 albums, SVT, and getting MC up to speed. 2003 obviously fits into the statement above...Riot Act and some of the rarities were practiced, others not so much (Hail Hail, anyone?) 2006 I think was their last go at being a respectable, vibrant, creative band...they were really proud of Avocado, rehearsed their asses off, played their asses off on tour, and were pissed with the lackluster crowd response (at least in early US legs). After that, I don't know that the band has rehearsed their back catalog beyond what's necessary for a soundcheck, because it has gotten rougher and rougher every year since on anything not new or rare.

I'm not saying they totally suck, or their shows aren't good/worthwhile, but you're not paying attention if you think the band (and not just Ed's voice) is at all on par with pre-2007 levels of performance or pre-USA2K levels of performance.

Really that was the most disappointing aspect of PJ20 for me...whether young or old, every other band there was tighter live than Pearl Jam, the guests of honor.

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