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 Post subject: Re: holy shit, it's poetry.
PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 6:21 pm 
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Mickey wrote:
Harmless wrote:
Great posts Mickey.

I was briefer because I just couldn't be arsed anymore. Some people can't be convinced and should continue to enjoy what they enjoy, Hallmark cards or whatever.


You're also nicer than I am.


Eh, maybe. Still really pisses me off that people hold poetry to lesser standards than they do other art forms. I think the best argument we've got involves comparing it to other art forms, like:

Would you enjoy a band who had no idea how to play an instrument?

Would you enjoy a movie filmed on a camera phone?

etc.

People assume poetry is different, and it pisses me off. It's the fault of the greetings card industry, I'm sure... among other things.


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 Post subject: Re: holy shit, it's poetry.
PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 9:41 pm 
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Harmless wrote:
Mickey wrote:
Harmless wrote:
Great posts Mickey.

I was briefer because I just couldn't be arsed anymore. Some people can't be convinced and should continue to enjoy what they enjoy, Hallmark cards or whatever.


You're also nicer than I am.


Eh, maybe. Still really pisses me off that people hold poetry to lesser standards than they do other art forms. I think the best argument we've got involves comparing it to other art forms, like:

Would you enjoy a band who had no idea how to play an instrument?

Would you enjoy a movie filmed on a camera phone?


etc.

People assume poetry is different, and it pisses me off. It's the fault of the greetings card industry, I'm sure... among other things.


I'm not sure whether people really make that connection, since both movies and music are easier to make look pretty. I guess that's because little people would have the idea to make a movie using a camera phone or listen to music of people that have no idea about playing instruments.

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 Post subject: Re: holy shit, it's poetry.
PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 9:49 pm 
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'red wheelbarrow' didnt reveal anything new to me about the nature of wheelbarrows or farms. i knew that stuff mattered. it's pretty obvious. people need food and shit to live, and you move shit that gets you that other shit with wheelbarrows, which might be red.

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 Post subject: Re: holy shit, it's poetry.
PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 11:53 pm 
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dkfan9 wrote:
'red wheelbarrow' didnt reveal anything new to me about the nature of wheelbarrows or farms. i knew that stuff mattered. it's pretty obvious. people need food and shit to live, and you move shit that gets you that other shit with wheelbarrows, which might be red.


Poetry is also never about revealing new things to people, but really, that was the least incorrect thing she said.

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 Post subject: Re: holy shit, it's poetry.
PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 12:26 am 
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yeah i mean i was just rambling. i'm tired and grumpy. and i want to get up at 9am tomorrow so i can't drink tonight, cause i know i won't get up cause i'm self sabotaging when i deal with the choice of whether to get out of bed when hungover.

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 Post subject: Re: holy shit, it's poetry.
PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 3:34 am 
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Raziel wrote:
Harmless wrote:
Mickey wrote:
Harmless wrote:
Great posts Mickey.

I was briefer because I just couldn't be arsed anymore. Some people can't be convinced and should continue to enjoy what they enjoy, Hallmark cards or whatever.


You're also nicer than I am.


Eh, maybe. Still really pisses me off that people hold poetry to lesser standards than they do other art forms. I think the best argument we've got involves comparing it to other art forms, like:

Would you enjoy a band who had no idea how to play an instrument?

Would you enjoy a movie filmed on a camera phone?


etc.

People assume poetry is different, and it pisses me off. It's the fault of the greetings card industry, I'm sure... among other things.


I'm not sure whether people really make that connection, since both movies and music are easier to make look pretty. I guess that's because little people would have the idea to make a movie using a camera phone or listen to music of people that have no idea about playing instruments.


A work of art can be produced on a camera phone; depends on what is trying to be conveyed. An interesting idea, not out of the realm of possibility; but in all cinematographic regard a vast majority is lost.

Music without the knowledge/ability to play an instrument = noise.

I very much enjoy the love of craft here, we're tried consummate students... well I am anyway.

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 Post subject: Re: holy shit, it's poetry.
PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 5:28 am 
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Yeah I was thinking about the camera phone thing. I guess you can capture a basic idea using a camera phone and if the intent and what you're capturing with it is strong enough, something might get across. It can work once as a stylistic device, too. However, it helps if you have a understanding of lighting, cutting, the right film/ camera to use etc. to increase the chance to produce something really great. Bla. Posting the morning after the night of heavy drinking is usually just as bad as posting the night of heavy drinking. I guess I'm guilty of both.

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 Post subject: Re: holy shit, it's poetry.
PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:26 am 
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dkfan9 wrote:
'red wheelbarrow' didnt reveal anything new to me about the nature of wheelbarrows or farms. i knew that stuff mattered. it's pretty obvious. people need food and shit to live, and you move shit that gets you that other shit with wheelbarrows, which might be red.


I'm not sure if you read my overlong post about this poem a while back, but The Red Wheelbarrow is actually about the art of writing. WCW was a member of a group of poets called the Imagists. They believed that the most important thing in poetry was a crisply drawn image: ie. the red wheelbarrow and white chickens, which are plain, simple images, with opposing bright colours.

'So much depends upon the images' is the point of the poem. The reader is able to make up the rest of the story, imagine what else is going on, because the images have been painted clearly.

Another element in this poem is a perfect demonstration of how linebreaks should be done. In this poem, the image is shot first normally, then with a macro lens, then the view shifts over left or right to the white chickens. All of these shifts in our mind as we read are caused by where the linebreaks are placed. So it's a good comparison with the film. I almost think it would be fun to make a film of The Red Wheelbarrow, so that you could see what the writer was doing.

Anyway, it's all in the post I wrote ages ago. This poem actually poetically sets out the way the Imagists believed poets should write. It sets out their philosophy, one which became extremely widespread in Modern poetry, and still is pretty central to writing now: 'so much depends upon the image', and painting it clearly so that the reader can clearly imagine it.


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 Post subject: Re: holy shit, it's poetry.
PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 11:41 pm 
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i just couldn't justify reading your post about WCW's TRW, no offense; i'm not a poetry guy (i'll read short poems for a visceral reaction, but not much else, and mostly only in release). i don't even really read long posts about music anymore usually, and i still love music...

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 Post subject: Re: holy shit, it's poetry.
PostPosted: Sun Apr 25, 2010 7:30 am 
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Fair enough man, I did wax on a bit... but some of what I said there is condensed here anyway, so...

In short, the Red Wheelbarrow doesn't do 'everything', but it's a good, clever little poem.


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 Post subject: Re: holy shit, it's poetry.
PostPosted: Sun Apr 25, 2010 9:33 pm 
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I don't know why I bother attempting conversations with certain people on this board, it always ends in "No I'M right, everyone else shut up while I stroke my ego". Enjoy the circle-wank guys, I'm out.

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 Post subject: Re: holy shit, it's poetry.
PostPosted: Sun Apr 25, 2010 9:35 pm 
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Great response to the holes in your argument. Really, you're right.

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 Post subject: Re: holy shit, it's poetry.
PostPosted: Sun Apr 25, 2010 9:40 pm 
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Raziel wrote:
Yeah I was thinking about the camera phone thing. I guess you can capture a basic idea using a camera phone and if the intent and what you're capturing with it is strong enough, something might get across. It can work once as a stylistic device, too. However, it helps if you have a understanding of lighting, cutting, the right film/ camera to use etc. to increase the chance to produce something really great. Bla. Posting the morning after the night of heavy drinking is usually just as bad as posting the night of heavy drinking. I guess I'm guilty of both.


Yeah, I was thinking about that a little. I think you can only make a truly great movie on a shitty device if you know the techniques you're rejecting and why. Aka some kid with a Nokia filming something probably isn't going to be a great work of art, but if the Coen brothers took what they know and used this medium, I think it could be great. There's also the issue of lo-fi music, but how much of that is shit and how many of the musicians were aware of what they were rejecting?

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 Post subject: Re: holy shit, it's poetry.
PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 12:13 pm 
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Can someone write a poem about this picture?

Image

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 Post subject: Re: holy shit, it's poetry.
PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 12:59 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: holy shit, it's poetry.
PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 1:00 pm 
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5-7-5, chud

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 Post subject: Re: holy shit, it's poetry.
PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 1:14 pm 
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Also, I'm persuaded by Harmless' and Mickey's arguments in this thread.

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 Post subject: Re: holy shit, it's poetry.
PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 1:15 pm 
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theplatypus wrote:
5-7-5, chud


LOL

Thodoks, I can give it a go. I need some background... Waffle House's reputation, who's eating next to Obi, etc.


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 Post subject: Re: holy shit, it's poetry.
PostPosted: Tue Jun 01, 2010 7:39 pm 
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Can we get in one of these gang fights again? I'm bored.

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 Post subject: Re: holy shit, it's poetry.
PostPosted: Thu Jun 03, 2010 5:45 am 
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Honestly Mickey, poetry is straight up and down bullshit. Work on your guitar skills instead. You can get away with being a subpar lyricist if you have a sense of melody.

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