_________________ "If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them" -Karl Popper
Post subject: Re: As an Englishman I'd just like to say sorry
Posted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 9:26 pm
Menace to Dogciety
Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2004 11:54 pm Posts: 12287 Location: Manguetown Gender: Male
This is clearly a natural rights vs utilitarianism debate.
It's a shame that the UK, land of so many outstanding liberal philosophers, is down on this road. Even more bizarre that a totally scientific debate needs ended up in the courts.
_________________ There's just no mercy in your eyes There ain't no time to set things right And I'm afraid I've lost the fight I'm just a painful reminder Another day you leave behind
Post subject: Re: As an Englishman I'd just like to say sorry
Posted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 10:24 pm
Menace to Dogciety
Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2004 11:54 pm Posts: 12287 Location: Manguetown Gender: Male
dkfan9 wrote:
Human Bass wrote:
This is clearly a natural rights vs utilitarianism debate.
No it's not.
Is freedom of speech a natural, moral right or something that its ok only sometimes?
_________________ There's just no mercy in your eyes There ain't no time to set things right And I'm afraid I've lost the fight I'm just a painful reminder Another day you leave behind
Post subject: Re: As an Englishman I'd just like to say sorry
Posted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 10:27 pm
Reissued
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 3:38 pm Posts: 20059 Gender: Male
Human Bass wrote:
dkfan9 wrote:
Human Bass wrote:
This is clearly a natural rights vs utilitarianism debate.
No it's not.
Is freedom of speech a natural, moral right or something that its ok only sometimes?
Maximal progress and happiness long term is derived from allowing free speech. Utilitarian argument right there. Also, the right of each citizen to free speech and their security in knowing they can say what they believe, when not inciting violence, without fearing government retribution, that increases overall societal happiness.
_________________ stop light plays its part, so I would say you've got a part
Post subject: Re: As an Englishman I'd just like to say sorry
Posted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 10:49 pm
Menace to Dogciety
Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2004 11:54 pm Posts: 12287 Location: Manguetown Gender: Male
dkfan9 wrote:
Human Bass wrote:
dkfan9 wrote:
Human Bass wrote:
This is clearly a natural rights vs utilitarianism debate.
No it's not.
Is freedom of speech a natural, moral right or something that its ok only sometimes?
Maximal progress and happiness long term is derived from allowing free speech. Utilitarian argument right there. Also, the right of each citizen to free speech and their security in knowing they can say what they believe, when not inciting violence, without fearing government retribution, that increases overall societal happiness.
Heh, for every person that uses utilitarianism thinking in the long term, there is 20 thinking in the short term whose main concern is "to not hurt feelings", like the guy did by saying that the treatment was dubious.
_________________ There's just no mercy in your eyes There ain't no time to set things right And I'm afraid I've lost the fight I'm just a painful reminder Another day you leave behind
Post subject: Re: As an Englishman I'd just like to say sorry
Posted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 11:00 pm
Reissued
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 3:38 pm Posts: 20059 Gender: Male
Human Bass wrote:
dkfan9 wrote:
Human Bass wrote:
dkfan9 wrote:
Human Bass wrote:
This is clearly a natural rights vs utilitarianism debate.
No it's not.
Is freedom of speech a natural, moral right or something that its ok only sometimes?
Maximal progress and happiness long term is derived from allowing free speech. Utilitarian argument right there. Also, the right of each citizen to free speech and their security in knowing they can say what they believe, when not inciting violence, without fearing government retribution, that increases overall societal happiness.
Heh, for every person that uses utilitarianism thinking in the long term, there is 20 thinking in the short term whose main concern is "to not hurt feelings", like the guy did by saying that the treatment was dubious.
but even that would not fulfill utilitarian principles in the short term.
_________________ stop light plays its part, so I would say you've got a part
Post subject: Re: As an Englishman I'd just like to say sorry
Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 8:22 pm
Interweb Celebrity
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 12:47 am Posts: 46000 Location: Reasonville
I feel like I would love this thread but I can't seem to get into it.
_________________ No matter how dark the storm gets overhead They say someone's watching from the calm at the edge What about us when we're down here in it? We gotta watch our backs
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