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 Post subject: Real divide is only in elitist minds
PostPosted: Fri Oct 29, 2004 8:19 pm 
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Real divide is only in elitist minds
- Victor Davis Hanson
Wednesday, October 27, 2004

ARE THINGS really as ghastly as they appear this election year? President Bush is derided as a liar, brain-dead and a coward, not just by fringe groups but by prominent members of the Democratic establishment. Major intellectuals and artists lament that John Kerry won all three debates by skilled debating -- and yet gained little ground.

Even the wives and children are involved now. Kerry and his running mate John Edwards gratuitously broached the sexuality of Vice President Dick Cheney's daughter; his wife fired back that Kerry is not "a good man." And just when we got a brief respite, Teresa Heinz Kerry derided Laura Bush as never having a real job -- before apologizing that, yes, a decade at work in public school counts as real employment.

Third-party ads, fueled by the money of multimillionaires, imply that Kerry was also a coward and traitor and that Bush was AWOL. CBS News anchor Dan Rather is caught promulgating clearly forged documents, an ABC memo warns against the chimera of objectivity, and Sinclair Broadcast Group agrees to air only portions of a clearly partisan film after Democrats howled. There is no need to mention the conspiracy theories of "Fahrenheit 911," Teresa Heinz Kerry's "scumbag" and "shove it," or Dick Cheney's use of the F-word.

Meanwhile, the back-and-forth acrimony prompts thousands of lawyers to contest an election in advance, hoping to win through the courts should they fail in the popular vote or Electoral College. Unfounded rumors circulate about a renewed draft, the end of Social Security and even of big-shot conservative politicians crowding ahead of the more needy for flu shots.

Is our republic paralyzed with hate, about to experience a dreaded next stage of violence in the streets, akin to the last dark days of the Roman Republic when gangs stormed the forum? Not really.

There is a long history of similar American political invective. The elections of 1864 saw far worse slurs. Statesmen like Andrew Jackson, Abraham Lincoln and Ronald Reagan were routinely decried as savages, baboons and senile. For all the current name-calling, no one has accused either candidate of fathering illegitimate children, turning the country over to the Pope, or being intoxicated while on the job -- standard election year slander of the past. There are no riots in the streets, as was common in 1968.

Yet the true nature of our loud divisiveness is rarely remarked upon. In the last three decades, there has been a steady evolution from liberal to moderately conservative politics among a majority of the voters, whether gauged by the recent spate of Republican presidents or Bill Clinton's calculated shift to the center. Now the House, Senate, presidency and the majority of state governorships and legislatures are in Republican hands. A Bush win will ensure a conservative Supreme Court for a generation.

In contrast, the universities, the arts, the major influential media and Hollywood are predominately liberal -- and furious. They bring an enormous amount of capital, talent, education and cultural influence into the political fray -- but continue to lose real political power. The talented elite plays the same role to the rest of America as the Europeans do to the United States -- venting and seething because the supposedly less sophisticated, but far more powerful, average Joes don't embrace their visions of utopia.

Elites from college professors and George Soros to Bruce Springsteen and Garrison Keillor believe that their underappreciated political insight is a natural byproduct of their own proven artistic genius, education, talent or capital. How then can a tongue-tied George W. Bush and his cronies so easily fool Americans, when novelists, actors, singers, comedians and venture capitalists have spent so much time and money warning them of their danger?

For all Sean Penn's rants, Rather's sermons, Michael Moore's mythodramas and Jon Stewart's postmodern snickers, America, even in times of a controversial war and rocky economy, is still not impressed. National Public Radio, "Nightline" and the New York Times are working overtime to assert their views in this philosophical debate; Jimmy Carter and Al Gore -- not George H. W. Bush and Bob Dole -- are fuming. Most Americans snore or flip the channel.

It is apparently a terrible thing to be sensitive, glib, smart, educated or chic -- and not be listened to, as we have seen from this noisy and often hysterical campaign among elites. That is the real divide in this country, and it is only going to get worse.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2004/10/27/EDGA79GRPF1.DTL

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 29, 2004 8:46 pm 
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I always find it humorous when certain wealthy and elite conservatives (namely AM talk show hosts) accuse professors, scientists, and artists as being elitists.

I will say this, if being educated, artistic, and scientific is considered elite, count me in.

I would much rather be associated with being an educated "elite" than the alternative (being ignorant and simple).

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 Post subject: Re: Real divide is only in elitist minds
PostPosted: Sat Oct 30, 2004 2:07 am 
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TortureFollowsReward wrote:
Real divide is only in elitist minds
- Victor Davis Hanson
Wednesday, October 27, 2004

ARE THINGS really as ghastly as they appear this election year? President Bush is derided as a liar, brain-dead and a coward, not just by fringe groups but by prominent members of the Democratic establishment. Major intellectuals and artists lament that John Kerry won all three debates by skilled debating -- and yet gained little ground.

Even the wives and children are involved now. Kerry and his running mate John Edwards gratuitously broached the sexuality of Vice President Dick Cheney's daughter; his wife fired back that Kerry is not "a good man." And just when we got a brief respite, Teresa Heinz Kerry derided Laura Bush as never having a real job -- before apologizing that, yes, a decade at work in public school counts as real employment.

Third-party ads, fueled by the money of multimillionaires, imply that Kerry was also a coward and traitor and that Bush was AWOL. CBS News anchor Dan Rather is caught promulgating clearly forged documents, an ABC memo warns against the chimera of objectivity, and Sinclair Broadcast Group agrees to air only portions of a clearly partisan film after Democrats howled. There is no need to mention the conspiracy theories of "Fahrenheit 911," Teresa Heinz Kerry's "scumbag" and "shove it," or Dick Cheney's use of the F-word.

Meanwhile, the back-and-forth acrimony prompts thousands of lawyers to contest an election in advance, hoping to win through the courts should they fail in the popular vote or Electoral College. Unfounded rumors circulate about a renewed draft, the end of Social Security and even of big-shot conservative politicians crowding ahead of the more needy for flu shots.

Is our republic paralyzed with hate, about to experience a dreaded next stage of violence in the streets, akin to the last dark days of the Roman Republic when gangs stormed the forum? Not really.

There is a long history of similar American political invective. The elections of 1864 saw far worse slurs. Statesmen like Andrew Jackson, Abraham Lincoln and Ronald Reagan were routinely decried as savages, baboons and senile. For all the current name-calling, no one has accused either candidate of fathering illegitimate children, turning the country over to the Pope, or being intoxicated while on the job -- standard election year slander of the past. There are no riots in the streets, as was common in 1968.

Yet the true nature of our loud divisiveness is rarely remarked upon. In the last three decades, there has been a steady evolution from liberal to moderately conservative politics among a majority of the voters, whether gauged by the recent spate of Republican presidents or Bill Clinton's calculated shift to the center. Now the House, Senate, presidency and the majority of state governorships and legislatures are in Republican hands. A Bush win will ensure a conservative Supreme Court for a generation.

In contrast, the universities, the arts, the major influential media and Hollywood are predominately liberal -- and furious. They bring an enormous amount of capital, talent, education and cultural influence into the political fray -- but continue to lose real political power. The talented elite plays the same role to the rest of America as the Europeans do to the United States -- venting and seething because the supposedly less sophisticated, but far more powerful, average Joes don't embrace their visions of utopia.

Elites from college professors and George Soros to Bruce Springsteen and Garrison Keillor believe that their underappreciated political insight is a natural byproduct of their own proven artistic genius, education, talent or capital. How then can a tongue-tied George W. Bush and his cronies so easily fool Americans, when novelists, actors, singers, comedians and venture capitalists have spent so much time and money warning them of their danger?

For all Sean Penn's rants, Rather's sermons, Michael Moore's mythodramas and Jon Stewart's postmodern snickers, America, even in times of a controversial war and rocky economy, is still not impressed. National Public Radio, "Nightline" and the New York Times are working overtime to assert their views in this philosophical debate; Jimmy Carter and Al Gore -- not George H. W. Bush and Bob Dole -- are fuming. Most Americans snore or flip the channel.

It is apparently a terrible thing to be sensitive, glib, smart, educated or chic -- and not be listened to, as we have seen from this noisy and often hysterical campaign among elites. That is the real divide in this country, and it is only going to get worse.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2004/10/27/EDGA79GRPF1.DTL

Well Republicans dont protest like democrats.
Democrats need tobe heard, they need attention and will do anything to get it.
They arent smart enough todo it peacefully.
So if it comes to fighting, Im going down fighting.
I already know what the next post is going tobe.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Oct 30, 2004 2:10 am 
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You do?

Psychic :wink:

I'm liberal and I do not protest violently.

You're statement does not apply to all.

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We twist the world
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Oct 30, 2004 2:11 am 
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tsunami wrote:
You do?

Psychic :wink:

I'm liberal and I do not protest violently.

You're statement does not apply to all.

Good then I will fight you then, you seem soft, I will kick your ass :P

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Oct 30, 2004 2:13 am 
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men on trampolines wrote:
tsunami wrote:
You do?

Psychic :wink:

I'm liberal and I do not protest violently.

You're statement does not apply to all.

Good then I will fight you then, you seem soft, I will kick your ass :P


I don't think you want any of this!

*finishes squatting*

*sizes up MOT*

No problem!

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We twist the world
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Oct 30, 2004 2:14 am 
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men on trampolines wrote:
tsunami wrote:
You do?

Psychic :wink:

I'm liberal and I do not protest violently.

You're statement does not apply to all.

Good then I will fight you then, you seem soft, I will kick your ass :P


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Oh, somehow I seriously doubt that. ;)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Oct 30, 2004 2:14 am 
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Green Habit wrote:
men on trampolines wrote:
tsunami wrote:
You do?

Psychic :wink:

I'm liberal and I do not protest violently.

You're statement does not apply to all.

Good then I will fight you then, you seem soft, I will kick your ass :P


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Oh, somehow I seriously doubt that. ;)


*high fives*

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Oct 30, 2004 2:15 am 
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tsunami wrote:
men on trampolines wrote:
tsunami wrote:
You do?

Psychic :wink:

I'm liberal and I do not protest violently.

You're statement does not apply to all.

Good then I will fight you then, you seem soft, I will kick your ass :P


I don't think you want any of this!

*finishes squatting*

*sizes up MOT*

No problem!

:P

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Oct 30, 2004 8:11 pm 
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tsunami wrote:
I always find it humorous when certain wealthy and elite conservatives (namely AM talk show hosts) accuse professors, scientists, and artists as being elitists.

I will say this, if being educated, artistic, and scientific is considered elite, count me in.

I would much rather be associated with being an educated "elite" than the alternative (being ignorant and simple).


That very attitude is what makes you an "elitist". You are not better than anyone else....


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Oct 30, 2004 8:14 pm 
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sleightofhandpj wrote:
tsunami wrote:
I always find it humorous when certain wealthy and elite conservatives (namely AM talk show hosts) accuse professors, scientists, and artists as being elitists.

I will say this, if being educated, artistic, and scientific is considered elite, count me in.

I would much rather be associated with being an educated "elite" than the alternative (being ignorant and simple).


That very attitude is what makes you an "elitist". You are not better than anyone else....


what you decide isn't any more important than what she decides either.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Oct 30, 2004 8:15 pm 
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malice wrote:
sleightofhandpj wrote:
tsunami wrote:
I always find it humorous when certain wealthy and elite conservatives (namely AM talk show hosts) accuse professors, scientists, and artists as being elitists.

I will say this, if being educated, artistic, and scientific is considered elite, count me in.

I would much rather be associated with being an educated "elite" than the alternative (being ignorant and simple).


That very attitude is what makes you an "elitist". You are not better than anyone else....


what you decide isn't any more important than what she decides either.


good point. If I knew how to spell tushea, i would

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Seems my preconceptions are what should have been burned


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Oct 30, 2004 8:19 pm 
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thunderfence wrote:
malice wrote:
sleightofhandpj wrote:
tsunami wrote:
I always find it humorous when certain wealthy and elite conservatives (namely AM talk show hosts) accuse professors, scientists, and artists as being elitists.

I will say this, if being educated, artistic, and scientific is considered elite, count me in.

I would much rather be associated with being an educated "elite" than the alternative (being ignorant and simple).


That very attitude is what makes you an "elitist". You are not better than anyone else....


what you decide isn't any more important than what she decides either.


good point. If I knew how to spell tushea, i would


maybe you should just concern yourself with trying to learn how to think. I have no desire to hear anything from someone who feels it's ok to threaten other people here.

Thanks though :arrow:

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Alex wrote:
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Oct 30, 2004 8:22 pm 
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sleightofhandpj wrote:
tsunami wrote:
I always find it humorous when certain wealthy and elite conservatives (namely AM talk show hosts) accuse professors, scientists, and artists as being elitists.

I will say this, if being educated, artistic, and scientific is considered elite, count me in.

I would much rather be associated with being an educated "elite" than the alternative (being ignorant and simple).


That very attitude is what makes you an "elitist". You are not better than anyone else....


You can think whatever you please.

If you think that a person is elite just because he/she is educated, artistic, or scientific then that is your belief. You can do as you please.

Do I think of myself as elite? Of course not.

I just find it rather humorous that just because a person went to college, has an advanced degree, is a scientist, or is an artist, they automatically become an "elitist" in the minds of certain conservatives. The "intelligencia" as I believe some have put it.

That is stereotypical on their behalf. Furthermore it is rather dimwitted if you really think about it. They seem to abhor education and the educated, which I would much rather be than ignorant.

They seem to catagorize everyone into one of two catagories:

a.) Educated/artistic elite
b.) Ignorant simpleton

The world is not as black and white as certain conservatives would like us to believe. The fact is that:

Not all liberals are highly educated, atheist, snotty elitists

AND

Not all conservatives are ignorant, religious, flag-wavers.

The world is quite certainly not that simple.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Oct 30, 2004 8:24 pm 
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Malice=PJDoll

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"i'll do this one myself. myself. myself" -kurd
Seems my preconceptions are what should have been burned


Last edited by thunderfence on Sat Oct 30, 2004 8:31 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Oct 30, 2004 8:24 pm 
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malice wrote:
thunderfence wrote:
malice wrote:
sleightofhandpj wrote:
tsunami wrote:
I always find it humorous when certain wealthy and elite conservatives (namely AM talk show hosts) accuse professors, scientists, and artists as being elitists.

I will say this, if being educated, artistic, and scientific is considered elite, count me in.

I would much rather be associated with being an educated "elite" than the alternative (being ignorant and simple).


That very attitude is what makes you an "elitist". You are not better than anyone else....


what you decide isn't any more important than what she decides either.


good point. If I knew how to spell tushea, i would


maybe you should just concern yourself with trying to learn how to think. I have no desire to hear anything from someone who feels it's ok to threaten other people here.

Thanks though :arrow:


I never said my opinion was more important. Simply that no one's opinion is any more important than anyone else's.....

And I do blieve it is "touche"


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Oct 30, 2004 8:25 pm 
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thunderfence wrote:
Malice=PJDog


:?:

If you have a private message, PM it.

Please do not troll or flame.

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We twist the world
And ride the wind


Last edited by tsunami on Sat Oct 30, 2004 8:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Oct 30, 2004 8:28 pm 
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tsunami wrote:
thunderfence wrote:
Malice=PJDog


:?:


I love you , my little wave..

_________________
take the ladder up to the moon...
"i'll do this one myself. myself. myself" -kurd
Seems my preconceptions are what should have been burned


Last edited by thunderfence on Sat Oct 30, 2004 8:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Oct 30, 2004 8:29 pm 
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thunderfence wrote:
tsunami wrote:
thunderfence wrote:
Malice=PJDog


:?:


I love you , my little wave..
but anyways
Malice is PJDoll . But the album was called lost Dogs and she is about a duece so I call her PJDog


This is a personal attack.

Please read the forum rules.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Oct 30, 2004 8:32 pm 
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Rules and Guidelines
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Personal attacks are not welcome here. If you have a beef with someone, take it up with them privately, away from RM resources. This board is not the place for it.
Back to top

I retract. You are right. I was doing so well. I am very easily baited. I'm sorry.

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take the ladder up to the moon...
"i'll do this one myself. myself. myself" -kurd
Seems my preconceptions are what should have been burned


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