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 Post subject: HUGE Lies uncovered in London Subway shooting.
PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2005 3:30 pm 
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Footage Contradicts London Police Reports


LONDON - A Brazilian shot to death a day after botched bombings in London had walked casually onto a train before being gunned down by undercover officers, according to leaked footage that appeared to contradict earlier police reports that said the man disobeyed police orders.

Jean Charles de Menezes, a 27-year-old electrician, was shot eight times last month in front of terrified commuters on a subway train, after undercover police tailed him from a house under surveillance.

Police first said the shooting was related to the failed bombings on the London transit system July 21 — two weeks after four suspected suicide bombers blew themselves up in three Underground stations and aboard one double-decker bus.

Sir Ian Blair, the Metropolitan Police commissioner, called the death regrettable, but said it appeared "the man was challenged and refused to obey police instructions."

Citing security footage, a British television station reported Tuesday that Menezes entered the Stockwell subway station at a normal walking pace, stopping to pick up a newspaper before boarding a train and taking a seat.

The ITV News broadcast, citing an investigation report into the shooting, also said Menezes was wearing a light denim jacket when he was shot seven times in the head and once in the shoulder. Witness reports described a terrifying scene of the man — wearing a bulky jacket on a warm July day — running through the train station, being tackled by a group of undercover police officers, then being shot several times at close range.

The Independent Police Complaints Commission, which is investigating the shooting, refused Wednesday to comment on the veracity of the documents cited by ITV News.

A police spokeswoman also refused to explain what Blair meant when he said it appeared Menezes disobeyed orders. She noted, however, that police never said Menezes had tried to vault the barriers at the Underground station or tried to run from police.

Lawyer Harriet Wistrich, acting for the Brazilian's family, said police had no reason to suspect Menezes was a bomber.

"He was not carrying a rucksack. He simply had a denim jacket," Wistrich told British Broadcasting Corp. TV. "Was it necessary to shoot him dead as opposed to trying to confront him at an earlier stage? There was no indication he was about to blow himself up at all."

ITV News said that, according to the IPCC report, a member of the team that tailed Menezes into the subway train said he heard shouting including the word "police" before turning to face the Brazilian.

"He immediately stood up and advanced towards me and the ... officers ... I grabbed the male in the denim jacket by wrapping both my arms around his torso, pinning his arms to his side," the unidentified officer was quoted as saying.

"I then pushed him back on to the seat where he had been previously sitting. ... I then heard a gun shot very close to my left ear and was dragged away onto the floor of the carriage."

A man sitting opposite Menezes saw a man boarding and firing his first shot from a handgun at the Brazilian's head from 12 inches away, according to the report obtained by ITV.

The report also said that, while Menezes was shot eight times, three other bullets were fired but missed.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2005 3:43 pm 
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Last edited by psychobain on Wed Aug 17, 2005 3:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2005 3:44 pm 
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oops

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2005 3:56 pm 
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Sounds like the beginnings of another lawsuit and a few firings in the police system.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2005 4:28 pm 
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And people think American cops are trigger happy. :roll:

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2005 4:48 pm 
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bullet proof wrote:
Sounds like the beginnings of another lawsuit and a few firings in the police system.


there should be alot more than firings.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2005 5:23 pm 
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corky wrote:
bullet proof wrote:
Sounds like the beginnings of another lawsuit and a few firings in the police system.


there should be alot more than firings.


indeed


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2005 5:31 pm 
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how discouraging.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2005 5:50 pm 
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Meh.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2005 6:02 pm 
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How did his shoes come off his feet? It must be a conspiracy!!!

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2005 6:22 pm 
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shot seven times in the head!?!?!?! wtf! guess they wanted to make sure he did'nt get up.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2005 12:57 am 
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here's a link to the original article:
http://news.yahoo.com/fc/world/london_bombings

and here's a better article I found:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/attackonlondo ... 69,00.html

Quote:

Leaks raise sharp questions about police tactics

Inquiry into the killing of De Menezes shows he was sitting down when shot

Duncan Campbell, Rosie Cowan, Vikram Dodd and Mark Honigsbaum
Wednesday August 17, 2005
The Guardian

The leaked details of the investigation into the shooting of Jean Charles de Menezes point to huge discrepancies between initial reports and reality. The documents leaked to ITN have raised new questions both about the police tactics and about the inquiry into the young Brazilian's death.

Among the key questions prompted by the documents are:

Why was there such disparity between the initial reports and the reality?

The shooting occurred the day after what could have been a second major bombing attack on London. At the time there were many conflicting reports, an air of panic and a shortage of hard information. The first reports of the killing came from witnesses at Stockwell tube station and police sources. Much of it was unconfirmed.

First accounts to enter the public arena said Mr de Menezes aroused suspicion because he wore a "heavily padded" jacket, or a "bulky coat with wires sticking out of it". Reports suggested that he had ignored police calls to halt, vaulted the ticket barrier and pushed passengers out of the way.

It now appears that he entered the station at a "normal walking pace", and that witnesses mistook the pursuing police for him, hence the accounts about vaulting barriers and passengers being pushed out of the way. In any fast-moving situation there are as many differing accounts as there are people. The police at the time officially declined to give detailed information, saying that it was normal practice in such a case for an investigation to be held, and that they did not wish to prejudice the inquiry.

How significant was it that an officer was relieving himself at a time when he was part of a video surveillance operation?

There is no evidence that this human necessity would have made any difference to the outcome. The footage was almost certainly not being used for immediate identification purposes and therefore would not have been analysed to show the wrong man was being pursued. It does appear, however, that there was a serious breakdown in the intelligence being relayed between officers. How such scrambled information was acted on will be at the heart of the inquiry.

Why did police let Mr de Menezes get as far as entering Stockwell underground station and actually boarding a tube train?

The leaked documents quote a firearms officer as saying: "The current strategy around the address was as follows: No subject coming out of the address would be allowed to run, and that an interception should take place as soon as possible away from the address, trying not to compromise it."

The papers also state: "de Menezes was observed walking to a bus stop and then boarded a bus, travelling to Stockwell tube station. During the course of this, his description and demeanour was assessed and it was believed he matched the identity of one of the suspects wanted for terrorist offences ... the information was passed through the operations centre and gold command made the decision and gave appropriate instructions that de Menezes was to be prevented from entering the tube system. At this stage the operation moved to code red tactic, responsibility was handed over to CO19 [Scotland Yard's firearms unit]."

But this does not explain why, if police believed he was a suspected suicide bomber, he was allowed to walk from his home, board a bus and travel several miles before getting off, going into the tube station, and down the escalator on to a train, potentially putting dozens of passengers at risk.

Why was he shot when already under restraint?

The new police guidelines, under Operation Kratos, recommend "shooting to kill to protect" suspected suicide bombers by firing at their heads so that the bullets will not accidentally detonate explosives strapped around their bodies.

But in this case, a surveillance officer tells how he grabbed Mr de Menezes and was holding him before he was shot.

"I heard shouting which included the word 'police' and turned to face the male in the denim jacket. He [de Menezes] immediately stood up and advanced towards me and the CO19 officers," said the surveillance officer's leaked statement.

"I grabbed the male in the denim jacket by wrapping both my arms around his torso, pinning his arms to his side. I then pushed him back on to the seat where he had been previously sitting ... I then heard a gun shot very close to my left ear and was dragged away on to the floor of the carriage."

The inquiry will have to establish why a man who was clearly not carrying a bomb and had been physically restrained was still shot eight times.

What is the role of the gold commander referred to in the document?

According to the documents, once surveillance officers believed they had identified Mr de Menezes as a terrorist, a gold commander was informed and special tactics were deployed.

That morning the gold commander was Commander Cressida Dick, who was monitoring the fast-moving developments. The gold commander in such a terrorist operation would not be directly involved in the investigation, to give as much critical distance as possible, as she would have to make a life and death decision.

The reason such a senior officer was in charge was because the police had developed special and controversial tactics, Operation Kratos, to deal with the terrorist threat.

What is meant by Kratos criteria, and why are they so crucial?

The documents reveal that firearms officers involved in the operation were told "unusual tactics" may be required and if they "were deployed to intercept a subject there was an opportunity to challenge, but if the subject was non-compliant, a critical shot may be taken".

Those are probably references to special tactics developed to counter the threat of a suicide bomber who police believe is about to explode a device.

The tactics are known as Operation Kratos and allow officers to shoot a suspect in the head, if needs be, without shouting any warning.

Senior sources say this is necessary because a suicide bomber who becomes aware that police are on to him will detonate the device immediately. This is the experience of law enforcement in Israel and Sri Lanka, which have faced sustained suicide bombing campaigns.

The tactics were developed by a national steering group on tackling suicide bombers, but officers involved still may have to show that their actions amounted to reasonable force.

The other test in law is what the officers believed at the time when they opened fire. So even if the victim had no weapon or explosive, nor was a terrorist, any trial would have to disprove an officer's assertion that he honestly believed that the victim was a suicide bomber, based on information received from colleagues.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2005 2:24 pm 
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sad story

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2005 2:36 pm 
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The British police over-react to terrorism and completely fuck up?! no way!

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2005 3:05 pm 
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johnnyOTS wrote:

Terrorists? Oh, blast. I just soiled my knickers. :(

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2005 8:09 pm 
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carolinapunk wrote:
shot seven times in the head!?!?!?! wtf! guess they wanted to make sure he did'nt get up.


Can you even shoot someone 7 times in the head? Isn't there a point where there is no longer a head to shoot at?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2005 9:30 pm 
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so, not only he wasn't a terrorist or an illegal alien, but he wasn't even running or wearing a heavy coat... simple manslaughter. and they say brazilian police is violent...

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2005 10:27 pm 
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Zutballs wrote:
How did his shoes come off his feet? It must be a conspiracy!!!


he lost his shoes in a fit of joy

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 2:15 am 
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I'll bet that the police sprinkled some crack on him to leave no doubt.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 4:39 am 
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dea wrote:
so, not only he wasn't a terrorist or an illegal alien, but he wasn't even running or wearing a heavy coat... simple manslaughter. and they say brazilian police is violent...


What is the reaction like in Brazil?

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