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 Post subject: Real beauty vs cultural brainwashing
PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2005 10:34 am 
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This is an article about Dove's new ad campaign that features real sized women. This article, written by a woman, is disturbing to me and it is the most perfect example I have seen of a woman who has been conditioned by American culture to accept only a certain kind of female body.

I think the author is not aware of her own body image issues, but these issues are obvious to me in her bizarre justification at her revulsion at these ads.

I interjected my opinion throughout the article...

Quote:
Beauty ads of 'real women' are a bit revolting

BY MEGHAN DAUM
Meghan Daum is an essayist and novelist in Los Angeles. This is from the Los Angeles Times. James Klurfeld is off.

August 12, 2005

I realize that, as a woman who does not happen to be a supermodel, I'm supposed to appreciate and even feel empowered by Dove's "Real Women for Beauty" ad campaign.

You know the one. On billboards and bus stops across the country, six "real" women pose in white bras and panties, their fleshy thighs, generous hips and presumably surgically unaltered breasts on spirited display.


Fucking finally. Real women on billboards and I am really hoping this sets off a change in the way the media protrays women.

Quote:
Apparently this is more than just an ad campaign; it's a political movement. "For too long, beauty has been defined by narrow, stifling stereotypes," Dove's Web site explains. "You've told us it's time to change all that."

I don't remember telling Dove anything. But, now that Dove mentions it, I actually feel a little sick to my stomach.

Why? It could be that the lead product of this campaign is, ahem, cellulite firming cream. Dove is sounding the trumpets of body acceptance while selling woe-begotten "real women" a cure for their realness.


This is still America and there is always a capiltalist motive, no matter what. Why blast this particular ad campaign? Why not enjoy seeing bodies that more closely match what real women look like?

I think this author has a deep seeded, barely subconscious hatred of overweight women caused by a lifetime of looking at the likes of Kate Moss and Twiggy in magazines.

Quote:
"Firming the thighs of a size-two supermodel is no challenge," reads the text on the Web site. "Real women have real bodies with real curves."

But that's not really what fazes me. Dove is hardly the first company to sell solutions by inventing problems. If anything, this "realness" aesthetic should seem middlebrow.

So why am I feeling so uneasy? Is it simply that we're now shocked by any woman in the media who isn't built like a silicone-enhanced greyhound? It's tempting to say the ads prove how shallow we have all become.

Here we are in 2005, in the same summer that the health manual "Our Bodies, Ourselves," the very touchstone of hairy-arm-pitted, bra-burning exuberance, is celebrating its 30th anniversary, and women are clucking their tongues at models who don't meet the preternatural standards of Tyra Banks and Kate Moss. Has the cultural preoccupation with "narrow, stifling stereotypes" become so ingrained that we're repulsed by our own reflections?

Actually, I think not. What's shocking about these ads has more to do with a curious invasion of privacy than with neuroses surrounding jiggly flesh. Seeing these women blown up to dozens of times their actual size above the thoroughfares of American cities is a bit like seeing an enormous picture of one's own bedroom on display to anyone who drives by.

We love our bedrooms - partly because they're private spaces, sanctuaries for ourselves and the ones we love. The bed may be unmade, clothes may be strewn across the floor, but we love this space because the messiness reminds us we're at home.

Naked bodies - especially, it seems, those of women - work much the same way. Although the visual impact cannot be underestimated, there are hundreds of other sensory expressions - smells, textures, sounds - that simply cannot be represented in advertising. That is the reason we have professional models. They show us their bodies without invading our privacy or their own. An underwear model represents intimacy while at the same time protecting us from the rawness of actual intimacy. Her genius lies in her ability to be generic. And this is something Dove's "real women" just can't do.


So is the author's problem with the size or the nakedness of said bodies? Why is a naked victoria's secret model "less private" and "less intimate"? Why are tall, skinny women "generic" when tall, skinny women are by far the minority in this country?

And what is so wrong with seeing a little intimate reality on a billboard or in a magazine? Makes me wonder if this author was one of those who had paroxysms over Janet Jackson's tittie.

Quote:
That's why so many of us react not with a rallying, "You go, girls!" but with a string of panicked questions. "Who are they?" we ask. "Do I look like that? Should I not look like that? Do I look better than them? Do I look worse?"


I'm reacting with a rallying cry...but those who are reacting in a panicked way are just not ready to see reality, and they are not ready to accept that they have been conditioned by the media to constantly compare themselves to other women. Now they have women that look more like themselves and they don't have the cognitive pathways to know what to do with it.

Quote:
The first question can be answered on Dove's Web site, which supplies profiles and journal entries of each of the amateur models. The other questions reveal an irony far greater than the fact that at the root of all this body acceptance lies a fear of cellulite. These women remind us how much we need professional models, not for their jutting bones and flawless skin but for the way they throw themselves in front of traffic so that we don't have to.

We may gasp, but I suspect what we're saying without realizing it is this: "Leave this work to the pros, girls. Real women have better things to do."


Leave this to the pros? Why does that sound like she is talking about prostitution? Why can't real women pose on billboards?

I cannot believe this article was written by a woman.

And again, I hope this is the start of the de-conditioning of American women.

http://www.newsday.com/news/opinion/ny- ... -headlines

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http://www.campaignforrealbeauty.com/flat3.asp?id=2287

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2005 10:40 am 
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I don't see how you can blame this on the media. The only reason the media promotes a certain type of beauty, is simply because the people prescribe to that certain idea of beauty. It's the consumer's that choose. It's the media that's taking what we want, and putting it out there for us to gobble up. If America was to suddenly reject that aspect of our culture, then the media would adjust to it. It's our own self-created monster, whether you care to admit it or not. The media is just an easy scapegoat.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2005 4:57 pm 
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Media shmedia. Am I the ONLY one that understand the mere LOGIC of models having a similar body type? If you're the one MAKING the clothes to be advertised, how many sizes are you supposed to make and bring to a photo shoot? By having an industry standard, it makes things easier.
Sure, it's frustrating for all of us who aren't a 5'9 a cup size 2, but you know what? I'm not blaming the Media for me not being able to be a linebacker, either.

I like the Dove Ads. They're not a clothing manufacturer, their product is made for and fits everyone. So that's who their using. It's their choice. WHAT'S THE BIG DEAL? Seriously?

Maybe some ugly girls hide behind the media scapegoat because they don't like how they look. If it's Sally 5'9 A cup size 2, that get's all the love, then they can complain that it's the media. But as soon as girls with any other bodies get a little love, and they realize that they still don't have a chance in hell of gracing a magazine cover, they're just going to find another angle to bitch about.

No, No, you're not ugly. It's the rest of the world that's wrong.

I'm 5'1 and I'll never be a supermodel. I'm okay with that.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2005 5:06 pm 
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NaiveAndTrue wrote:
Media shmedia. Am I the ONLY one that understand the mere LOGIC of models having a similar body type? If you're the one MAKING the clothes to be advertised, how many sizes are you supposed to make and bring to a photo shoot? By having an industry standard, it makes things easier.
Sure, it's frustrating for all of us who aren't a 5'9 a cup size 2, but you know what? I'm not blaming the Media for me not being able to be a linebacker, either.

I like the Dove Ads. They're not a clothing manufacturer, their product is made for and fits everyone. So that's who their using. It's their choice. WHAT'S THE BIG DEAL? Seriously?

Maybe some ugly girls hide behind the media scapegoat because they don't like how they look. If it's Sally 5'9 A cup size 2, that get's all the love, then they can complain that it's the media. But as soon as girls with any other bodies get a little love, and they realize that they still don't have a chance in hell of gracing a magazine cover, they're just going to find another angle to bitch about.

No, No, you're not ugly. It's the rest of the world that's wrong.

I'm 5'1 and I'll never be a supermodel. I'm okay with that.


why is it LOGIC to have the models all be 5;9 and size 2 if the average american that you are SELLING your clohtes to is something like 5'5" and a size 10-12? why not have all of your models be THAT size if you want to talk about logic?

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2005 5:23 pm 
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2005 5:38 pm 
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in a news broadcast last night, i heard that the average american woman is a size 14. so these dove ads that feature women who are size 6 to size 12 are not even representing the average american women.

if you look at the image trajectory of America's "perfect female body" then you will see that women have indeed been slowly conditioned to accept and then eventually want to see only skinny, siliconed, airbrushed bodies.

I am 5'8" and a size 2. by virtue of genetics, I have been handed the "ideal". i am not using the media as a scapegoat nor am i trying to compensate for a bad body image.

my point in this article was that the author herself was a victim, and she did not even know it. there was nothing in her article that indicated that she thought the media was to blame for anything, rather she subtly added to the media's dislike of the curvy women by objecting these ads.

Already in Love wrote:
why is it LOGIC to have the models all be 5;9 and size 2 if the average american that you are SELLING your clohtes to is something like 5'5" and a size 10-12? why not have all of your models be THAT size if you want to talk about logic?


exactly. i have a horrible time buying clothes: very few stores carry a size 2. the industry standard for models is so out of sync with reality that stores do not even carry clothes in the sizes these models wear.

so why do women still insist on gobbling up the images that vogue and glamour put out as reality?

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2005 7:05 pm 
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What is a "regular" sized woman?


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2005 7:32 pm 
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Dove is doing this campaing for some time here in BR...there is one that is a truly beafitul, gorgeous, thin and tall red hair girl that only because has that things on the face that are commun in red hair gilrs (sorry,i dont know how its called in english but i find them fucking charm) her beauty is consider "alternative"

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2005 9:10 pm 
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Electromatic wrote:
What is a "regular" sized woman?


by "regular" do you mean this?

kiddo wrote:
in a news broadcast last night, i heard that the average american woman is a size 14. so these dove ads that feature women who are size 6 to size 12 are not even representing the average american women.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2005 9:40 pm 
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The average American is fat. That really shouldn't be celebrated.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2005 9:56 pm 
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Already in Love wrote:
NaiveAndTrue wrote:
Media shmedia. Am I the ONLY one that understand the mere LOGIC of models having a similar body type? If you're the one MAKING the clothes to be advertised, how many sizes are you supposed to make and bring to a photo shoot? By having an industry standard, it makes things easier.
Sure, it's frustrating for all of us who aren't a 5'9 a cup size 2, but you know what? I'm not blaming the Media for me not being able to be a linebacker, either.

I like the Dove Ads. They're not a clothing manufacturer, their product is made for and fits everyone. So that's who their using. It's their choice. WHAT'S THE BIG DEAL? Seriously?

Maybe some ugly girls hide behind the media scapegoat because they don't like how they look. If it's Sally 5'9 A cup size 2, that get's all the love, then they can complain that it's the media. But as soon as girls with any other bodies get a little love, and they realize that they still don't have a chance in hell of gracing a magazine cover, they're just going to find another angle to bitch about.

No, No, you're not ugly. It's the rest of the world that's wrong.

I'm 5'1 and I'll never be a supermodel. I'm okay with that.


why is it LOGIC to have the models all be 5;9 and size 2 if the average american that you are SELLING your clohtes to is something like 5'5" and a size 10-12? why not have all of your models be THAT size if you want to talk about logic?


It's not the numbers that are logic, it's the identicalness (i made up a word) in general. #1 - having the standard size makes photo shoots/ runway shows easy. Bring basically 1 size, everyone fits.
#2 - tall, thin and boobless doesn't interrupt with the line of the clothes. Everything falls exactly how the designer wants it to, and therefore, looks good to consumers. Which is why everyone looks the same but thin, as apposed to the same but lumpy.

I'm not saying it's 100% right, and but it does make sense.

Not every country on the planet is as fat as america, and not all clothes are designed specifically for americans.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2005 10:12 pm 
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washmykev wrote:
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Beat me to it.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 13, 2005 12:02 am 
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bart d. wrote:
The average American is fat. That really shouldn't be celebrated.


Amen.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 13, 2005 10:07 am 
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Mercury wrote:
bart d. wrote:
The average American is fat. That really shouldn't be celebrated.


Amen.


this is not about celebrating fat, it is about celebrating a female form that is not bone thin.

i would not consider any of the women in those ads as obese. a tad overweight, but they look healthy to me. and that is the point: real, healthy women posing on billboards instead of emaciated stick women.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 13, 2005 11:03 am 
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Who cares?

Until Brad Pitt starts doing smack and ends up a scrawny junkie-looking guy, I won't look like him. I'll never look like Johnny Depp, George Clooney, Orlando Bloom, Jude Law, or any other celebrities that women seem to drool over. I'm not going to start flipping out over it.

I don't think I met any girl throughout my adolescence that felt the need to go for that "heroin-chic" look. Maybe I hung out with girls whose attitudes strayed from the norm, or had bodies that were considered "ideal" by society, or maybe, just maybe, this whole "ad campaigns are hurting youth" thing has been blown way out of proportion and the youth of America has self-esteem that's significantly more sufficient than they're given credit for.

Furthermore, if this is the "average woman," why would I want to see her on a billboard? I can look out the car window and see her walking down the street. I don't see Kate Hudson in my daily life. Put her on a billboard. If I feel like looking at fat chicks, there's a Jenny Craig 10 minutes away.

I understand the whole women-having-pride-in-their-curves stuff, whatever. I just don't think it needs to be brought up as much as it is. I especially don't understand it because the celebrity women that men are attracted to often have curves themselves. Ever notice that most of the emaciated-looking models appear in women's magazines? Ever notice that women with more to their bodies than that appear in men's magazines?

But then people start complaining about how not every woman can be 36D blahblah whatever. What happened to that whole "beauty is on the inside" thing? Or didn't that convince people?

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 13, 2005 1:36 pm 
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Mercury wrote:
bart d. wrote:
The average American is fat. That really shouldn't be celebrated.


Amen.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 13, 2005 2:16 pm 
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kiddo wrote:
Mercury wrote:
bart d. wrote:
The average American is fat. That really shouldn't be celebrated.


Amen.


this is not about celebrating fat, it is about celebrating a female form that is not bone thin.

i would not consider any of the women in those ads as obese. a tad overweight, but they look healthy to me. and that is the point: real, healthy women posing on billboards instead of emaciated stick women.


I can agree with that. I think it would be nice to see different body types used because people are different and have different tastes in what they find attractive. But going back to what was said earlier, I don't think you're going to see ads celebrating the average american because that person is probably obese and I don't think we should accept, much less celebrate that. Hell, I think it's pathetic that they don't raise your health insurance premium like they would for a smoker if your BMI goes over a certain percentage. I don't think the Dove campaign is that big of a deal but I certainly hope someone doesn't take it a step further and turn it into a "let's embrace our own fat asses America" campaign.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 13, 2005 6:31 pm 
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nevermind.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2005 6:54 am 
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I think the reason why they use a certain body type for most models is because it sells more product. They do market research to prove this.

Don't tell me the multi billion dollar corporation Gap uses skinny models because it would be too expensive to use more sizes of clothes for their photo shoots. C'mon think about it.

This Dove thing is just a stunt the norm won't change.

The average American is overweight and something like a third are clinically obese. I don't think presenting overweight models is a healthier body image than thin women. Obesity leads to a great number of health problems.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2005 7:59 am 
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Bammer wrote:
washmykev wrote:
Image

Beat me to it.


does me not finding her attractive in the least make me shallow?


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