After all the squabbling is said and done, has participating in N&D changed you at all? Have you learned here? What have you learned?



My story...or part of it...

When the 2000 elections were in full swing, I was a petition wielding supporter of the Green Party and Ralph Nader. I was an advocate of socialism in the US with tinges of communism. Incredibly idealistic. I talked of moving to some other country, Sweden, Canada...somewhere..anywhere that was more liberal than the US. I voted for every Green candidate available, and straight Democrat for everything else.

As the 2004 elections rolled in, I was a staunch Libertarian. I voted for Republican candidates for the first time in my life, for major offices. I voted against tax raises for education. I voted against any and all taxes raises for that matter. The only Dems that got my support were John Kerry, my Washington St. Representative and a few environmental posts in the state.

I can think of 2 conversations that greatly influenced my thinking pattern. One was with a friend, Bruce, who I would spend hours debating local and national politics with. I can't quite remember all of what we talked about, but after this one evening I had a major paradigm shift.
The other was a debate involving the dearly missed Quadrophenia here in N&D. He made a short, concise post about personal freedoms when I was arguing for more social services or something of that nature. That was an introduction to a new wave of thought, the previous conversation was the shove into the brink.


Before posting often in N&D I was a fierce, fierce supporter of abortion. At this point, I'm not so sure. Stonecrest is responsible for this. He greatly affected my view on the topic.


So those are a few things...
How has N&D affected you? Can you say you've changed? After all our posturing, we have to allow ourselves to listen to the other side and be open the the idea that we just might possibly, just MIGHT have a chance to be swayed.
I don't often come here just to read myself type, I truly come here for the opinions and ideals of others. If I disagree with them, it's a perfect opportunity to defend my position to myself, not to them. Quite frankly, I wish we had more people posting here. I wish people weren't so intimidated to come in and speak their mind.
Anyhoo, time to visit the Official Goodnight Thread.

I think it has changed me a bit. Not so much here, but over at Synergy where I spent the last several years. Some people make great points about things you have no idea about, so to disprove them, you do a bit of research. And afterwards, it comes to you that they were at least partially right, or at the very least you had no fucking idea what you were talking about.

But in other areas, it goes the complete opposite direction. Such as abortion. I used to be pro choice, and the more I talke to people on these boards I become pro life. Seems strange that people I did agree with convinced me to disagree with them while agreeing with me.

What is great about debating with you people, is it causes me to think about my opinions on things. It is very easy to have an opinion, and much more difficult to defend it. When someone forces U2 it makes you look at the issue from a different light, and therefore defend your beliefs on it. Afterwards, you may change or stay the same, but at least we are forced to consider the arguement . It works out in the long run.

Change?

Don't know, but I definitely wouldn't still be around if we didn't create N&D.

not even for me?

i've learned more from the conservative bastards here than i have from the libs to be quite honest... dont know if ive changed a whole lot... i just kind of came to the realization that both sides can argue any point made and that both sides are also just as full of shit as the other... it's almost made me numb to politics in a way

(and sorry if you dont like the terms conservatives/libs, but if the shoe fits...)

I've particularly valued the discussions about economic issues, a subject that I purposefully avoided in my studies but now wish I knew more about. There are several people on this board who are very knowledgable about the subject, and not all lunatics like PJDoll.

I've changed a few times when I see someone whom I agree with 90% of the time strongly oppose my views on a particular subject and I feel forced to do more research and better inform myself.

I also should mention publicly, and I've said this to a couple people privately, that several of my favorite people on this board are people who I disagree with often in our political conclusions, but whom I can always count on having an intelligent exchange of ideas. This recognition and respect has led me to tailor my arguments to be acceptable to the broadest group of people possible, without compromising my feelings and beliefs, of course. I've found that I can't take people seriously, even when I agree with their conclusions, if they can't present an argument in a dignified manner that has the potential to sway another's opinion.

I can't say it's drastically changed my opinions as it has you, Eric, but it has challenged them and/or made them stronger.

Not much. Hell, I don't even know what I'm talking about half the time, which I'm sure is evident in my posts. For a long time I was scared to even post in here, because most of the regulars are extremely smart people, and have spent time really digging in deep into many of these topics. Where as I tend most of the time to speak from an emotional level that doesn't always lead to the most solid argument for one's case.

Maybe you're just not working hard enough at it.

I don't know that I've changed any core beliefs, but it does a person good to be proven wrong by someone I don't consider an idiot. I remember that Colorado professor who called the 9/11 victims little Eichmanns. I dismissed that as insane and refused to read anything else he's written or said. But, turns out this guy was a brilliant professor who has been on the forefront of progressive thought for some time. Turns out, I think that guy earned the my attention. I still don't agree with him, but I regret refusing to hear the argument b/c he's a great speaker.

Also, when I was a counselor, everything is about controlling the conversation, descalation, and letting people have their say w/o judging or getting emotional. N&D has taught me that I'm really bad at that. I've really let some discussions explode on me. Anytime now, I might start trying to fix that and practice good debating skills.

ahhhhhhhhhhh change....sometimes...I mostly read...I rarely post....I definetely change if I find myself wrong. Now I tend to be a bit radical with my opinions and beliefs but I believe that both sides can be right on things...such as abortion, godamnit, if you have the heart to do it, and you have ample reason for it(such as no money at all) then you know..i gotta say let em do it...its fucked up id never have the heart to do it but some do and forcing morals is so fucked up I want to puke, so I wont ever say someone isnt allowed to do something because I dont believe in it, fuck that, which reminds me of dubya. Which also reminds me of the fact that I support him SIMPLY because of his foreign affairs(which isnt saying much seeing as im not of age to vote GRR) other than that lets get his ass out of there. But thats why I come to forums....to perfect my opinions and beliefs..and to talk about pearl jam

I'm not so sure I've changed much by posting here. Not that I post that often to begin with...I usually just read along to the post and consider the conflicting opinions (I'm a much more graceful person-to-person debater, message boards usually just frustrate me). But N&D has helped that instead of hearing about something that upsets me and brooding about it, it's an avenue to vent my frustrations. I'm desperately short on friends/colleagues who are interested in debating most of the topics that I'm passionate about.

And in cases when I don't have anything to say on a topic, I enjoy reading other people's opinions and learning. I've discovered that I have many more opinions now than I had before I came to this board, mostly because we discuss such a broad array of topics. And it helps that there are some pretty smart people who hang out here.

Honestly, I get so disgusted most of the time I start reading about the way things are, it's easier to just say "Fuck it." I mean, why bother raising my blood pressure over this shit? Nothing's ever going to change. The whole system is fucked to the point where it needs such massive overhaul in so many areas that it seems pretty hopeless, especially with the kind of "leaders," Democrat and Republican, that we elect. As with most of the people in this country, priorities are just way out of wack.

"I'm desperately short on friends/colleagues who are interested in debating most of the topics that I'm passionate about"

ditto...not many 16 year olds quite as keyed in on politics and shit as I am....dont judge me...

lighten up francis

i say keep it up... i agree

what i would have given to have you as a student in my class the last 4 years when i was teaching high school

Actually of all people Towelie has influenced me. He made mention of aluminum or some metal in deoderant causes Alzheimers. I switched all my bathroom stuff to organic and I'll never switch back. After reading the labels on the deoderant, soap, and shampoo I found they were all made from some form of sulfur. YUCK! Now I prefer Witch Hazel to sulfur.

Thanks Towelie.


Edit: I really meant to say "of all topics" and not people.

I'll kill you