why do people have such problems with others using faith to help them get by?

christ, im sounding like jared now, aint i?

I don't have a problem with it myself, I think it's needed and if it works for people, more power to them for "getting by".

I do, however have a problem with the way organized religion and the faith it proclaims parades its arrogance by stating unequivocally "this" idea, this "belief" is it. It's the only way to look at life and death and therefore anyone who doesn't believe as "this" religion is going to hell etc.

Faith is a wonderful thing when used properly, as a device for propelling people through difficult situations and helping people become stronger individuals.

It's a piece of poop when it's used to exclude and judge people because they are not like you.

It is easy to have faith in a God that decides if you go to heaven or hell, the real challenge is to have faith on people

I don't care what people believe, but I have problems with 2 things ...

1) When they try to tell me that I'm wrong or how I should behave/think.

2) When their believes cause an ignorant world view and makes them think they need to start altering the society that I was previously living happily in.

Everything just_b said and a spiritual crutch used to justify, rationalize, and attempt to understand this complicated ever changing world we are in.

my feelings exactly.

Well said, I echo that sentiment.

There is a definate difference between organized religion and having (a) faith. One can have a strong belief system and plenty of faith to go around without necessarily subscribing to any one organized religion.

c-

I've never heard anybody with a level head get upset at someone who claims faith helps them "get by".

I've often heard people get upset at someone who uses faith as a rationalization or justification for things greater than themselves or their own personal struggles. Because then the idea becomes that OTHER people are implicated. And other people may just think that person is completely full of shit.

A couple of questions, not directed at just you:

1) What are your feelings on people who do subscribe to an organized religion, but do consider that their organized religion? In other words, those who did not just blindly accept what their parents taught them, but believe they had some sort of conversion to that religion?

2) Is there a problem with people sharing their beliefs without being forceful about it? Is it alright for people to share their beliefs if they are not putting their foot in the proverbial door? If so, what is the line? Passing out flyers on the street? Knocking on doors?

Just wondering what people think about it...

just for the record btw...


i wouldnt say i am by any means a man of faith, i understand why people have it and i have no problem with their beliefs. like most, i dont want it shoved in my face either. i do believe in a higher being and a lower being, but not in the same ways as the bible or any other holy scripture (that i know of) states

I agree with most of what you just said. I have several friends who are very faithful people, and they're very healthy about it. I don't agree with everything they say and believe, but I know it helps them, so I accept it. And they don't treat my views any lesser than their own. That is something I wish more people would do.

However, one thing that disappoints me about some people with strong faith is that I think they sell themselves short way too often. When something fortunate happens or they accomplish something significant, they'll thank god for bringing the good fortune upon them. They may acknowledge that they worked hard to accomplish it, but they'll ultimately feel that it was god's will for it to turn out this way. But in my opinion, good things come to people who put themselves in a position for good things to happen, however that may be. These good things have nothing to do with god, but everything to do with the person putting themselves in a advantageous position.

Agreed.

I don't have any problems with this at all. It's my general belief that organized religion lead to groupthink and drag people off into the wrong direction, but this is by no means a rule without exception. And even if it's true, what do I care if someone's off in the wrong directions as long as they don't mess up my life.



This is entirely possible. I think the problem lies in the fact that 98% of human beings don't have a clue how to communicate with each other, and most churches that encourage members to discuss their faith do very little to train those members in effective communication techniques.

Growing up, I learned quickly to hide things from family and church, so the lesson I was picking up was definitely not one of honest communication. That was probably true of all the other kids at my church. It wasn't until I was through college that I learned to stop faking shit and just say things how they our. Until church members get honest with themselves and others, there will be very little quality faith sharing.

And the soul-saving ratio for door-to-door campaigns has got to be in the toilet. C'mon!

I was going to write a long post about why I have a problem with faith in general, but as I was writing, I realized that I had said nearly everything I wanted to say a couple months ago in this thread http://www.theskyiscrape.com/phpBB2/viewt ... 5&start=34

So I won't quote myself in a new thread, but that pretty much sums up my feelings on the matter until I get that fired up about it again and get inspired to rip some more.

--PunkDavid

I don't have problems with it it. Some people believe. Some people believe they'll have a beer. Hey, in moderation, whatever floats your boat.

The only time I have a problem with faith is when Mormons or Jehovah's Witnesses disturb me. No more so than door to door salesmen and telemarketers who keep ringing even after I've told them to take my number off their list.

Oh, one other instance. This concerns those fundie aid workers who tie their services to their users converting to the religion. For goodness sakes, you're taking part in an aid program. It's all about selflessness, helping those in need simply because they need it, and not about self-interest. I'm sure your god would appreciate your kind efforts even if you don't convert those poor folks.

oh and for the record, i didnt technically start this thread. its an offshoot of another thread that the mods felt could warrant its own thread...you fucking heathens

Quite astute! (I think that's the right word, dictionary.com is down)

I used to have a problem with it, I don't anymore as I do now myself so. Maybe you have to learn from actually being on the other side of the spectrum.

1. Nothing wrong with that, as long as they are happy, live and let live; just don't try to shove that religion down my throat as something I should subscribe or covert to because it's not only not going to happen but I will have less respect for the individual. I can respect someone elses decision in this area as far as what works for them, but I don't respect when people get pushy and try to sell what works for them to me.

2. No, I have no problem with people sharing their beliefs, we do it all the time here and everywhere else in life. I personally draw a line at door-to-door stuff and standing out in front of concerts with a sign calling the people entering the event fornicators, etc. I don't feel that organized religion or any given "faith" needs to "sell itself" like magazines or girl scout cookies. My personal faith is stronger than that, and I don't like being solicitate ever for any reason regardless of how noble or how good anothers intention.

Those are my thoughts.

c-