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PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 5:01 pm 
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LindsayPJ929 wrote:
Zman wrote:
why is it illegal to sell 2006 official bootlegs and not to sell the 2000 or 2003 official bootlegs?


Good question...


'00 & '03 official bootlegs = original silver cds .. legal for selling.
'06 official bootlegs = not silver cds .. illegal for selling.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 10:11 pm 
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what do silver CD's have to do with anything, if i purchased it, why cant i sell it?

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 10:38 pm 
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Zman wrote:
what do silver CD's have to do with anything, if i purchased it, why cant i sell it?


cause you're selling material that is not yours, it's Pearl Jam's. Now if you want to sell blank silver cd's, or silver cd's with you yourself singing Evenflow in the shower, go right ahead.

It's illegal.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 10:42 pm 
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NOTHINGFAN wrote:
Now if you want to sell blank silver cd's, or silver cd's with you yourself singing Evenflow in the shower, go right ahead.

:idea:
that's a good idea


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 11:25 pm 
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so thats not eddie singing on the 00 and the 03 silver CD's? .... sure sounds like it to me

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 11:38 pm 
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Zman wrote:
why is it illegal to sell 2006 official bootlegs and not to sell the 2000 or 2003 official bootlegs?


because the '00s and '03s are no longer being sold from 10club or PJ. the '05s and '06s are, therefore if you want them you buy FROM THE SOURCE. Not from scum bag re-sellers looking to make a profit forty times over for something purchased one time.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 11:40 pm 
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I bought the gold cds....theyre worth more than the silver ones


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 11:49 pm 
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so i cant even sell them for less than face? who made you the ebay god?

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 11:50 pm 
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buy the gold ones man they come w the lyrics and they double in value you just cant sell them


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 11:58 pm 
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Zman wrote:
so i cant even sell them for less than face? who made you the ebay god?


My question is....Why would you want to sell them?


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2006 12:02 am 
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Zman wrote:
so i cant even sell them for less than face? who made you the ebay god?


The Ten Club will shut your auction down very quickly if you try to sell them.

2000 and 2003 boots are allowed to be sold on ebay, because they are a released product, that you paid for, and it's your choice to sell them or not, even if they are on sale or not.

Just like your copy of Ten or Vitalogy or whatever, you are allowed to sell those on ebay if you wish.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2006 12:02 am 
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not to mention, selling cdr's on ebay is against EBAY'S policy! Let alone Pearl Jam's.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2006 12:04 am 
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nothing fan I love that ass


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2006 12:17 am 
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cheeto1973 wrote:
nothing fan I love that ass


most people do. :wink:

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2006 4:02 pm 
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now that ill agree with

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2006 5:34 pm 
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LindsayPJ929 wrote:
Zman wrote:
why is it illegal to sell 2006 official bootlegs and not to sell the 2000 or 2003 official bootlegs?


Good question...


I'm a little late to this game, but the reason that you can sell the physical CDs that you purchased (i.e. 2000 & 2003 Bootlegs) is that with intellectual property, the artist only controls the property up until the first sale. Once the artist has sold the property, without an explicit contract, he cannot control what the purchaser does with the object. So, once you purchase a book, CD, poster, etc. you can sell that physical object without any input from the creator.

With the 2005 & 2006 bootlegs, these are not physical objects. Therefore, the 'first sale' rights probably do not apply here. I guess, technically, if you could prove that you destroyed your copy of the files when you sold the CDs on Ebay, you would have an argument. That said, nobody that would try to sell the bootlegs that were downloaded would destroy his copy so that point is moot. Plus, if you agreed to any stipulations when you downloaded the files (I would guess that there was some type of agreement in place) you would be subject to those stipulations.

Bottom line: Without a contract to the contrary, once you buy a physical product, the original artist loses rights over the physical piece (but not the copyrighted material on them).

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2006 6:38 pm 
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cgreaten wrote:
LindsayPJ929 wrote:
Zman wrote:
why is it illegal to sell 2006 official bootlegs and not to sell the 2000 or 2003 official bootlegs?


Good question...


I'm a little late to this game, but the reason that you can sell the physical CDs that you purchased (i.e. 2000 & 2003 Bootlegs) is that with intellectual property, the artist only controls the property up until the first sale. Once the artist has sold the property, without an explicit contract, he cannot control what the purchaser does with the object. So, once you purchase a book, CD, poster, etc. you can sell that physical object without any input from the creator.

With the 2005 & 2006 bootlegs, these are not physical objects. Therefore, the 'first sale' rights probably do not apply here. I guess, technically, if you could prove that you destroyed your copy of the files when you sold the CDs on Ebay, you would have an argument. That said, nobody that would try to sell the bootlegs that were downloaded would destroy his copy so that point is moot. Plus, if you agreed to any stipulations when you downloaded the files (I would guess that there was some type of agreement in place) you would be subject to those stipulations.

Bottom line: Without a contract to the contrary, once you buy a physical product, the original artist loses rights over the physical piece (but not the copyrighted material on them).


Right, just like how it's not good to make copies of the 2000 and 2003 bootlegs and sell them. You can make a copy, sure, but if you wanted to sell that certain show, you would have to sell the silver pressed bootlegs, not the cdr's.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2006 9:57 pm 
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No Electronic Theft Law (NET Act) sets forth that sound recording infringements (including by digital means) can be criminally prosecuted even where no monetary profit or commercial gain is derived from the infringing activity. Punishment in such instances includes up to 3 years in prison and/or $250,000 fines. The NET Act also extends the criminal statute of limitations for copyright infringement from 3 to 5 years.

Additionally, the NET Act amended the definition of "commercial advantage or private financial gain" to include the receipt (or expectation of receipt) of anything of value, including receipt of other copyrighted works (as in MP3 trading). Punishment in such instances includes up to 5 years in prison and/or $250,000 fines. Individuals may also be civilly liable, regardless of whether the activity is for profit, for actual damages or lost profits, or for statutory damages up to $150,000 per work infringed.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2006 10:05 pm 
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A complete copy of the United States Copyright Law and further information regarding the copyright law may be obtained online or by writing: The Copyright Office, Library of Congress, Washington, DC 20559.

1. WHAT DOES "COPYRIGHT" MEAN?
Our nation's founding fathers determined that it was in the public interest that the creative works of a person's mind and spirit should belong, for a limited time, to the creator. The protection of these works is called "copyright." The United States Copyright Law grants the copyright owner exclusive rights to their creative work for a specific period of time or term. The term of copyright protection for works published prior to 1978 is 95 years from the date of publication. For works published after 1977 the term is equal to the length of the life of the author/creator plus 70 years. By law, the copyright owner is the only one who has the right to reproduce their work. If any other party wants to reproduce the material in any manner, permission must be obtained from the copyright owner. Copyrighted creative works such as musical compositions are often referred to as "intellectual property." That is exactly how they should be treated: as the property of the copyright owner.


2. WHAT ARE THE COPYRIGHT OWNER'S EXCLUSIVE RIGHTS?
To reproduce the copyrighted work in any form, including but not limited to: printed copies, digital files, recordings, tapes, CDs, videos, motion pictures, or any duplicating process which later comes into being.
To make arrangements and adaptations of the copyrighted work.
To distribute and/or sell printed or recorded copies of the work.
To synchronize the copyrighted work with visual images: video or film.
To perform the copyrighted work.
To display the copyrighted work.
To license others to do any of the above.

3. WHO OWNS AND CONTROLS THE LEGAL RIGHT TO MAKE COPIES?
The copyright owner. This may be the original creator (author or composer), a publisher, or an agent who has been assigned the right to license use of the work by the copyright owner.

4. HOW DO I FIND OUT WHO THE COPYRIGHT OWNER IS?
The copyright owner's name is listed in the copyright notice. Copyright notices should appear on all reproductions of copyrighted works. On printed music the notice is generally found on the bottom of the first page of music. On recordings the notice can usually be found on the packaging. The copyright notice will contain the word "copyright" or the symbol © (for printed material) or (p) (for sound recordings), followed by the year of first publication, and the name of the copyright owner.

5. MUST I GET PERMISSION TO...
Make photocopies of copyrighted music?
Print bulletins, songbooks or songsheets containing copyrighted works for use in church services, Bible studies, or home prayer groups as long as they are not sold?
Make a transparency, a slide or an electronic file of a copyrighted work for projection?
Make a photocopy of a copyrighted work for my accompanist in order to sing a solo?
Make audio recordings of worship services?
Make videos of worship services or special musical presentations, such as youth, children. s, and holiday presentations?
...YES,you must request permission secure licenses from the copyright owner prior to making any of the copies or duplications described above.

6. WHAT IF I AM FACED WITH A SPECIAL SITUATION?
If you want to include copyrighted lyrics in your bulletin . . . arrange a copyrighted song for four baritones and kazoo . . . or make any use of copyrighted music in any way, the magic word is . . . ASK. Copyright owners as a whole wish to see their music used by the widest possible audience. You may or may not receive permission, but when you use someone else's property you must have the property owner's consent.

7. WHAT IF THERE ISN'T ENOUGH TIME TO WRITE?
Call, many publishers routinely grant permissions over the phone, but try to plan ahead.


8. WHAT ABOUT EXISTING PHOTOCOPIES OR TAPES IN OUR CHURCH MUSIC LIBRARY?
To protect yourself and your organization you should destroy all unauthorized photocopies, tapes, etc., and replace them with legal editions. Possession of illegal copies puts you in a position of harboring stolen goods.

9. IS IT PERMISSIBLE TO PERFORM COPYRIGHTED RELIGIOUS WORKS IN CHURCH SERVICES WITHOUT FIRST OBTAINING PERMISSION FROM THE COPYRIGHT OWNER?
Yes, "the religious services exemption" in the Copyright Law permits for the performance of copyrighted religious works in the course of services at places of worship or at religious assemblies. However, performance licenses must be obtained from the copyright owner for any musical performance outside of a specific "worship service" including concerts and special musical programs.


10. CAN I MAKE AN ORIGINAL RECORDING OF A COPYRIGHTED SONG?
Yes, but you must contact the copyright owner and obtain a "mechanical license." You will be charged a fee, the amount of which is determined by the "statutory rate" as set forth in the Copyright Law. The current statutory rate, for the period of January 1, 2001 to December 31, 2001 is 7.55 cents per song, per recording. For the period of January 1, 2002 to December 31, 2003 it will be 8 cents, for the period of January 1, 2004 to December 31, 2005 it will be 8.5 cents, and for the period of January 1, 2006 to December 31, 2007 it will be 9.1 cents. This includes recordings of church services, concerts, musicals, or any programs that include copyrighted music.


11. CAN I MAKE A RECORDING USING A PRE-RECORDED INSTRUMENTAL ACCOMPANIMENT TRACK?
No, not without permission. Two separate licenses are necessary in this situation. The first is from the copyright owner of the work to be recorded, and the second is from the publisher of the accompaniment track. Many times these will be one and the same. Fees are usually required for each permission.


12. WHAT IF I CAN'T FIND THE OWNER OF A COPYRIGHTED SONG? CAN I GO AHEAD AND USE IT WITHOUT PERMISSION?
No. For assistance in locating copyright owners and publishers, contact CMPA and request the CMPA Copyright Holders & Publishers list.


13. IS THERE ONE SOURCE I CAN CONTACT TO OBTAIN PERMISSION TO USE MANY CONGREGATIONALLY SUNG COMPOSITIONS?
Yes, Christian Copyright Licensing, Inc. (CCLI) provides such a license. Contact CCLI at:

1-800-234-2446

6130 NE 78th Court
Suite C-11
Portland, OR 97218
The CMPA endorses CCLI and has cooperated in making this license available to churches.

IMPORTANT: The CCLI License does not grant the right to photocopy or duplicate any choral music (octavos), cantatas, musicals, handbell music, keyboard arrangements, vocal solos, or instrumental works.The CCLI license grants duplicating rights for congregational music only.


14. CAN I MAKE COPIES OF OUT-OF-PRINT ITEMS?
No, not without permission. Many publishers are agreeable, under special circumstances, to allow reprinting of out-of-print items, but again, permission must be secured from the copyright owner prior to any duplication.


15. WHAT IS PUBLIC DOMAIN?
Public domain simply means that the term of the copyright protection has expired and anyone is free to use those works in any way. The absence of a copyright notice is one indication that a song may be in the public domain.


16. WHAT IS FAIR USE?
Fair use is not generally applicable to churches. Fair use permits portions of copyrighted works to be legally reproduced for purposes of criticism, comment, news reporting, classroom teaching, scholarship, and research. Fair use does not apply to performance.


17. CAN I MAKE COPIES OF ACCOMPANIMENT RECORDINGS FOR MY CHOIR MEMBERS TO TAKE HOME AND REHEARSE WITH?
No. You must obtain permission from the copyright owner and the recording publisher (if they are not one and the same) to duplicate a recording for any purpose.


18. WHAT ARE THE PENALTIES FOR MAKING UNAUTHORIZED COPIES?
The law provides for the owner of a copyright to recover damages ranging from $500 to $100,000 per copyright infringed, and if willful infringement for commercial advantage and private financial gain is proved, criminal fines of up to $250,000 and/or five years. imprisonment, or both.


19. CAN I RECORD OUR CHURCH SERVICE FOR DISTRIBUTION TO CHURCH MEMBERS?
No, not without permission. However, the CCLI license covers the making of a limited number of recordings for shut-ins.


20. CAN I VIDEO OUR CHURCH SERVICES, MUSICALS AND CONCERTS?
No, not without permission. The videotaping or filming of a musical performance requires a "synchronization license" from the copyright owner.


21. WHAT ABOUT MIDI FILES, INTERACTIVE VIDEO, CD-ROMS, THE INTERNET, AND ALL THE NEW TECHNOLOGY USED BY CHURCHES TODAY?
Carefully read the labels and notices on all of these to see what you can and cannot do without permission from the copyright owner. When in doubt, ASK the copyright owner.

_________________
IX - X - XIII - XIV - XL - XLIII
ONE FOR EACH FINGER, THE THUMB AND START THE OTHER HAND!!

:wave:

Check us out - THE RODDIES

EllisEamos wrote:
they're fuckin' losers!!! they (patriots) deserved to be boo-ed!!!

:haha:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2006 10:42 pm 
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Wow! How far went this game :shock:

Don't sell the products that PJ don't allow, just it. is simple!!!!


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