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 Post subject: Re: Soundboard Remasters Series (pre-2000 bootlegs)
PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 1:54 am 
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Are you seriously suggesting that I should even slightly base my opinion on these recordings on the way they appear in a computer program? I wouldn't even have the slightest clue what I was looking for.

I'm analytical, too, but LOL @ looking at sound files on a computer being the "proper" way to evaluate music.

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 Post subject: Re: Soundboard Remasters Series (pre-2000 bootlegs)
PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 1:56 am 
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You're just too lazy, Kevin.

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 Post subject: Re: Soundboard Remasters Series (pre-2000 bootlegs)
PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 1:58 am 
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Que?

He suggested that you match the volume levels and then listen to both, not feed them into the AUDIOMATIC 3000 and wait for it to decide which is superior.


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 Post subject: Re: Soundboard Remasters Series (pre-2000 bootlegs)
PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 2:00 am 
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cutuphalfdead wrote:
You're just too lazy, Kevin.


And I have a rage problem too!

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 Post subject: Re: Soundboard Remasters Series (pre-2000 bootlegs)
PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 2:02 am 
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Kevin Davis wrote:
cutuphalfdead wrote:
You're just too lazy, Kevin.


And I have a rage problem too!

Calm down!

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 Post subject: Re: Soundboard Remasters Series (pre-2000 bootlegs)
PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 2:04 am 
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spenno wrote:
Que?

He suggested that you match the volume levels and then listen to both, not feed them into the AUDIOMATIC 3000 and wait for it to decide which is superior.

The post came off a bit dickish.

Kevin: I'm not going to technically scrutinize an audio file to convince myself what is better
lip: what you're saying is you can't be bothered to listen properly

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 Post subject: Re: Soundboard Remasters Series (pre-2000 bootlegs)
PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 2:06 am 
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I think Kevin misunderstood what lip was suggesting he do, though.


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 Post subject: Re: Soundboard Remasters Series (pre-2000 bootlegs)
PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 2:08 am 
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Maybe. But I think the dickish tone is in part due to the line he chose to quote in the post. He sounded like he was suggesting that if you don't scrutinize a song from a technical standpoint then you're not listening properly.

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 Post subject: Re: Soundboard Remasters Series (pre-2000 bootlegs)
PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 2:24 am 
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spenno wrote:
Que?

He suggested that you match the volume levels and then listen to both, not feed them into the AUDIOMATIC 3000 and wait for it to decide which is superior.


I said I didn't hear the same phaser effect he was talking about, and that I thought JWB's new mix surpassed my old copy in terms of quality, and he suggested that I track down a computer program, import the sound files into it, tinker with the volume levels, compare, and report back. I (quite respectfully) said I had no interest in doing that, that the new recording sounding better to my ears than my old copy was sufficient for me, and he replied that I was therefore unwilling to take the time to compare them "properly." I don't follow this. It seems like he was telling me that my comparison of my old copy with JWB's new master was not sufficient because I didn't factor in yet a third version, a hypothetical variation on my original copy. That's warped logic. You might as well tell me I can't properly prefer "Faithfull" to "The Fixer" because I've never properly compared "Faithfull" to "Just Breathe." There are three different items in the discussion, and looking back I can't find where I presumed to compare anything beyond the two with which I was familiar. So yeah, I thought it came off a little dickish.

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 Post subject: Re: Soundboard Remasters Series (pre-2000 bootlegs)
PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 3:32 am 
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He might've been a little abrupt in his phrasing, but I think he was only trying to suggest a method by which you could test his assertion that the original sounds more natural than the remaster. It doesn't create a hypothetical third version so much as place the existing two versions on a level playing field so they can be more accurately compared.

For the record, and hopefully I can say this without offending Cameronia, I'm actually with lip in regards to the sound. Though I recognise an "audiophile" presentation wasn't the aim of this series, I still prefer the original source (or the EQ'd copy I've made) in all cases. The limiting just isn't to my tastes - it squashes the dynamic range too much.

That said, these guys have done a lot of hard work on this collection and I'm glad to see people are really enjoying it - and hopefully I didn't piss either of these fine gentlemen off.

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 Post subject: Re: Soundboard Remasters Series (pre-2000 bootlegs)
PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 5:21 am 
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**Edit. Never mind, I realize reading back through this thread that I just don't understand any of this in the slightest.

Apologies to lipidicman if anything I said came off as rude.

PEACE AND LOVE!

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 Post subject: Re: Soundboard Remasters Series (pre-2000 bootlegs)
PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 8:57 am 
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Kevin Davis wrote:
Apologies to lipidicman if anything I said came off as rude.

No offense taken Kevin. I apologise too. We had a misunderstanding as perhaps I didn't take the time to explain myself. I was in a rush and was tired.

I'm not suggesting looking at waveforms, creating a third version, or anything like that. In fact, I've deliberately not done that.

lipidicman wrote:
Kevin Davis wrote:
I don't really have the compulsion to technically scrutinize what I feel is the better-sounding recording simply for the purpose of convincing myself that it's the worse-sounding one.
What you are saying here is that you won't take the time to compare them properly. Fair enough then.

I'm aware that we all listen to music differently and I am aware that I am extremely analytical. I'm not sure what else to say.


My only point was that if I wanted to convince you that one track (or cd player, or amp) was better than another I could simply nudge up the volume and wait for your reaction. That is why volume leveling is important. If you want to give a fair comparison to two tracks (or systems) you must level match them. That was all I was saying.

Cheers for the agreement Spenno. I'm totally with you in that I don't want to offend anyone who has clearly put in tons of effort and produced a series that lots of people will love. There's a reason that the loudness wars have been lost: the masses seem to love loud (but I digress). I didn't want to jump in and pan the effort, rather I applaud it, but not to comment would be at odds to what I have been saying about the official boots over the years.

I'm nervous though as this place does get pretty heated pretty quickly.

Hi Chud :wave:


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 Post subject: Re: Soundboard Remasters Series (pre-2000 bootlegs)
PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 6:27 pm 
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lipidicman wrote:
Hi Chud :wave:

:wave:

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 Post subject: Re: Soundboard Remasters Series (pre-2000 bootlegs)
PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 2:29 am 
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Sadly my AUDIOMATIC 3000 is broken. Ears ftw!

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 Post subject: Re: Soundboard Remasters Series (pre-2000 bootlegs)
PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 6:47 am 
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Varis wrote:
Sadly my AUDIOMATIC 3000 is broken. Ears ftw!
I have a feeling this is going to become a thing.


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 Post subject: Re: Soundboard Remasters Series (pre-2000 bootlegs)
PostPosted: Sat Mar 17, 2012 1:51 pm 
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lipidicman wrote:
Varis wrote:
Sadly my AUDIOMATIC 3000 is broken. Ears ftw!
I have a feeling this is going to become a thing.


not to dredge this up again, but I finally got around to comparing the remasters side by side with what I previously had for each show (which I had planned on doing from the outset), and I agree with you. I don't do it as technically as you do - just load the same song from each version in Audacity, and amplify the softer source till they look similar - but in almost every case I preferred the un-remastered version. The remasters lost a bunch of dynamic range and high-end, and for some shows the stereo separation that I tend to prefer is way less (if that makes sense, not sure if I am describing it well).

I agree it totally comes down to personal preference. And you did accomplish the stated goal, to make them sound more like the official boots. But I guess I wish the official boots sounded more like 4/3/94, 3/17/95, and 3/5/98 :)

either way, thanks for all the time and effort, and the artwork is awesome!


Last edited by totalsellout on Sat Mar 17, 2012 5:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Soundboard Remasters Series (pre-2000 bootlegs)
PostPosted: Sat Mar 17, 2012 1:58 pm 
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Hey, many thanks for this. I created a few CDs for the morning commute. Brings back a lot of memories from the early years. :thumbsup:

Did you ever think about remastering all of the TV performances (Letterman, SNL, Conan, etc.)?

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 Post subject: Re: Soundboard Remasters Series (pre-2000 bootlegs)
PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2012 2:33 am 
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For the last time, these are not audiophile remasters. If they are too loud and compressed for you then blame it on Pearl Jam. I was only following their lead. Also, the EQ choices made are affected by the loudness. If a show had a lot of treble, I had to pull back, or else they would be painful to listen to at such volumes.


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 Post subject: Re: Soundboard Remasters Series (pre-2000 bootlegs)
PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2012 6:33 am 
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I heard mankind from july 98 on the sirius the other day.

Whats whats up with that? Was that broadcast back then or something?

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 Post subject: Re: Soundboard Remasters Series (pre-2000 bootlegs)
PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2012 6:37 am 
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No, just a board tape that did the rounds in trading circles as far as I know. I remember a rumour that Stone gave it to a fan but that could be entirely made-up.


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