...had to exist, unless it existed already.

i'm a big Kerouac fan but i haven't read many of his novels in their original english version - my favorite of his anyway is Visions Of Cody, which may be my favorite book ever, even in its translated form.
from the small portion of Ginsberg's and Burrough's works, i've been deeply moved by Kaddish and The Naked Lunch - i picture Ginsberg more like a very passionate spokesman, defender and all-around showman and Burroughs as the Great Conspirator.
i've never read any Corso, Ferlinghetti - only catched exerpts from The First Third by Neal Cassady and i'm currently stuck in the middle of Off The Road by Carolyn Cassady, which is more of a biography than a work of art.

I'm a big fan of this generation of work as I've read pretty much everything Kerouac has written as well as a couple of Burroughs stuff and some smatterings of the rest, but my involvement in the genre has raised a few questions, as does my involvement in most any genre of substance and literary merit.

I think that we subscribe too much gravitas to the beat generation writers. Trust me, I know the weight of that sentence, but it's true. Kerouac was a genius in small doses, but for the most part he was a rambling fool. The work of his latter years only bears out in large quantities what his earlier works had smeared throughout. I barely finished The Subterraneans, and his last two short stories (Satori in Paris and the other which escapes me now) were nearly unreadable. On the Road was, to be sure, a weighty work, but his stuff, most assuredly his later catalogue, is no more than fodder for the drifters, interesting stuff for the aimless but not transcendent. Burroughs' work is just freaking batty and in a niche market (Naked Lunch was a straight rollercoaster of a work), and Ginsburg is along those lines as well.

Like I said, I can't discount these authors too much because they ushered in a new way of looking at the fiction genre. It was hip at the time and it certainly had its own flair. I dig it because of that. But I think people take it too far. They had nowhere near the impact of the Hemingway/Stein/Joyce/Fitzgerald generation but they get more praise from a lot of folks these days because it's cooler to read about Kerouac's boozed-up characters or Burroughs' drugged out ones than to read some abstract piece that requires more thought.

I didn't mean to rag on these generation too much, but to create some healthy debate. I do enjoy most of Kerouac's stuff, and I flew through Junky, so this genre is not lost on me at all. In fact, Kerouac spawned this desire in me to find more along the lines of "transient-drifter-figuring out life as he goes-novel" genre, which is incredibly appealing and immediately readable to nearly every teenager and has a cool factor of well over 10 for anybody under 30, or more appropriately, anybody who wasn't alive when the books were written.

So yes, I appreciate this stuff, and am always open to more suggestions as to beat writers that weren't in the mainstream (although Hunter S. Thompson had the genre edged with his Gonzo Journalism stuff, but that debate is for another day).

Boo.

(I do like Burroughs, though.)

Burroughs was badass in Ministry's "Just One Fix".

I was speaking with a friend the other day aboue Kerouac actually. I think i actually (partly) agree with the notion that he was a genius in small doses. I think he was at his best when he wasn't as typically 'beat'...and by that i mean when his ideas were a little more centred and concise. Less rambley. I love the style of writing, but i really think On The Road is 100 pages too long. At some points it feels like an effort, and there isn't enough warmth to it to make you care about what Sal/Dean get up to. Don't get me wrong, i enjoyed it on the whole, but compare it to The Dharma Bums ( ), and you'll see what i mean. The Dharma Bums was 100 pages shorter, and could esssentially be split into 3 parts (all with a clearl separate and distinctive voice, unlike the 5 parts of On The Road), yet the writing still maintains that pure and almost lyrical, beat style that characterised him. I think it's my favourite of Kerouac's work.

I love Ginsberg, but i think he became slightly irrelevent later on with his writing.

I've heard mixed thoughts on Burroughs, i have a friend who loves him, but i'm yet to dip my toes into him.

Just a wee bit overrated. They also didn't know shit about jazz.

After I got really into Kerouac several years ago, I thought it would be a good idea to explore Ginsberg, Burroughs, Corso, and even Ferlenghetti. I found that I don't really like beat literature, I just like Keroauc. The theme of youth, freedom, and a connection to nature and people in the world are what appeal to me more than enything else. Kerouac is good for that.

haha. This is the exact impression I got. Though I plan on giving them a fair shot.

Hell, Kerouac doesn't even need a fair shot. Read Dharma Bums and it should instantly be one of your faves. It's the rest of the genre (and the rest of his library) that will probably give you pause. They're not even close to being as good as they're billed, although it's a good read if you're feeling in a wandering, existential sort of mood and in no rush for intelligible answers.

man folks, this stuff kicks, nobody likes the beat writers?

No.

i'm hip to them cats groove...

I dig their style. But, I don't know...it lacks overall focus. What I mean by that is I find that I'll love sections of their works, as in there will be a great, just fucking incredible paragraph or a wonderful description, but the story as a whole is too meandering for me, too cloudy. I respect a great deal what they did though. They developed another style to approach in writing. But in the end I think they were just all too damn fucked up on heroin, booze, coke, and everything else to write any 'real' classic, transcendent work.

I liked "On The Road" a lot, but I am not really much of a reader.

I've read way too much Bukowski, he kind of hated these guys even though he hung with them. Much better stuff if you ask me.

True that. Factotum and On the Road are incredible..But better than all those guys is John Fante. 'Brotherhood of the grape' is one of the most enjoyable books i've ever read. Actually he has a few with his character Arturo Bandini and they're all great. Give him a shot. Way more beat than most if not all the beat guys, as is Bukowski.

I enjoyed that one novel Bukowski wrote, I think it was Women, in which his character has a chance to meet burroughs but refuses. I don't think he stated a reason other then, eh, I'm drunk and I plain just don't care.

I'm a fan of some of these. I like the fact that On the Road is kinda autobiographical, and the frantic pacing of the narrative. That's the only Kerouac I've read.

I used to LOVE Bukowski in my teenage years-read quite a bit of his. It kinda got a bit samey though. Get job, have sex, get drunk, late to work, get sacked, lose apartment, start over. I loved Bukowski, but looking back, there wasn't a whole lot of literary genius in it, so to speak.

Read a few Burroughs when I was a teenager, too. Loved 'Junkie'.

Actually went to City Lights Bookstore in San Francisco in June 2003 before the Shoreline PJ show. Just stumbled across it. What a thrill. Spent hours in it!

*snaps fingers*

the whole beat generation thing didn't have a lot of depth, the more i kind of delve into it, but those expecting those lofty ideals to permeate these works is looking for the wrong things in the wrong places. you just don't like this stuff, thats fine, i don't have a problem with that, but your standards kind of have to change from where people have told you they should be when you read this stuff. kerouac is not a modern genius nor is on the road one of the greatest novels ever. he was a great storyteller with a bassackwards style that a lot people said, "well, this is genius" because, i think, they were afraid or too lazy or generally unable to really diagnose what the hell it actually was. tell it like it is: it was rambling, at times incoherently.

the stuff is good, great at times, and when im in a hedonistic mood ill reach for naked lunch or whatever. but to be honest, steinbeck was a better 'beat generation' writer than any of these guys and he wasn't even in that scene. i put tortilla flat in the same ballpark and it owns anything any of those guys did.