Post subject: Re: Should the U.S. Lower the Drinking Age?
Posted: Sat Aug 25, 2007 1:04 am
Leak Inspector
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 5:25 pm Posts: 35180 Location: Brasil Gender: Male
dirtyfrank0705 wrote:
psychobain wrote:
dirtyfrank0705 wrote:
There has to be some kind of compromise. What if 18-20 year olds were only allowed to drink beer or wine, but not hard liquor until they turn 21? They're still alcoholic beverages, but aren't nearly as strong as your average 80 proof bottle of rum or vodka. There'll still be underage kids drinking hard liquor illegally, but if they feel like they are adult enough to buy beer, perhaps this would deter them from drinking the heavy stuff.
is there any difference if the guy drinks 15 beers?
I'm no scientist, but 15 beers is probably much better than 15 shots.
i know, but that wasnt my point you talked about not allowing hard liquor but i was pointing to you that drinking too much beer or wine , itll get you drunk in the same level as others drinks (not talking about quantity) and it wont be good to your body
_________________ need you, dream you, find you, taste you, fuck you, use you, scar you, break you, lose me, hate me, smash me, erase me, kill me....
Post subject: Re: Should the U.S. Lower the Drinking Age?
Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2007 1:53 am
too drunk to moderate properly
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 7:19 pm Posts: 39068 Location: Chapel Hill, NC, USA Gender: Male
Quote:
Author: Letting kids drink early reduces binging
ATLANTA, Georgia (CNN) -- Over dinner recently, Anna Peele recalls one of the first times she drank alcohol. "I was like 14 or 15," Peele says. "I ordered a beer and they served me."
She had just finished her freshman year of high school and was traveling in Greece with family friends. "We would just have wine with dinner," Peele says. "In Greece it's so not a big deal."
Anna Peele's parents allowed her to drink at family functions and social events when she was in high school.
While that experience would cause some American parents to worry, Peele's parents weren't upset.
In fact, starting in middle school, her parents allowed her and her siblings to have an occasional sip of beer or wine. By the time she was in high school, Peele was drinking beer and wine regularly at family functions and social events. But it was always in moderation, Peele says. She says her parents' attitude toward alcohol made it seem less mysterious. "It wasn't some forbidden fruit," Peele says. "I didn't have to go out to a field with my friends and have 18 beers."
Experts say binge drinking continues to be a growing problem across the country. According to a recent report from the U.S. surgeon general, there are nearly 11 million underage drinkers in the United States. Nearly 7.2 million are considered binge drinkers, meaning they drank more than five drinks in one sitting.
In this age of "just say no," some people believe it is time for Americans to reconsider how they teach kids about alcohol. Peele's father is at the top of the list.
"We taught them to drink in a civilized fashion, like a civilized human being," says Stanton Peele, psychologist and author of "Addiction-Proof Your Child."
He says many of the programs set up to stop alcohol abuse contribute to the teen binge-drinking crisis. Any program that tells kids flatly not to drink creates temptation, he says. "Preparing your child to drink at home lessens the likelihood that they are going to binge drink," he says. "Not sharing alcohol with your child is a risk factor for binge drinking."
Peele says other cultures have figured it out. He points to Italy, Greece and Israel, where children are given small amounts of wine at religious celebrations or watered-down alcohol on special occasions.
But many other experts say the psychologist is off base. "That's ridiculous," says Calvina Fay, executive director of the Drug Free America Foundation. "By allowing teens to drink," Fay says, "you are giving permission to your children to do harmful things."
"When I went to medical school," Moritsugu says, "the science at that time told us that our brains had finished developing at 2 or 2 and a half. Over the past few decades ... science shows our brains continue to develop well into our mid-20s".
Fay also says Stanton Peele doesn't take into account other consequences of teen drinking, such as unsafe sex and drunken driving. "You don't have to be addicted to be harmed or die because of drugs and alcohol."
But the psychologist contends that kids are going to drink no matter what and that it is critical for parents to set the example. "I think the key to preventing all kinds of addiction is to make sure that your child values life, values himself and has purpose in life," he says. "That's the single most important thing."
Now 19, Anna Peele is a sophomore at New York University. She wants to be an actress. She does drink with her friends, but she says that it's always in moderation and that she is well aware of her responsibilities. "Your parents expect you to do your work and get the most out of your education. ... They're not paying for us to drink."
_________________ "Though some may think there should be a separation between art/music and politics, it should be reinforced that art can be a form of nonviolent protest." - e.v.
Post subject: Re: Should the U.S. Lower the Drinking Age?
Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 4:19 am
Former PJ Drummer
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 4:01 am Posts: 19477 Location: Brooklyn NY
my kids will definitely be allowed to drink in moderation at home after they turn 16, it's a good way to teach some responsibility
_________________
LittleWing sometime in July 2007 wrote:
Unfortunately, it's so elementary, and the big time investors behind the drive in the stock market aren't so stupid. This isn't the false economy of 2000.
Uh, a DUI conviction doesn't mean shit. Two on the other hand, and you're fucked. But half the people I know have plead guilty to DUIs. You sit in jail for a few hours (if even that), pay a huge fine, lose your license for a few months, and go to low-level alcohol counseling with 200 other people, then it's over. Just saying, there's no reason to increase or decrease the penalty. They could probably increase it, most states already have in the last 10 years.
I'm pretty sure a DUI makes traveling outside of the country a lot tricker.
_________________ I am a Child, I'll last a while. You can't conceive of the pleasure in my smile.
Post subject: Re: Should the U.S. Lower the Drinking Age?
Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 5:58 am
Former PJ Drummer
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 4:01 am Posts: 19477 Location: Brooklyn NY
sherpahigh wrote:
glorified_version wrote:
Uh, a DUI conviction doesn't mean shit. Two on the other hand, and you're fucked. But half the people I know have plead guilty to DUIs. You sit in jail for a few hours (if even that), pay a huge fine, lose your license for a few months, and go to low-level alcohol counseling with 200 other people, then it's over. Just saying, there's no reason to increase or decrease the penalty. They could probably increase it, most states already have in the last 10 years.
I'm pretty sure a DUI makes traveling outside of the country a lot tricker.
How so
_________________
LittleWing sometime in July 2007 wrote:
Unfortunately, it's so elementary, and the big time investors behind the drive in the stock market aren't so stupid. This isn't the false economy of 2000.
Uh, a DUI conviction doesn't mean shit. Two on the other hand, and you're fucked. But half the people I know have plead guilty to DUIs. You sit in jail for a few hours (if even that), pay a huge fine, lose your license for a few months, and go to low-level alcohol counseling with 200 other people, then it's over. Just saying, there's no reason to increase or decrease the penalty. They could probably increase it, most states already have in the last 10 years.
I'm pretty sure a DUI makes traveling outside of the country a lot tricker.
How so
I've heard of people being turned away at the Canada/US border, both Canadians trying to get into the US and the other way around. A quick search will get you a lot of examples.
Quote:
DUIs and Travel to Canada Inadmissible Entry into Canada The Canadian Government has determined certain individuals are inadmissible to Canada. These individuals are not allowed to enter Canada or remain inside the Canadian borders. Members of Inadmissible Classes include those who have been convicted of certain criminal offenses. Some minor offenses include, but are not limited to:
* Shoplifting * Theft * Assault * Unauthorized possession of a firearm * Possession of illegal substances
Those with felony convictions are not permitted entry into Canada either. The Canadian Government views driving under the influence of intoxicants as an extremely serious offense. Those convicted of DUI or DWI are included in the Inadmissible Class. Those convicted of DUI or DWI will not be permitted to enter Canada.
A state lawmaker wants to give members of the armed forces younger than 21 the right to buy alcohol even though it's in stark contrast to the military's efforts to diminish underage drinking and related accidents.
"I really don't think it should create a problem for the military. It might even enhance their morale," Rep. Fletcher Smith said Wednesday.
State law prohibits the sale or possession of alcohol by anyone under 21. In 1984, South Carolina raised the drinking age to 21 from 18 to comply with federal law.
Smith, a private attorney, acknowledged South Carolina would risk losing several hundred million dollars in federal highway money if the legislation he introduced is approved, but he insisted the change is necessary.
"It's absurd that people serving in the military are trained to kill on the battlefield but at the same time couldn't come back home and have a beer," the Greenville Democrat said. "If you're old enough to get training in the U.S. military, you should be old enough to get a beer. That training really matures a person."
Rep. Grady Brown, who served in the South Carolina Air National Guard, said he would support the bill.
"If a man is old enough to defend his country and die for his country," he shouldn't be told he's too young for a beer, said Brown, D-Bishopville.
There's a different attitude on many military bases attempting to battle drinking by younger men and women, in part to reduce drunken driving and other alcohol-related problems.
At nearby Fort Jackson, recruits may join the Army at age 17 with parental approval. However, no one in basic training may drink, regardless of their age, said base spokeswoman Karen Soule.
Air Force Tech. Sgt. Kevin Williams said Shaw Air Force Base in Sumter has a "zero tolerance" policy for underage drinkers.
Overall, he's seen "a real shift in attitude — an effort to de-glamorize drinking" since he first joined the military at age 20.
"It used to be you'd see four kegs at a picnic. Now, it's all about drinking responsibly," said Williams, 36.
Safety advocates, including Mothers Against Drunk Driving, think Smith's bill is a bad idea.
"MADD supports our military and supports living life to the fullest," Juliet Smith, a spokeswoman for the state chapter, told The (Columbia) State for a story published Wednesday. "Let's not create additional dangerous risks. Let's protect our youth and our roadways."
Chuck Hurley, chief executive officer of MADD's national office, told the newspaper that similar bills have been introduced in a handful of states, including Kentucky, Nebraska and Vermont.
"These bills are going up against a mountain of data and have very little public support," Hurley said. "We would be very surprised if these get serious consideration."
Like many before her and many since, Sgt. Theresa Seng wondered why she was old enough to serve her country in Iraq as a 20-year-old Marine but not legally able to drink alcohol.
Seng, now 26, said she supports a controversial bill by state Rep. Fletcher Smith to lower the drinking age for military personnel to 18.
"I thought it was ludicrous that at 20 I had to come to terms with the fact that I could die tomorrow but not have a beer or a glass of wine," Seng said, adding that like most things in the military, drinking responsibly is a matter of discipline.
Smith, a Greenville Democrat, said he's heard from hundreds of supporters across the country since his legislation was thrust into the national spotlight. Many South Carolina lawmakers say they support the bill in concept, but they are worried about the nearly $30 million in federal highway funds that would be jeopardized if the state alters its drinking age.
Smith said he is researching the possibility of federal exceptions that would protect the highway money while continuing to fight for the bill.
"They're trained with millions of dollars of equipment; their adulthood is accelerated," Smith said. "If we can trust them with Humvees and driving over IEDs and all sorts of things, we can trust them with a beer."
The Army and Navy allow soldiers and sailors to follow local drinking laws wherever they are stationed, although drinking is never encouraged and some policies, such as the Army's in Iraq and Afghanistan, prohibit drinking regardless of age. The Marine Corps and the Air Force make no exceptions to the minimum U.S. drinking age.
The bill would allow military members with a valid military ID to be served alcohol in South Carolina.
Gov. Mark Sanford sees an important states' rights principle in the debate.
"There are responsible and irresponsible people at all ages," Sanford press secretary Joel Sawyer said. "To us, the bill highlights the problem of Congress using federal dollars to blackmail states into adopting policies."
At risk is 10 percent of the annual federal highway funds the state receives, which is expected to be about $300 million this year.
The governor supports Smith's bill and would fight for the state to keep its highway money if the bill becomes law, Sawyer said.
Senate Transportation Committee Chairman Larry Grooms, R-Bonneau, said the bill is worth researching, but he acknowledged that losing millions of highway dollars would be detrimental.
Rep. Jim Harrison, chairman of the House Judiciary Committee, which would need to approve the bill before it goes to the floor for a vote, said he doesn't think Smith will be able to find federal exceptions. But, Harrison said, even if the highway money weren't a problem, he would hesitate to support the bill.
"I spent 30 years in the military — just because you're old enough to fight, and you're highly trained and under close supervision, drinking is something totally different," said Harrison, R-Columbia. "Is it the right thing to do? That's a very high hurdle to get over, too."
"My sensibilities tell me they ought to be able to drink a beer if they can go to war," said Rep. Leon Stavrinakis, D-Charleston. "But I think you've got to think about the best interest of the state as a whole. Unfortunately, it is not a stand-alone issue."
The bill was discussed briefly Thursday in a House subcommittee but debate was adjourned until Tuesday when military personnel are expected to testify.
_________________ No matter how dark the storm gets overhead They say someone's watching from the calm at the edge What about us when we're down here in it? We gotta watch our backs
Post subject: Re: Should the U.S. Lower the Drinking Age?
Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 5:57 pm
Former PJ Drummer
Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2004 5:51 am Posts: 17078 Location: TX
To me, the drinking age of 21 in the military is kind of like "All people are created equally and have the right to life and liberty, except for black people who we keep as slaves". There is simply no justification of this that can stand the test of time. It is not right, it is not fair, and it isn't just, PERIOD, no matter how it might make sense in some ways. Just like the civil rights and womens rights movements, this is the kind of thing that will inevitably changed because it just isn't right.
Fuck what the military says. You have to understand they don't give a shit about the people in it, once you are in the military they aren't thinking "This guy is willing to die for his country, let's treat him well". I don't think it is really possible for people to understand how much of a different world it is when your commanders don't care about anything except making their bosses happy, and you are bound to obey orders no matter what, it is nothing like the civilian world - nothing.
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