I watched this for the first time in ages last night, talking about death over in GD reminded me of the ending.

It seems quite clichéd, looking back on it in parts, but it's still very powerful and very moving. Anyone else a fan?

Not much of a fan. The performances and cinematography were wonderful, but the script damn near offended me. From my POV, it is to homosexuals what Guess Who's Coming to Dinner is to blacks: condescending.

Great, great soundtrack though.

I hated it...so obvious...so contrived...so deliberate...poor filmmaking

I thought it sucked.

never saw it but great song.

I'm surprised; but being a native of the city you would know better than myself. What in particular did you think was condescending? I did feel some parts were pretty contrived, but the story definitely sucked me in.

Hanks and Banderas' relationship in particular really struck me. I've several gay friends, including some older ones who are happily 'married' and I believed in them far more than I've believed in any on-screen couple in a long time.

A lot of Denzel's scenes after he finds out Andy has AIDS until quite far into the movie are a bit much - the paranoia and disgust etc- but I think his progression is brilliant at the end, and the role needed a character arc of some description anyway. I love the way he buys the bottle of Dom Perignon to bring to the hospital, a wine he wouldn't even buy when his child was born.

One thing I'm not sure about, though: When they're preparing for Andy's testimony, he goes through the opera, and after Joe leaves, he turns back, nearly knocking the door, then walks off. What's happening here?

I felt it was condescending in how the movie made Andy out to be this wonderfully nice guy who just happens to be gay and has AIDS. He has a rich family who loves him and a job on the Main Line, so we should sympathize with him. The movie wasn't a portrait of a gay man, but a portrait of an idealized gay man. It's almost like the filmmakers were saying "not all gay people are disgusting."

And I never really believed that each and every family member would be behind Andy 100%. This seems too good to be true. The film would have been much more effective if there was just a hint of conflict from one of the family members, not to mention realistic.

I think when Joe goes back to knock on the door, he wants to tell Andy that he's now come to accept homosexuality, but realizes it'd be better said in the courtoom. That's one of my favorite parts of the movie, because it's subtle enough to make the point without beating it over my head. I only wish Demme had practiced such subtlety throughout the entire film.

i like it alot. very moving

This was one of my possibilities.

I understand what you're saying about the idealized gay man. But most of the gay people I know come from loving supporting families and are extremely successful (although that probably has something to do with not having kids) and they don't seem that different to me. To be honest I think the point of the movie was that Andy was ' this wonderfully nice guy who just happens to be gay and has AIDS.' You might agree. I know that there are gay men out there totally opposite to Andy but if you consider the mechanics of the movie it was essential that Andy be a high-powered lawyer in a stuffy old firm.

Also - I agree with the family issue - there's usually at least one stubborn idiot who would spoil things and including this would have greatly aided realism.

I'm really not trying to kick off a fight here, I did say myself that I found some of it a bit much in my first post, but I hope that maybe someone who hasn't seen it could watch it and enjoy it.

I enjoyed it

I think this was more a sign of the times than anything else. Remember, the movie came out 13 years ago. Peoples perceptions about gay people were different than todays. Much more closed up. I think it was an appropriate movie for the time it came out, but if it came out today it would look pretty weak (for many of the already mentioned reasons).

This is the one where the gay WWII vet gets AIDS from a volcano and has to live in an apartment building as a woman with his friend the big police dog, right?

See Buggy, that's part of my problem with it. It wasn't as bold as it should have been, even for 1993; it didn't take any chances. Even in the early 90's, there's no reason why the audience had to be spoon-fed the idea of tolerance for homosexuality. I'd have much more respect for the film if it would tried to break down some barriers instead of simply going around them.

Well, I certainly wasnt suggesting it had to be bold, but again it was appropriate for the times. That's a whole different thing. They certainly could have been bolder if they wanted too, I wont argue with that.

Serious? The couple time I have been there I thought it was one of the worst places on earth I'd ever been.

What makes you say that?

Take into consideration that I have only visited a few times, never LIVED there.
It was really grungy and dirty, everywhere. The streets were chaotic, a lot of the layout a total mess. I cant imagine having to drive around there all the time. Lots of old construction, which isnt always a bad thing because in some cases there are some beautiful and historical things to see, but then there are a bazillion old, nasty looking brick houses that look slummy and 100 years old (because they are).
The encounters I had with locals were a mix. Some were super nice, and then some were just complete assholes. But my time with them was too short to get a realistic outlook of the people.
One thing though, if you go to the right place, they really do have the best cheese steak anywhere.

Also, take into consideration that I've lived a great deal of my life in California, by the beach and might be a bit spoiled as to how I like to see things and expect people to act. Everyone is totally relaxed and laid back in a beach town. Lots of surfing and just taking it easy or whatever. Almost always sunny and nice temperatures all year around. Pretty clean city and newer buildings and developments.

Completely understood. I've never been to the west coast but I can imagine how different it must be from Philly and the rest of the east coast. And as an outsider, so to speak, coming here must be like visiting another planet. But if you lived here and got to see all the cool places in the city, I think you'd find it's a pretty cool town. It has a personality unto itself.

Also, I did live in Pittsburgh for 5 years, so I'm not a total stranger to how things are "out there"
I would consider Pittsburgh a worse place than Philly, but that's just my opinion.