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| The End of US Coal Power Plants? http://archive.theskyiscrape.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=97231 |
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| Author: | Green Habit [ Tue Mar 27, 2012 4:21 pm ] |
| Post subject: | The End of US Coal Power Plants? |
I don't agree with the means, but I sure as hell would agree with the ends. http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/ ... story.html EPA to impose first greenhouse gas limits on power plants By Juliet Eilperin, Published: March 26 The Environmental Protection Agency will issue the first limits on greenhouse gas emissions from new power plants as early as Tuesday, according to several people briefed on the proposal. The move could end the construction of conventional coal-fired facilities in the United States. The proposed rule — years in the making and approved by the White House after months of review — will require any new power plant to emit no more than 1,000 pounds of carbon dioxide per megawatt of electricity produced. The average U.S. natural gas plant, which emits 800 to 850 pounds of CO2 per megawatt, meets that standard; coal plants emit an average of 1,768 pounds of carbon dioxide per megawatt. These power plants help tell a complex story of what happens when regulations written in Washington ripple through the real economy. Some jobs are lost. Others are created. Costly controls Industry officials and environmentalists said in interviews that the rule, which comes on the heels of tough new requirements that the Obama administration imposed on mercury emissions and cross-state pollution from utilities within the past year, dooms any proposal to build a coal-fired plant that does not have costly carbon controls. “This standard effectively bans new coal plants,” said Joseph Stanko, who heads government relations at the law firm Hunton and Williams and represents several utility companies. “So I don’t see how that is an ‘all of the above’ energy policy.” The rule provides an exception for coal plants that are already permitted and beginning construction within a year. There are about 20 coal plants now pursuing permits; two of them are federally subsidized and would meet the new standard with advanced pollution controls. An administration official who asked not to be identified because the rule hasn’t been announced wrote in an e-mail Monday night: “This standard provides a clear and certain path forward for industry and the important domestic energy sources they rely on” for electricity generation. President Obama does not mention coal as a key component of the nation’s energy supply in speeches about his commitment to exploiting oil and gas reserves and renewable sources. The proposal does not cover existing plants, although utility companies have announced that they plan to shut down more than 300 boilers, representing more than 42 gigawatts of electricity generation — nearly 13 percent of the nation’s coal-fired electricity — rather than upgrade them with pollution-control technology. Michael Brune, executive director of the Sierra Club, said the new rule “captures the end of an era” during which coal provided most of the nation’s electricity. It currently generates about 40 percent of U.S. electricity. The power sector accounts for 40 percent of the nation’s greenhouse gas emissions, and Brune said it is “the only place where we’re making significant progress” in curbing greenhouse gas emissions linked to climate change, adding that “at the same time, it’s not sufficient.” Cheap natural gas is also contributing to the closure of aging coal-fired plants, as many utilities switch over to gas plants, which produce about half the carbon emissions. “Gas is contributing to the closure of these plants,” Dominion Resources chief executive Thomas F. Farrell II said in an interview last week. Farrell, who also chairs the Edison Electric Institute, the utility trade association, added: “It’s not all EPA. It’s a combination of low gas prices and EPA working at the same time.” National Mining Association spokesman Luke Popovich said the proposal shows that Obama is following through on his pledge to reduce greenhouse gas emissions through means other than legislation. Bypassing Congress “After Congress refused to pass carbon caps, the administration insisted there were other ways to skin the cat, and this is another way — by setting a standard deliberately calculated to drive affordable coal out of the electricity market,” Popovich said. Conrad Schneider, advocacy director for the Clean Air Task Force, said the proposed rule will ensure a cut in the nation’s carbon output even if gas prices spike. He cited four planned coal plants that would capture part of their carbon emissions and store them, largely by injecting them into depleted wells to enhance oil recovery. “We need regulatory signals and economic incentives” to make these projects economical, Schneider said. The proposal will provide some flexibility, allowing super-efficient coal plants an exemption for the first decade of operation before requiring them to reduce their carbon emissions by more than 50 percent. The EPA rule, called the New Source Performance Standard, will be subject to public comment for at least a month before being finalized, but its backers said they were confident that the White House will usher it into law before Obama’s term ends. “The Obama administration is committed to moving forward with this,” said Nathan Willcox, federal global warming program director for the advocacy group Environment America. “They’re committed to doing it this, and we’re committed to helping them do it.” |
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| Author: | Electromatic [ Tue Mar 27, 2012 4:49 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The End of US Coal Power Plants? |
wonder what this is going to do to the coal mining industry. Guess we'll be exporting to China. |
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| Author: | dkfan9 [ Tue Mar 27, 2012 5:48 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The End of US Coal Power Plants? |
Electromatic wrote: wonder what this is going to do to the coal mining industry. Guess we'll be exporting to China. balance of trade surplus mothafuckas |
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| Author: | Electromatic [ Tue Mar 27, 2012 6:45 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The End of US Coal Power Plants? |
dkfan9 wrote: Electromatic wrote: wonder what this is going to do to the coal mining industry. Guess we'll be exporting to China. balance of trade surplus mothafuckas  wonder if we can ship them counterfit coal too.
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| Author: | EllisEamos [ Tue Mar 27, 2012 10:09 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The End of US Coal Power Plants? |
Electromatic wrote: dkfan9 wrote: Electromatic wrote: wonder what this is going to do to the coal mining industry. Guess we'll be exporting to China. balance of trade surplus mothafuckas wonder if we can ship them counterfit coal too.we should ask them to manufacture that for us. |
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| Author: | broken iris [ Tue Mar 27, 2012 10:52 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The End of US Coal Power Plants? |
So.... have any billionaires lost money on investments in natural gas over the last year? You know, that Obama might be able to help with? |
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| Author: | LittleWing [ Tue Mar 27, 2012 11:34 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The End of US Coal Power Plants? |
Hopefully to be replaced by natural gas! |
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| Author: | Human Bass [ Tue Mar 27, 2012 11:41 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The End of US Coal Power Plants? |
Gen III+ nuclear plants FTW. Oh, nevermind, since a Gen II power plant that was hit by both an earthquake and tsunami had some problems. |
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| Author: | broken iris [ Wed Mar 28, 2012 1:04 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The End of US Coal Power Plants? |
Human Bass wrote: Gen III+ nuclear plants FTW. Oh, nevermind, since a Gen II power plant that was hit by both an earthquake and tsunami had some problems. First off, Japan is fucked up. RM favorite ZeroHedge had an update on the situation earlier today. Second off, Thorium FTW: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/comment/ambroseevans_pritchard/8393984/Safe-nuclear-does-exist-and-China-is-leading-the-way-with-thorium.html http://www.forbes.com/sites/williampentland/2011/09/11/is-thorium-the-biggest-energy-breakthrough-since-fire-possibly/ |
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| Author: | EllisEamos [ Wed Mar 28, 2012 1:22 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The End of US Coal Power Plants? |
speaking of japan, there's a ghost ship from the tsunami floating off canada!! it's like a nautical event horizon!!1!! |
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| Author: | bmacsmith [ Wed Mar 28, 2012 1:26 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The End of US Coal Power Plants? |
broken iris wrote: Human Bass wrote: Gen III+ nuclear plants FTW. Oh, nevermind, since a Gen II power plant that was hit by both an earthquake and tsunami had some problems. First off, Japan is fucked up. RM favorite ZeroHedge had an update on the situation earlier today. Second off, Thorium FTW: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/comment/ambroseevans_pritchard/8393984/Safe-nuclear-does-exist-and-China-is-leading-the-way-with-thorium.html http://www.forbes.com/sites/williampentland/2011/09/11/is-thorium-the-biggest-energy-breakthrough-since-fire-possibly/ Finally, the time has come for Earth's true masters, Australia, to take their rightful place. |
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| Author: | Human Bass [ Wed Mar 28, 2012 2:29 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The End of US Coal Power Plants? |
I know about thorium (Gen IV) reactors. But Gen III+ are already so fucking good and readily avaible. |
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| Author: | broken iris [ Wed Mar 28, 2012 10:48 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The End of US Coal Power Plants? |
Human Bass wrote: I know about thorium (Gen IV) reactors. But Gen III+ are already so fucking good and readily available. They still have Fukushima-type risks. The US has enough Thorium to end dependency on foreign oil (hopefully reducing the desire to nation build). Australia has enough to supply itself and China. India has enough to where it won't need to import energy from Iran and can lift 600million of it's citizens from poverty. It's a great big circle jerk of win. It's tragic that individuals who are very knowledge about climate change and environmental science tend to turn a blind eye to Thorium, which buys us a few centuries of energy independence to develop non-rare earth metal driven solar energy and the battery tech to support it. |
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| Author: | Green Habit [ Wed Mar 28, 2012 12:57 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The End of US Coal Power Plants? |
broken iris wrote: It's tragic that individuals who are very knowledge about climate change and environmental science tend to turn a blind eye to Thorium, which buys us a few centuries of energy independence to develop non-rare earth metal driven solar energy and the battery tech to support it. I completely agree with you, and it always drives me nuts, as well. Life is full of tradeoffs, and I've never been convinced that the rare disasters like Fukushima outweigh the slow but steady damage that coal continues to ravage.
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| Author: | Electromatic [ Wed Mar 28, 2012 2:39 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The End of US Coal Power Plants? |
The public is so clueless about the causes and effects of engineering disasters. They just know they are afraid of nuclear. Fukushima was a cavalcade of stupid decisions for many years in a row all coming to a head. Environmentalists seem to be anti everything when it comes to producing energy. Every potential soution is shot down. The only thing that appears acceptable is to sue society back to hunting and gathering. |
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