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 Post subject: Re: European Tour 2012 - It's Over. Thoughts?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 11:19 pm 
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track12 wrote:
spenno wrote:
the band objectively sound worse in the past five years than at any time previously.


I agree with you spenno, but this is reaching. Objectively? By what measure? I've been listening to the Japan 2003 jaunt, and there are more screw-ups in those shows than most 2008-2012 shows. Despite that, I LOVE those shows because they are quiet, intense, unique. What objective yardstick are you using? I can easily see someone preferring present-day PJ to earlier shows. They jam out songs more than before, the sets are more varied, and yeah, they are more "fun".

They do screw up a fair bit on those early 2003 shows, but Ed's voice was much stronger and sets were far more interesting. Considering those aspects, I do think they were better then than now.


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 Post subject: Re: European Tour 2012 - It's Over. Thoughts?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 12:01 am 
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...edited to reflect spenno's edit...

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 Post subject: Re: European Tour 2012 - It's Over. Thoughts?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 12:07 am 
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track12 wrote:
...edited to reflect spenno's edit...

Heh, just in time!

In any case, I'm not really interested in a debate over whether I'm right or wrong on that point; it was only a very small part of that post.


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 Post subject: Re: European Tour 2012 - It's Over. Thoughts?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 12:21 am 
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track12 wrote:
I also would say that I vastly prefer 2012 live PJ to 1990-1993 live PJ. I cannot force myself to listen to those immature, testosterone-laden, "see how much I can throw myself around while hitting everything as hard as possible" shows. So while I agree that they have gone downhill since 2006, I don't agree with "this is the worst they have EVER been".

was anyone else totally confused by this post or just me?

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 Post subject: Re: European Tour 2012 - It's Over. Thoughts?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 12:52 am 
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spenno wrote:
track12 wrote:
...edited to reflect spenno's edit...

Heh, just in time!

In any case, I'm not really interested in a debate over whether I'm right or wrong on that point; it was only a very small part of that post.


Dude, it is not a small point to say that anyone that disagrees with you is factually incorrect, or that your statement contained no element of personal prejudice.

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 Post subject: Re: European Tour 2012 - It's Over. Thoughts?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 4:34 am 
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track12 wrote:
I also would say that I vastly prefer 2012 live PJ to 1990-1993 live PJ.


Yeah, this I can get behind too. I'd draw the line at '92 instead of '93, but I would agree mostly for the reasons you list. Too much of Eddie sounding like the guy described in that Salon article.

To be clear, I don't dislike 2012 (or I guess I have to say 2011, as the only 2012 performance I've heard was that mangling of "Hitchhiker") Pearl Jam for any fundamental reason other than I think they need to rehearse more, and I don't think I ever said that enjoying the energy at a show was a bad thing. For me, though, the two (the quality of music and the energy) are tied together--the excessive screwups actively deflate the energy, which is a large part of why they're so irritating.

dimejinky99 wrote:
I can speak for a lot of touring fans when I say that I go nowadays to catch up with friends and hang out with them as much as it is about the shows. It's not about an adrenaline rush. It [i]Is[i] still about the pokemon card factor for me and many others, ie, getting to hear songs you've never heard live(still waiting on Oceans) and that's a large and fun part of it and those chats in the pub after about the first time you saw this or that song or how songs have changed over time. Good stuff. The gigs are at the heart of it but there are many other reasons we go. Not cos we have to.


I don't get the impression that most of the posters on RM are of the "follow the band on the road and keep a journal of the songs we've seen live and then compare data in the pub afterwards" variety, nor are most concert attendees. If that's your thing, cool, but it shouldn't discredit the opinion of another listener who isn't so swept up in some buzz he's feeling from all these secondary components of the concert experience.

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 Post subject: Re: European Tour 2012 - It's Over. Thoughts?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 5:12 am 
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Kevin Davis wrote:
track12 wrote:
I also would say that I vastly prefer 2012 live PJ to 1990-1993 live PJ.


Yeah, this I can get behind too. I'd draw the line at '92 instead of '93, but I would agree mostly for the reasons you list.

I'm not particularly keen on 1992 shows (in particular) for those same reasons, but not to the point where I'd actually prefer a 2008-2012 performance: neither are particularly interesting to me, but for different reasons.

I quite enjoy the Krusen/Chamberlain 1991 shows and I like the 1993 shows just fine.


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 Post subject: Re: European Tour 2012 - It's Over. Thoughts?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 10:04 pm 
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Kevin Davis wrote:
track12 wrote:
I also would say that I vastly prefer 2012 live PJ to 1990-1993 live PJ.


Yeah, this I can get behind too. I'd draw the line at '92 instead of '93, but I would agree mostly for the reasons you list. Too much of Eddie sounding like the guy described in that Salon article.

To be clear, I don't dislike 2012 (or I guess I have to say 2011, as the only 2012 performance I've heard was that mangling of "Hitchhiker") Pearl Jam for any fundamental reason other than I think they need to rehearse more, and I don't think I ever said that enjoying the energy at a show was a bad thing. For me, though, the two (the quality of music and the energy) are tied together--the excessive screwups actively deflate the energy, which is a large part of why they're so irritating.

dimejinky99 wrote:
I can speak for a lot of touring fans when I say that I go nowadays to catch up with friends and hang out with them as much as it is about the shows. It's not about an adrenaline rush. It [i]Is[i] still about the pokemon card factor for me and many others, ie, getting to hear songs you've never heard live(still waiting on Oceans) and that's a large and fun part of it and those chats in the pub after about the first time you saw this or that song or how songs have changed over time. Good stuff. The gigs are at the heart of it but there are many other reasons we go. Not cos we have to.


I don't get the impression that most of the posters on RM are of the "follow the band on the road and keep a journal of the songs we've seen live and then compare data in the pub afterwards" variety, nor are most concert attendees. If that's your thing, cool, but it shouldn't discredit the opinion of another listener who isn't so swept up in some buzz he's feeling from all these secondary components of the concert experience.


Agree completely but I didn't do that nor did anyone who attended shows recently I believe but we do face a lot of disdain for having enjoyed those shows and gotten more out of them than recent years. And spenno, it isn't all PJ all the time, by no means. Hardly. But those chats do happen from time to time. Different versions of those chats(albums, versions of songs, endless drummer debate) happen here every single day in countless threads so it's not like we can sniff at anyone who does enjoy those conversations over a pint.

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 Post subject: Re: European Tour 2012 - It's Over. Thoughts?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 10:27 pm 
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dimejinky99 wrote:
we do face a lot of disdain for having enjoyed those shows and gotten more out of them than recent years.

lol, don't be ridiculous.

dimejinky99 wrote:
it isn't all PJ all the time, by no means. Hardly. But those chats do happen from time to time. Different versions of those chats(albums, versions of songs, endless drummer debate) happen here every single day in countless threads so it's not like we can sniff at anyone who does enjoy those conversations over a pint.

Who's sniffing? All I said is that following the band around wouldn't be for me.


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 Post subject: Re: European Tour 2012 - It's Over. Thoughts?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 11:21 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: European Tour 2012 - It's Over. Thoughts?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 4:39 am 
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spenno wrote:
dimejinky99 wrote:
we do face a lot of disdain for having enjoyed those shows and gotten more out of them than recent years.

lol, don't be ridiculous.

dimejinky99 wrote:
it isn't all PJ all the time, by no means. Hardly. But those chats do happen from time to time. Different versions of those chats(albums, versions of songs, endless drummer debate) happen here every single day in countless threads so it's not like we can sniff at anyone who does enjoy those conversations over a pint.

Who's sniffing? All I said is that following the band around wouldn't be for me.



You probably missed those posts. They weren't yours btw.

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 Post subject: Re: European Tour 2012 - It's Over. Thoughts?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 11:06 am 
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I am one of those people who do enjoy the touring part as well. Seeing good friends that only meet once a year or so or even less, combined with the whole joy of seeing our favorite band(s) together. It *is* about the music. A celebration.
Only, to save on money and time and energy, we only planned 4 concerts this 'tour'. And I went to 2, after all. Both Amsterdam ones.
The first one was great, absolutely perfect, even though I knew they could be better ('second nights are always better'). And that was the second one. Pure magic! What a set list and what a band. They really are very professional and giving it all, while at the same time staying in touch with the audience. I was surrounded by people who saw them for their first time, and they were blown away. But only the 'old' fans knew what was so special about this set list. After Bugs I forgot I was on that stupid plateau so I broke my foot during Betterman, out of all songs... Spent five songs at the first aid next to the stage, and every single one was like a total shock, in a good way. Was back in time for CROWN OF THORNS (!) and enjoyed it all a lot. The after party lasted until everything was closed, and most people were amazed.
I don't care about lyrics mistakes. They keep things unpredictable. And besides, they are his own lyrics, he can do whatever he wants to with them. I agree with the 'stop smoking' but the voice was still in top shape.
After A'dam II, I could have just died a happy person. But then we also got the Eddie solo shows a month later :).
And even though I missed the other shows, it was still a joy to follow the set lists. And I got to finally hear Cropduster, on two phones.

groetjes,
Mirella :)

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 Post subject: Re: European Tour 2012 - It's Over. Thoughts?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 11:17 am 
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I assume you have all seen this one?

groetjes,
Mirella :)

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 Post subject: Re: European Tour 2012 - It's Over. Thoughts?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 5:30 pm 
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Ed sounds pretty good there.

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 Post subject: Re: European Tour 2012 - It's Over. Thoughts?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 8:15 pm 
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That is what I mean. I don't have any complaints.

groetjes,
Mirella :)

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