Post subject: Re: 2012-09-30: U of M Adams Center: Misoula, MT
Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 8:32 am
Master of Meh
Joined: Fri May 19, 2006 11:00 pm Posts: 13226 Location: Adelaide, AUS
inglishteecher wrote:
guys, wtf? i don't think tuolumne came into this thread to pick a fight. he or she has less than 100 points and probably came in to be a part of a genuine discussion amongst fans.
Kevin and plat covered this pretty comprehensively on the previous page, but a genuine discussion among fans was exactly what this thread was until Tuolumne pulled his usual schtick of rolling in, calling everyone jerks and entirely sidetracking the discussion.
I think it's true that Pearl Jam are responsible (in part) for creating that expectation in their fan base, however I (and apparently Ed) think through doing that they've backed themselves into a corner from which it's increasingly difficult to extricate themselves. The position they've found themselves in is of a band serving up a veritable jukebox of past glories and, whether by accident or design, it's placed a constraint on their ability to figure out what Pearl Jam actually means to these musicians in 2012.
This was a quote by Spenno in another topic, and it applies here. They can't win. If they play a bunch of rarities, alot of people are unhappy, if they play a straightforward set, people are unhappy. They are almost obligated to play some rarities. They did last night, plus they sat down and mixed it up a little and it was still not good enough. No Even Flow, no Fixer.........
Well, they can win. Look at any of the setlists in the second half of the EU tour. Setlists are not the defining measure of a show by any means, but people with 30+ shows do care that it's not all Ten, Vs., Avocado, and Backspacer and this show was filled with those fans. That leads into what I think has been bugging me about recent US PJ shows: it seems like they ignore the No Code through Binaural run when making setlists and IMHO, that is their best music. At this one they did squeeze in Off He Goes and Low Light, which was great, but those albums are beloved by fans and they are far deeper than DTE and G2F standards.
I do wonder if they are trying to pare down the American fan base again, much like they did in 95, in order to get back to the type of band they think they should be.
p911gt10c wrote:
I was in 203 as well. Were you near the vomit guy?
Was that you?
I was in row 6. I didn't see that dude, but I saw the cops rolling up there just as the show was starting. BTW, your link to that picture didn't work.
Post subject: Re: 2012-09-30: U of M Adams Center: Misoula, MT
Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 2:21 pm
Banned from the Pit
Joined: Wed Mar 16, 2011 2:38 am Posts: 95
spenno wrote:
inglishteecher wrote:
guys, wtf? i don't think tuolumne came into this thread to pick a fight. he or she has less than 100 points and probably came in to be a part of a genuine discussion amongst fans.
Kevin and plat covered this pretty comprehensively on the previous page, but a genuine discussion among fans was exactly what this thread was until Tuolumne pulled his usual schtick of rolling in, calling everyone jerks and entirely sidetracking the discussion.
You're so deep into this board that you can't see the hypocrisy. If anyone says, "I love the Fixer, or Inside Job", the vultures come and drop about 100 posts of bird poop onto the discussion. This has happened to me. Who's being the jerk? It goes both ways. Have I called someone a jerk? No, actually someone called ME a jerk. Read the posts. It's fucked up, isn't it? But that's the Fox News-like funhouse mirror that this board has unfortunately become. You simply don't like my opinion, and it ruins your little party. Look at the responses to my own posts when researching what I've done in the past.
Let me just address the contradiction of me being on this board (since Given2Trade or his compadres won't address their contradiction of being present here): I LOVE this band, therefore I am here. Second, I find some genuinely interesting and thoughtful posts coming from people like Stip, Harmless, VinylGuy and others. That's the part of the board I like, and I'm cool with opposing opinions but the discussions go off the tracks with the same "I hate the Fixer" craziness everytime.
Then there's the wingnut Tea Party faction of this board, which I openly hate and rail against. I am unapologentic about my opinion on that. Yes, I can be quite a prick to those I have a polar opposite opinion with, and I actually take great pride when someone who's so far off the tracks dislikes me.
Something else that is self-evident, to me atleast: Given2Trade (he's an example but there's lots like him here) is not into this band anymore. I'm not reading between the lines here, he says this. Also, he's not inspired by the band and hasn't been for quite sometime. That's cool with me. AND he's actually stated he most-likely will not like the next record. AND, I don't see any evidence of him leaving here anytime soon. This is not cool with me. In fact, he says he'll be sticking around, and will be ripping on the band. What that means is this: there will be hundreds, if not thousands, of posts that will be heavily critical and mocking of the next record. THIS ALBUM DOES NOT EVEN EXIST YET, but I am foreseeing him plus friends, and thousands upon thousands of posts heaping scorn on an album that has no chance with them. So, we have a board and a future album discussion thread which I believe already heavily has it's cards stacked against it on this board which has such great potential. I would like some place to have a balanced discussion on the next album. I think this COULD be a great place to do it, but I'm afraid that may be hard given the circumstances state above. That's one reason why I'm here being a "jerk". That album has no chance here. This is genuinely disturbing, it sort of sends shivers down my arm cause it's just that weird. Now, I have no crystal ball and maybe I'll be surprised and it won't happen, but he's pretty much saying, "I'm over this band" (which I'm fine with) but "I'm sticking around" (which I'm not). Take this times several others people, and you've got one sullied, messed up board. This is what I'm railing against, with all due respect to Stip and the side of the board I really like.
Anyway, my opinions are my opinions, if my name becomes synonymous with being a petulant jerk, I'll be fine with that if it exposes some of the madness which I think happens right now and may continue to happen in the future.
Post subject: Re: 2012-09-30: U of M Adams Center: Misoula, MT
Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 2:43 pm
Coast to Coast
Joined: Sat Sep 22, 2007 6:21 am Posts: 23078 Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina Gender: Male
Tuolumne wrote:
If anyone says, "I love the Fixer, or Inside Job", the vultures come and drop about 100 posts of bird poop onto the discussion. This has happened to me.
Has it? I can't remember any instances of this, and a quick search of your posts about those songs doesn't really reflect that at all. Can you point out some specific examples?
Post subject: Re: 2012-09-30: U of M Adams Center: Misoula, MT
Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 2:52 pm
Banned from the Pit
Joined: Wed Mar 16, 2011 2:38 am Posts: 95
theplatypus wrote:
Tuolumne wrote:
If anyone says, "I love the Fixer, or Inside Job", the vultures come and drop about 100 posts of bird poop onto the discussion. This has happened to me.
Has it? I can't remember any instances of this, and a quick search of your posts about those songs doesn't really reflect that at all. Can you point out some specific examples?
I think you're being more than a little dramatic about this entire thing.
Tuolumne wrote:
That album has no chance here. This is genuinely disturbing
Yes... genuinely disturbing. That is exactly what that is.
Yeah, I had a different name (I had some sort of password issue or something), look up Pilate's Dog. I was also on the old PearlJamNetwork board going way back, I've been around here and not just making shit up.
Post subject: Re: 2012-09-30: U of M Adams Center: Misoula, MT
Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 3:13 pm
Coast to Coast
Joined: Sat Sep 22, 2007 6:21 am Posts: 23078 Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina Gender: Male
Tuolumne wrote:
theplatypus wrote:
Tuolumne wrote:
If anyone says, "I love the Fixer, or Inside Job", the vultures come and drop about 100 posts of bird poop onto the discussion. This has happened to me.
Has it? I can't remember any instances of this, and a quick search of your posts about those songs doesn't really reflect that at all. Can you point out some specific examples?
I think you're being more than a little dramatic about this entire thing.
Tuolumne wrote:
That album has no chance here. This is genuinely disturbing
Yes... genuinely disturbing. That is exactly what that is.
Yeah, I had a different name (I had some sort of password issue or something), look up Pilate's Dog. I was also on the old PearlJamNetwork board going way back, I've been around here and not just making shit up.
Fair enough-- however, if it did happen, I can't find it. All I can find are posts where you complain about other's opinions. In fact, this one post is highly indicative of what I perceive to be your posting style, calling RM posters "losers" and making fun of their post count as if that somehow matters: viewtopic.php?p=2796191&sid=89dfa5e6c3147463d9b7ff2697935dd5#p2796191
Here's another post where someone calmly says they'd prefer "Inside Job" if it was an instrumental, and, in your usual volatile style, you respond that they have a problem and they need to "just give up already": viewtopic.php?p=2779834&sid=89dfa5e6c3147463d9b7ff2697935dd5#p2779834
This is consistent with what I've seen in your posts as Tuolumne, that is, the complete inability to handle an opposing opinion without resorting to hyperbole or ad hominem. You claim to be fine with dissenting views, but I've seen no evidence of that. I see someone so insecure with their own opinion that they have to shout down those who criticize the band, or at least make it known that RM doesn't represent the entire fanbase (as if we don't know that already); treating these threads like virtual tug o' wars.
I see you envision yourself as a noble crusader of the cause, talking reason into these heretics. But you're tilting at windmills here. If you want to see an upswing in RM, I encourage you to focus more on discussion and debate, and less on complaining about what the more garrulous posters have to say. And maybe put given2trade on Ignore.
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I do wonder if they are trying to pare down the American fan base again, much like they did in 95, in order to get back to the type of band they think they should be.
The kind that plays for an Oracle convention? lol
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Post subject: Re: 2012-09-30: U of M Adams Center: Misoula, MT
Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 3:22 pm
Banned from the Pit
Joined: Wed Mar 16, 2011 2:38 am Posts: 95
theplatypus wrote:
Tuolumne wrote:
theplatypus wrote:
Tuolumne wrote:
If anyone says, "I love the Fixer, or Inside Job", the vultures come and drop about 100 posts of bird poop onto the discussion. This has happened to me.
Has it? I can't remember any instances of this, and a quick search of your posts about those songs doesn't really reflect that at all. Can you point out some specific examples?
I think you're being more than a little dramatic about this entire thing.
Tuolumne wrote:
That album has no chance here. This is genuinely disturbing
Yes... genuinely disturbing. That is exactly what that is.
Yeah, I had a different name (I had some sort of password issue or something), look up Pilate's Dog. I was also on the old PearlJamNetwork board going way back, I've been around here and not just making shit up.
Fair enough-- however, if it did happen, I can't find it. All I can find are posts where you complain about other's opinions. In fact, this one post is highly indicative of what I perceive to be your posting style, calling RM posters "losers" and making fun of their post count as if that somehow matters: viewtopic.php?p=2796191&sid=89dfa5e6c3147463d9b7ff2697935dd5#p2796191
Here's another post where someone calmly says they'd prefer "Inside Job" if it was an instrumental, and, in your usual volatile style, you respond that they have a problem and they need to "just give up already": viewtopic.php?p=2779834&sid=89dfa5e6c3147463d9b7ff2697935dd5#p2779834
This is consistent with what I've seen in your posts as Tuolumne, that is, the complete inability to handle an opposing opinion without resorting to hyperbole or ad hominem. You claim to be fine with dissenting views, but I've seen no evidence of that. I see someone so insecure with their own opinion that they have to shout down those who criticize the band, or at least make it known that RM doesn't represent the entire fanbase (as if we don't know that already); treating these threads like virtual tug o' wars.
I see you envision yourself as a noble crusader of the cause, talking reason into these heretics. But you're tilting at windmills here. If you want to see an upswing in RM, I encourage you to focus more on discussion and debate, and less on complaining about what the more garrulous posters have to say. And maybe put given2trade on Ignore.
Dude, you called me a petulant jerk, IN THIS THREAD. Do you work for Fox? You're bangin on about "discussion and debate" but being a hypocrite. But you don't understand this. So I am calling you out. So, this makes me "insecure" and having to "shout you down". So go ahead and mark this one under that column. Sometimes a punch is best answered with a punch, and this is one of them, because it is you who will never get it.
Post subject: Re: 2012-09-30: U of M Adams Center: Misoula, MT
Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 3:25 pm
Coast to Coast
Joined: Sat Sep 22, 2007 6:21 am Posts: 23078 Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina Gender: Male
Tuolumne wrote:
Dude, you called me a petulant jerk, IN THIS THREAD. Do you work for Fox? You're bangin on about "discussion and debate" but being a hypocrite. But you don't understand this. So I am calling you out. So, this makes me "insecure" and having to "shout you down". So go ahead and mark this one under that column. Sometimes a punch is best answered with a punch, and this is one of them, because it is you who will never get it.
I said yofismom wasn't a petulant jerk about their opinions-- so yes, indirectly, I called you a jerk. This is in response to your shtick of directly attacking the board every time you pop up and post. Nice going not addressing any of my points.
_________________ For more insulated and ill-informed opinions, click here.
I'm flattered that apparently I'm the voice of negativity on RM. If memory serves me correct, I almost never post in PJ chat. The vast majority of my posts the last year have been on business related issues like the fan club and Oracle, etc.
Also, If I hate Pearl Jam so much, why did I fly 3 hours to see a show? Would a troll do that just to be able to piss off a few people on a message board?
You need to get outside, bud. There is more to life than Pearl Jam. They don't need you to defend them. They are doing really well.
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