http://www.pipa.org/OnlineReports/Pres_ ... _21_04.pdf

In this new report, the vast differences in the perceptions of Bush supporters and Kerry supporters regarding the war in Iraq are highlighted. Even if you don't read the whole report, which is not all that long, at least skim through and look at the graphs, it is quite amazing.

Here are a few highlights:

Q: Do most experts agree that before the war Iraq possessed WMD?

A-Bush: Yes-56%, No-23%, Divided-18%
A-Kerry: Yes-18%, No-56%, Divided-23%
FACT: Most experts say NO.

Q: The Duelfer Report Concluded...

A-Bush: Iraq had WMD-19%, Iraq had a major WMD program-38%
A-Kerry: Iraq had WMD-7%, Iraq had a major WMD program-16%
FACT: The Duelfer Report concluded Iraq had NEITHER.

Q: What was Iraq's relationship with al Qaeda?

A-Bush: Directly involved in 9/11-20%, Gave al Qaeda substantial support-56%
A-Kerry: Directly involved in 9/11-8%, Gave al Qaeda substantial support-22%
FACT: All evidence has shown that Iraq had NO direct involvement with 9/11 and Iraq did not give al Qaeda substantial support.

Q: Is the Bush administration SAYING that Iraq POSSESSED WMD before the war?

A-Bush: Yes (polled 8/04)-58%, Yes (polled 10/04)-63%
A-Kerry: Yes (polled 8/04)-63%, Yes (polled 10/04)-73%

Q: Is the Bush administration SAYING that they have found evidence that Iraq worked closely with al Qaeda?

A-Bush: Yes-55%
A-Kerry: Yes-52%
FACT: No evidence has been found.

Q: If BEFORE THE WAR, US intelligence had concluded that there were no WMD and no substantial link with al Qaeda, should we have gone to war?

A-Bush: No-58%
A-Kerry: No-92%

Q: Should we STILL have gone to war for other reasons?

A-Bush: Yes-37%
A-Kerry: Yes-6%

Q: Regarding World Opinion on our decision to go to war in Iraq, do you think that...

A-Bush: Majority Favors-26%, Evenly Divided-42%, Majority Opposes-31%
A-Kerry: Majority Favors-5%, Evenly Divided-20%, Majority Opposes-74%
FACT: VAST MAJORITY OPPOSES.

And then there is a fascinating chart showing the percentages of Bush and Kerry supporters who CORRECTLY perceive their candidate's positions on several key policy issues (several of which the candidates do share). What is really appalling about this information is how many of Bush's supporters either believe the opposite of what his position is, or simply don't know.

I think that most people in this forum are pretty well versed in the facts, regardless of which candidate they support, but only about 10% of the members of this board ever even post in this forum, and I think that Pearl Jam tends to attract pretty intelligent and activist fans. The numbers of uninformed, under informed, misinformed, and just plain stupid people out there, whose votes count just the same as yours, is absolutely appalling. I try as hard as I can to believe in the American people, really I do, but studies like this, which always seem to come to approximately the same conclusions, as well as the conversations I have with people on a daily basis, really undermine that faith.

The American people will get the government they deserve, unfortunately I won't.

--PunkDavid

This does not surprise me at all. While I have seen a few republicans here express their support for Bush while knowing the facts, it's always seemed obvious to me that most Bush supporters do not have any idea of what is really happening. I think it's pretty shameful and wonder what republicans think of their own party when they read reports like this. How can you be proud of a mass of people who at best are ignorant?

I know you said "republicans", and I assume you mean the one's who DO KNOW the facts, but they probably DON'T read reports like this.

And I don't think that the top Republican strategists are proud of their mass of supporters. I don't think they give a shit about them or what they think as long as they vote republican. In fact I would say that if a top republican strategist read this report, he'd say, "Mission Accomplished."

--PunkDavid

If John Kerry weren't such a horrible candidate, he (or another Dem nominee) would be beating Bush in a landslide

Just because people believe what they believe does NOT make them ignorant. That's is your opinion and that is just like saying I believe you're ignorant for living in Norway. (Of course I don't feel this way).

Sure, some masses of people are ignorant, but this point could be argued either way, depending on your point of view.

Actually, I think that it's the definition of ignorance to believe something that is factually UNTRUE.

--PunkDavid

And what makes it UNTRUE? Your opinion?????

Exactly. To believe the world is flat, even if you believe it with all your heart, is still being thoroughly ignorant.

"Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but not their own facts."

That quote sums it up. Facts cannot be disputed. The fact is Iraq never helped al-qaeda. The fact is Iraq has no WMD's. The fact is the Iraq War was sold to the American public with excuses and rationalization using fear. The facts are what they are, the way those facts are spun, which is what Rove does, is how you get all the misinformed people. Like Jon Stewart asked "Why does a toothpaste commerical have to have more truth in it then a campaign ad?"

Like the 50-60% of people who thought Iraq was behind 9/11. That's just a blatant fabrication, but why do so many American belive that to be the truth?

please tell me you're joking...

wow, it's amazing how people continue to function in this world

October 21, 2004

PIPA is a joint program of the Center on Policy Attitudes (COPA) and the Center for International and Security Studies at Maryland (CISSM), School of Public Affairs, University of Maryland.

Bush Supporters: Still Believe Iraq Had WMD or Major Program,
Supported al Qaeda

Agree with Kerry Supporters Bush Administration Still Saying This is the Case

Agree US Should Not Have Gone to War if No WMD or Support for al Qaeda

Bush Supporters Misperceive World Public as Not Opposed to Iraq War,
Favoring Bush Reelection

Even after the final report of Charles Duelfer to Congress saying that Iraq did not have a significant WMD program, 72% of Bush supporters continue to believe that Iraq had actual WMD (47%) or a major program for developing them (25%). Fifty-six percent assume that most experts believe Iraq had actual WMD and 57% also assume, incorrectly, that Duelfer concluded Iraq had at least a major WMD program. Kerry supporters hold opposite beliefs on all these points.

Similarly, 75% of Bush supporters continue to believe that Iraq was providing substantial support to al Qaeda, and 63% believe that clear evidence of this support has been found. Sixty percent of Bush supporters assume that this is also the conclusion of most experts, and 55% assume, incorrectly, that this was the conclusion of the 9/11 Commission. Here again, large majorities of Kerry supporters have exactly opposite perceptions.

These are some of the findings of a new study of the differing perceptions of Bush and Kerry supporters, conducted by the Program on International Policy Attitudes and Knowledge Networks, based on polls conducted in September and October.

Steven Kull, director of PIPA, comments, "One of the reasons that Bush supporters have these beliefs is that they perceive the Bush administration confirming them. Interestingly, this is one point on which Bush and Kerry supporters agree." Eighty-two percent of Bush supporters perceive the Bush administration as saying that Iraq had WMD (63%) or that Iraq had a major WMD program (19%). Likewise, 75% say that the Bush administration is saying Iraq was providing substantial support to al Qaeda. Equally large majorities of Kerry supporters hear the Bush administration expressing these views--73% say the Bush administration is saying Iraq had WMD (11% a major program) and 74% that Iraq was substantially supporting al Qaeda.

Steven Kull adds, "Another reason that Bush supporters may hold to these beliefs is that they have not accepted the idea that it does not matter whether Iraq had WMD or supported al Qaeda. Here too they are in agreement with Kerry supporters." Asked whether the US should have gone to war with Iraq if US intelligence had concluded that Iraq was not making WMD or providing support to al Qaeda, 58% of Bush supporters said the US should not have, and 61% assume that in this case the President would not have. Kull continues, "To support the president and to accept that he took the US to war based on mistaken assumptions likely creates substantial cognitive dissonance, and leads Bush supporters to suppress awareness of unsettling information about prewar Iraq."

This tendency of Bush supporters to ignore dissonant information extends to other realms as well. Despite an abundance of evidence--including polls conducted by Gallup International in 38 countries, and more recently by a consortium of leading newspapers in 10 major countries--only 31% of Bush supporters recognize that the majority of people in the world oppose the US having gone to war with Iraq. Forty-two percent assume that views are evenly divided, and 26% assume that the majority approves. Among Kerry supporters, 74% assume that the majority of the world is opposed.

Similarly, 57% of Bush supporters assume that the majority of people in the world would favor Bush's reelection; 33% assumed that views are evenly divided and only 9% assumed that Kerry would be preferred. A recent poll by GlobeScan and PIPA of 35 of the major countries around the world found that in 30, a majority or plurality favored Kerry, while in just 3 Bush was favored. On average, Kerry was preferred more than two to one.

Bush supporters also have numerous misperceptions about Bush's international policy positions. Majorities incorrectly assume that Bush supports multilateral approaches to various international issues--the Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty (69%), the treaty banning land mines (72%)--and for addressing the problem of global warming: 51% incorrectly assume he favors US participation in the Kyoto treaty. After he denounced the International Criminal Court in the debates, the perception that he favored it dropped from 66%, but still 53% continue to believe that he favors it. An overwhelming 74% incorrectly assumes that he favors including labor and environmental standards in trade agreements. In all these cases, majorities of Bush supporters favor the positions they impute to Bush. Kerry supporters are much more accurate in their perceptions of his positions on these issues.

"The roots of the Bush supporters' resistance to information," according to Steven Kull, "very likely lie in the traumatic experience of 9/11 and equally in the near pitch-perfect leadership that President Bush showed in its immediate wake. This appears to have created a powerful bond between Bush and his supporters--and an idealized image of the President that makes it difficult for his supporters to imagine that he could have made incorrect judgments before the war, that world public opinion could be critical of his policies or that the President could hold foreign policy positions that are at odds with his supporters."

The polls were conducted October 12-18 and September 3-7 and 8-12 with samples of 968, 798 and 959 respondents, respectively. Margins of error were 3.2 to 4% in the first and third surveys and 3.5% on September 3-7. The poll was fielded by Knowledge Networks using its nationwide panel, which is randomly selected from the entire adult population and subsequently provided internet access. Funding for this research was provided by the Rockefeller Brothers Fund.

Bush supporters:

– 75% believe Iraq was providing substantial support to al Qaeda.

– 74% believe Bush favors including labor and environmental standards in agreements on trade.

– 72% believe Iraq had WMD or a program to develop them.

– 72% believe Bush supports the treaty banning landmines.

– 69% believe Bush supports the Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty.

– 61% believe if Bush knew there were no WMD he would not have gone to war.

– 60% believe most experts believe Iraq was providing substantial support to al Qaeda. (An additional 19% think Iraq was directly involved in 9/11. Gallup had 62% on this question.)

– 58% believe the Duelfer report concluded that Iraq had either WMD or a major program to develop them.

– 57% believe that the majority of people in the world would prefer to see Bush reelected.

– 56% believe most experts think Iraq had WMD.

– 55% believe the 9/11 report concluded Iraq was providing substantial support to al Qaeda.

– 51% believe Bush supports the Kyoto treaty.

Should these people choose your president?

Thanks for the post PD.

I did not comment on the OPINION parts of the survey (should we have gone to war, etc...). But where there are known and accepted facts, that the people have a misperception of, I noted it.

I wonder, did you guys even read my SUMMARY of the report, I know you didn't read the report as a whole.

--PunkDavid

Elitists.

This is not an issue of 'point of view'. Iraq did not help mastermind 9/11. Iraq did not lend support to Al Qaeda. Iraq did not have weapons of mass destruction. These statements have been corroborated by informed democrats and republicans alike... YET, most Bush supporters say otherwise, as if they have done more research than the 9/11 commission.

If you truly believe there is a Santa Claus long after you have been told by everyone that there is no such thing, and after you have learned that the North Pole is a frozen ocean, then you are an ignorant fool. You are incapable of making sound decisions. Unfortunately, this is how I perceive much of this nation's voting public right about now.

Many conservatives don't know shit about the issues and only vote because they were raised to. Case in point: my mom, who is diabetic, and thought Bush was on the side of stem cell research until I told her he wasn't.

The points made in this thread make me SAD

Unfortunately, what I have found to be the reason for most of the lack of knowledge in these situations is.....Apathy. While I know many people who are actively involved and knowledgeable about the events happening in the world today, there are many more who just don't give a damn. If it doesn't have anything to do with their day to day life, they can't be bothered or just aren't interested. They won't be either, until it hits their own doorstep. They don't read books and newspapers or watch any news programs, much less the debates. They certainally aren't out there trying to find any information on their own. They say " It's boring, it's depressing or it doesn't matter anyway."

It's appalling that most of these people will vote based on what they see in a 30 second commercial. But it's true. Quite obviously, the political parties are aware of this. Doesn't matter whether what you say is true or not, the vast majority will take it at face value and never question it.

Call it sad or appalling, but these people, unfortunately seem to be the majority of the population and until that changes, we will be stuck with what we get.

This is exactly how the majority in my area feel.

Look at that first question alone. If these were the direct questions asked, only an idiot would say Iraq did not posess WMD's before the war. The question itself is loaded. Everyone with a brain knows that Iraq had WMD's sometime before the war. Probably about 99% of experts agree with that. Now if they asked a real question like, " Do you believe Iraq had WMD's when we invaded, or do you believe that Iraq had WMD's sometime withen a year of the invasion," it would hold some sort of merit. Plus seeing a poll that answers it's own poll questions as if they were "factual" is about the worst type of journalism I've ever seen.

Oh so the first question is all that needs to be looked at to tell a lack of obvious stupidity on the part of a majority of Bush supporters.

........righhhhhtttt......