Board index » Word on the Street... » News & Debate




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 19 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Still dont think kerry will use fear tactics?
PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2004 6:37 am 
Offline
User avatar
In a van down by the river
 Profile

Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 6:15 am
Posts: 33031
http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/10/15/kerry.friday.ap/index.html
MILWAUKEE (AP) -- There is a "great potential of a draft" to replenish U.S. forces in Iraq if President Bush wins a second term, Democratic challenger John Kerry said in an Iowa newspaper interview published Friday.

Bush said during the second presidential debate that there would be no revival of the military draft under any circumstances if he is re-elected. "We're not going to have a draft, period," the president said.

However, Kerry told The Des Moines Register, "With George Bush, the plan for Iraq is more of the same and the great potential of a draft." Kerry gave the interview Thursday evening before a late-night rally and before leaving to campaign in Wisconsin on Friday.

Bush did not directly respond to Kerry's comment. But he said in Cedar, Rapids, Iowa, that he was "modernizing and transforming our United States military to keep the all-volunteer army an all-volunteer army."

Bush campaign manager Ken Mehlman said "the fact that Senator Kerry continues to bring up what he knows to be false undermines his credibility with voters."

Kerry shifted to pocketbook issues in Milwaukee, telling hundreds of voters that the president's record on jobs and taxes helped special interests, not their interests.

"Right now, we've got an economy where people feel like they're on a treadmill, running faster and faster with each passing year, but they're not getting ahead. They're staying in place, and a whole bunch of folks are even falling behind," Kerry said.

"The bottom line is this: This economy has a bad case of the flu and we need a new medicine," Kerry said.

Kerry portrayed the president as insensitive with the everyday challenges facing families.

"The president has proven beyond a doubt he's out of touch with the average American family, he's out of ideas, and he's unwilling to change course. So, we have to change course for him," Kerry said.

Bush has defended his economic record, saying that repeated tax cuts energized growth and helped create 1.78 million jobs after the economy sustained terrorist attacks, a sustained stock market slide and a recession.

Bush-Cheney spokesman Steve Schmidt said Kerry had a record of voting for higher taxes. "John Kerry has spent 20 years in the Senate out of touch with American families, and today he is running away from that record because he knows he can't sell it to the American people," Schmidt said.

Wisconsin's unemployment rate runs below the national average, and the state's voters haven't seen the severe job losses afflicting other Midwestern battlegrounds.

Kerry, Edwards and their wives were briefed for more than an hour Thursday night on the campaign's "unprecedented" plan for voter turnout and fighting voter suppression, said campaign adviser Mike McCurry. McCurry said Kerry requested the briefing, which campaign manager Mary Beth Cahill led in a Des Moines hotel room after the two couples held a rally at the Iowa State Fairgrounds.

McCurry would not give any details of the briefing but said the campaign is very concerned about allegations of voter suppression.


Top
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2004 6:43 am 
Offline
User avatar
Unthought Known
 Profile

Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2004 11:26 pm
Posts: 7392
Location: 2000 Light Years From Home
Isn't a draft a possibility? What if North Korea decides to aim nuclear missles at us? How are we going to defend ourselves with our troops stretched thin?

_________________
You didn't see me here: 10.14.00, 10.15.00, 4.5.03, 6.9.03, 9.28.04, 9.29.04, 9.15.05, 5.12.06, 5.25.06, 6.27.08, 5.15.10, 5.17.10, 9.3.11, 9.4.11

yieldgirl wrote:
I look a like slut trying to have my boobs all sticking out and shit


Top
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2004 7:01 am 
Offline
User avatar
The Man, The Myth
 WWW  Profile

Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 12:12 am
Posts: 1080
Location: boulder
Almost like Bush's claim that Kerry will raise taxes for everyone if he becomes president.

_________________
"my fading voice sings, of love..."


Top
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2004 7:04 am 
Offline
User avatar
Johnny Guitar
 Profile

Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 12:05 am
Posts: 153
Location: Pasadena
didn't Bush do this to Kerry already too?


Top
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2004 7:15 am 
Offline
User avatar
Got Some
 Profile

Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 3:58 am
Posts: 2105
Location: Austin
StyrofoamChicken wrote:
Isn't a draft a possibility? What if North Korea decides to aim nuclear missles at us? How are we going to defend ourselves with our troops stretched thin?


A draft is always possible, but it isn't a partisan issue unless one side is pushing it. World War 3 could break out tomorrow, and Left or Right, a draft would be neccasary. The Republicans are not pushing it at all, and with the exception of a couple of nut balls, the liberals are not either. Plus if North Korea aims nuclear missles at us, we are not going to send troops in there, the country will probably just cease to exist the next day.

Someone else used Bush claiming Kerry's tax increases as a fear tactic. I don't think minor tax increases by Kerry really cause fear in anyone, at least not nearly to the level of the draft. Plus Kerry is actually pushing for tax increases(at least to those making over 200K), unlike Bush who has never pushed the draft in the slightest bit. Now there are definite examples of right wing fear tactics that you could use, but that was a terrible example.


Top
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2004 7:48 am 
Offline
User avatar
The Man, The Myth
 WWW  Profile

Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 12:12 am
Posts: 1080
Location: boulder
C4Lukin wrote:
Someone else used Bush claiming Kerry's tax increases as a fear tactic. I don't think minor tax increases by Kerry really cause fear in anyone, at least not nearly to the level of the draft. Plus Kerry is actually pushing for tax increases(at least to those making over 200K), unlike Bush who has never pushed the draft in the slightest bit. Now there are definite examples of right wing fear tactics that you could use, but that was a terrible example.


The economy consistently rates as the number 1 or 2 issue for voters in every election. And, as mind boggling as it is to me, taxes are a huge part of that to most people. Raising taxes doesn't instill fear in the sense of being scared, but it certainly alarms people that they may have to give up more money. Taxes are always a big deal. I assure you that eyebrows are raised everytime Bush mentions that Kerry is going to have to raise taxes for all.

_________________
"my fading voice sings, of love..."


Top
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2004 7:59 am 
Offline
User avatar
Got Some
 Profile

Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 3:58 am
Posts: 2105
Location: Austin
stonecrest wrote:
C4Lukin wrote:
Someone else used Bush claiming Kerry's tax increases as a fear tactic. I don't think minor tax increases by Kerry really cause fear in anyone, at least not nearly to the level of the draft. Plus Kerry is actually pushing for tax increases(at least to those making over 200K), unlike Bush who has never pushed the draft in the slightest bit. Now there are definite examples of right wing fear tactics that you could use, but that was a terrible example.


The economy consistently rates as the number 1 or 2 issue for voters in every election. And, as mind boggling as it is to me, taxes are a huge part of that to most people. Raising taxes doesn't instill fear in the sense of being scared, but it certainly alarms people that they may have to give up more money. Taxes are always a big deal. I assure you that eyebrows are raised everytime Bush mentions that Kerry is going to have to raise taxes for all.


I agree that it is a voting issue, but Bush hasn't used it as a fear tactic as far as I know. He only stated that Kerry is planning on raising taxes, which is true in that Kerry plans to tax families or persons who make over 200k a year. That is a lot different from trying to convince people that the republicans are going to try and reeinstate the draft, which is a much scarier idea, when they have made it pretty clear that it has no place in their agenda. The Republicans know that a draft would mean losing control of the senate, the house, and the presidency 4 years from now. It simply will not happen unless something several times as horrible as 9/11 occurs. A fear tactic is different then a simply policy issue. The possibility that your kids will be forced into war without volunteering is a fear tactic, very different from something like your Dr. friend who constitutes the top 1% is going to be giving a few thousand more a year to the government in the taxes. I don't think that even scares the top 1%, much less the rest of us.


Top
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2004 8:13 am 
Offline
User avatar
The Man, The Myth
 WWW  Profile

Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 12:12 am
Posts: 1080
Location: boulder
C4Lukin wrote:
I agree that it is a voting issue, but Bush hasn't used it as a fear tactic as far as I know. He only stated that Kerry is planning on raising taxes, which is true in that Kerry plans to tax families or persons who make over 200k a year.


Well, let me be the first to tell you that he has used it as a fear tactic many times. Did you not watch the debates? Bush mentioned many times that Kerry's plans are so expensive that he's going to have to raise taxes for everyone because of the gap between how much his plans cost and how much money would be raised if he just repealed the tax cuts for the wealthy.

For example, from the third debate:

Quote:
BUSH: Well, his rhetoric doesn't match his record.

He been a senator for 20 years. He voted to increase taxes 98 times. When they tried to reduce taxes, he voted against that 127 times. He talks about being a fiscal conservative, or fiscally sound, but he voted over -- he voted 277 times to waive the budget caps, which would have cost the taxpayers $4. 2 trillion.

...

He's proposed $2. 2 trillion of new spending, and yet the so-called tax on the rich, which is also a tax on many small-business owners in America, raises $600 million by our account -- billion, $800 billion by his account.

There is a tax gap. And guess who usually ends up filling the tax gap? The middle class.


If that's not a fear tactic, I don't know what is.

_________________
"my fading voice sings, of love..."


Top
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2004 9:12 am 
Offline
User avatar
Got Some
 Profile

Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 3:58 am
Posts: 2105
Location: Austin
stonecrest wrote:
C4Lukin wrote:
I agree that it is a voting issue, but Bush hasn't used it as a fear tactic as far as I know. He only stated that Kerry is planning on raising taxes, which is true in that Kerry plans to tax families or persons who make over 200k a year.


Well, let me be the first to tell you that he has used it as a fear tactic many times. Did you not watch the debates? Bush mentioned many times that Kerry's plans are so expensive that he's going to have to raise taxes for everyone because of the gap between how much his plans cost and how much money would be raised if he just repealed the tax cuts for the wealthy.

For example, from the third debate:

Quote:
BUSH: Well, his rhetoric doesn't match his record.

He been a senator for 20 years. He voted to increase taxes 98 times. When they tried to reduce taxes, he voted against that 127 times. He talks about being a fiscal conservative, or fiscally sound, but he voted over -- he voted 277 times to waive the budget caps, which would have cost the taxpayers $4. 2 trillion.

...

He's proposed $2. 2 trillion of new spending, and yet the so-called tax on the rich, which is also a tax on many small-business owners in America, raises $600 million by our account -- billion, $800 billion by his account.

There is a tax gap. And guess who usually ends up filling the tax gap? The middle class.


If that's not a fear tactic, I don't know what is.


I guess you could consider it a fear tactic. It isn't on the level of the ice caps are going to melt and drowned us all, or your kids will be drafted into a pointless war, but it is a fear tactic. I personally think it has merit though, and that is different from what Kerry is saying.

Kerry wants to increase the size of our military by almost 20%, guarantee health insurance to all children, and over 98% of the public, modernize the military, cut taxes to businesses that do not export jobs, invest in new fuel and renewable energy sources, increase security forces at our boarders, airports, and shipping grounds, establish a national education trust fund, increasing trainging and pay for teachers, increase after school programs by 3.5 million students, make college education affordable to all, restoring the 45% of waterways in the US that are not drinkable.

All of this came from his own website, and I didn't even get into his dozens of other plans that didn't make it to the homepage. What I have to ask is how could he possibly do this? Near Universal Health Care, which is essentially what he is asking for, would be the equivalent of expenditures of the Iraq war ever single year until it stopped. Adding two divisions to the military, increasing our current military technology, and doubling the size of our special forces, I dont have a cost estimate on that but I'm guessing it is pretty high.

And look at the rest of it, he has a whole subsection on his website of other programs he plans to create, that I didn't go into.. Most of these ideas are pretty good ideas I admit, with some exceptions, but to fund them you need to cut programs. He cannot cut the military programs in order to increase our military. What is he going to cut to fund paying teachers more? Where is he going to get the money to make college education affordable to all, or the money to clean up half the waterways in the US? Where will he get the funding to invest in renewable energy? And don't tell me by cutting subsidies to corporations, because that is such a small part of government spending that you could never fund his health care plan alone, much less the rest of it all. Taxation is the only way to do it. This is not a fear tactic, it is a common sense arguement to what Kerry is proposing. Oh yeah and he is going to do all of this and balance the budget.


Top
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2004 1:03 pm 
Offline
User avatar
In a van down by the river
 Profile

Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 6:15 am
Posts: 33031
obviously people are missing the point.


everyone says bush is using a terror attack on "kerrys watch" as a reason to not vote for him, but when kerry uses fear tactics such as this, he gets a free pass


Top
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2004 3:56 pm 
Offline
User avatar
Of Counsel
 Profile

Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 1:14 am
Posts: 37778
Location: OmaGOD!!!
Gender: Male
Peeps wrote:
obviously people are missing the point.


everyone says bush is using a terror attack on "kerrys watch" as a reason to not vote for him, but when kerry uses fear tactics such as this, he gets a free pass


The point is obvious. I think it is wrong for Kerry to use this particular issue, because it is PURELY a scare tactic. It's not a lie, because as noted above, who knows what will happen six months from now, but I think it is equally likely that Kerry would reinstate a draft in order to increase the size of the military as he has claimed he will do in campaign speeches.

When Bush says Kerry will raise taxes on everybody, it is much closer to a lie than this.

--PunkDavid

_________________
Unfortunately, at the Dawning of the Age of Aquarius, the Flower Children jerked off and went back to sleep.


Top
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2004 4:00 pm 
Offline
User avatar
Unthought Known
 Profile

Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 12:16 pm
Posts: 8820
punkdavid wrote:
Peeps wrote:
obviously people are missing the point.


everyone says bush is using a terror attack on "kerrys watch" as a reason to not vote for him, but when kerry uses fear tactics such as this, he gets a free pass


The point is obvious. I think it is wrong for Kerry to use this particular issue, because it is PURELY a scare tactic. It's not a lie, because as noted above, who knows what will happen six months from now, but I think it is equally likely that Kerry would reinstate a draft in order to increase the size of the military as he has claimed he will do in campaign speeches.

When Bush says Kerry will raise taxes on everybody, it is much closer to a lie than this.

--PunkDavid


Not really - as I posted on the old RM, Kerry cannot pay for his plan(s) by only eliminating the tax cut for those making over $200k a year. He will either raise taxes on the middle class or he will increase deficit spending by amounts Bush could only dream about.

_________________
http://www.farmsanctuary.org

"Think occasionally of the suffering of which you spare yourself the sight" - Albert Schweitzer


Top
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2004 4:39 pm 
Offline
User avatar
Got Some
 Profile

Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 3:47 pm
Posts: 2932
PJDoll wrote:
punkdavid wrote:
Peeps wrote:
obviously people are missing the point.


everyone says bush is using a terror attack on "kerrys watch" as a reason to not vote for him, but when kerry uses fear tactics such as this, he gets a free pass


The point is obvious. I think it is wrong for Kerry to use this particular issue, because it is PURELY a scare tactic. It's not a lie, because as noted above, who knows what will happen six months from now, but I think it is equally likely that Kerry would reinstate a draft in order to increase the size of the military as he has claimed he will do in campaign speeches.

When Bush says Kerry will raise taxes on everybody, it is much closer to a lie than this.

--PunkDavid


Not really - as I posted on the old RM, Kerry cannot pay for his plan(s) by only eliminating the tax cut for those making over $200k a year. He will either raise taxes on the middle class or he will increase deficit spending by amounts Bush could only dream about.


As discussed before, Kerry won't get anything through the republican congress, gridlock=decreased spending.

Of course, you can still fault Kerry for his never ending promises.

_________________
For your sake
I hope heaven and hell
are really there
but I wouldn't hold my breath


Top
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2004 4:48 pm 
Offline
User avatar
Got Some
 Profile

Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 4:08 pm
Posts: 1018
Location: Oshkosh, WI
There will never be another draft. Regardless of who is President. Period.

_________________
Been to: 07/09/95...09/22/96...06/26/98...06/27/98...06/29/98...10/08/00...10/09/00...06/21/03...06/30/06


Top
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2004 4:49 pm 
Offline
User avatar
The Man, The Myth
 WWW  Profile

Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 12:12 am
Posts: 1080
Location: boulder
PJDoll wrote:
Not really - as I posted on the old RM, Kerry cannot pay for his plan(s) by only eliminating the tax cut for those making over $200k a year. He will either raise taxes on the middle class or he will increase deficit spending by amounts Bush could only dream about.


Well if PJDoll said it, it must be true. I mean, it's not like Kerry has advisors and experts that have looked into the numbers to make sure they work.

Frankly, I trust Kerry a lot more with economics than I do Bush.

_________________
"my fading voice sings, of love..."


Top
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2004 6:39 pm 
Offline
Force of Nature
 Profile

Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 1:52 am
Posts: 980
Location: Near Philly
That's not saying a whole lot


Top
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2004 6:59 pm 
Offline
User avatar
Black Metal Hero
 Profile

Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2004 11:04 pm
Posts: 39920
Gender: Male
I'd still vote Kerry.


Top
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2004 8:25 pm 
Offline
User avatar
Unthought Known
 Profile

Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 12:16 pm
Posts: 8820
stonecrest wrote:
PJDoll wrote:
Not really - as I posted on the old RM, Kerry cannot pay for his plan(s) by only eliminating the tax cut for those making over $200k a year. He will either raise taxes on the middle class or he will increase deficit spending by amounts Bush could only dream about.


Well if PJDoll said it, it must be true. I mean, it's not like Kerry has advisors and experts that have looked into the numbers to make sure they work.

Frankly, I trust Kerry a lot more with economics than I do Bush.



Funny, when asked directly about this, Kerry dodged the question. It doesn't really have anything to do with who said it, but thanks for the comments.

_________________
http://www.farmsanctuary.org

"Think occasionally of the suffering of which you spare yourself the sight" - Albert Schweitzer


Top
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2004 10:37 pm 
Offline
User avatar
Former PJ Drummer
 Profile

Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 4:01 am
Posts: 19477
Location: Brooklyn NY
Republicans

Anti-war protestors: scary
Foreigners: scary, particularly Germans and French
Blacks and Homosexuals: scary (unless they are republican)
Drug addicts, drug users, anybody who has experimented with drugs: scary
atheists: very scary
pro-choice women: scary
socialists: scary
northeastern liberals: scary
hippies: scary
environmentalists: somewhat scary
hollywood: scary
media: scary
immigrants: somewhat scary
people in favor of regulating gun laws: somewhat scary
Jews: somewhat scary, mainly because they are liberal
terrorists, middle easterners: very scary

Democrats

Republicans: scary

_________________
LittleWing sometime in July 2007 wrote:
Unfortunately, it's so elementary, and the big time investors behind the drive in the stock market aren't so stupid. This isn't the false economy of 2000.


Top
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 19 posts ] 

Board index » Word on the Street... » News & Debate


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 15 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
It is currently Thu Mar 28, 2024 11:37 am