As I type now, settlers are being forcibly removed from their settlements on the Gaza Strip, having been served with the eviction notice 2 days ago.

About time this happened. The problem is this will lead to the Israeli extreme right conducting terrorist attacks against the moderates. Terrorism in Israel. Actually, this really doesn't sound like news.

In the meantime, Hamas is fighting (not quite militarily yet) with Fatah for control of Gaza. Will this be the dawn of a moderate Hamas, just as the IRA morphed into Sinn Fein?

You might know more about this than I do, Hinny, so feel free to expand your opinion. But I just don't see any way that mess ends until both the Israeli and Arab people there stop treating each other like second class citizens. How to accomplish this, I have no fucking clue.

Speaking of which remember how Rabin was murdered?

Palestine is a synonym for terror. The Palestinian "freedom fighters" were shooting at the settlers as they were leaving. And you are right about Hamas and Fatah in-fighting. Just another example of why the new Iraq will fail. The propensity for religous violence exceeds the desire for freedom.


I really think people overreact when it comes to Palestine. The Russians in Checnya are far worse than the Israelis have ever been,

Do you have any documentation to back this up? I've heard nothing of this sort of thing, and I've been following this story pretty closely.

Says here that Israelis killed 3 Palestinians, so I'm not sure where b_i got his info.

I may have to retract that, drudge pulled the link.


http://www.focus-fen.net/index.php?catid=138&ch=0&newsid=70333

it would be an understatement to say that you are biased against the people of palestine. lets see, how would you feel if the u.n. created a boundary for your country and your neighboring country decided to invade you, kill your people and take over your land for its own. this has been going on for more than 30 years.

do some reading outside of the druge report.

First of, I don't think your account of history is entirely correct:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel

I don't level blame on the people of "Palestine". I blame their leadership, which historically has been little but "reformed" terrorists (Arafat for example). Leadership can easily corrupt innocents. According to a recent poll, many Palestinians believe terrorism caused the Gaza pull out:

http://www.jnewswire.com/library/article.php?articleid=586

If 40% believe terrorists are effective leaders, little will change in the long run. The point is that Palestine may have been craved up by the UN, but that does not justify the attacks against civilians in Israel. Has Israel ever invaded it's neighbors other than in responce to attacks? Have Israels neighbors even recognized it as a legitamite state?

Drudge report doesn't usually write the stories themsleves. It's usually a collection of links to outside new sources, many of them foreign.

I don't think either side of this saga can claim to be blameless.

I'd suggest the same.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1967_Six_Day_War

please tell me where my historical summary was incorrect:

1967 June (Six Day) War begins when Israel attacks Egypt, claiming it is acting preemptively; Israel occupies West Bank, Gaza Strip, Egyptian Sinai, and Syrian Golan Heights, expands Jerusalem boundaries and extends Israeli law over East Jerusalem; U.N. Security Council Resolution 242 calls for withdrawal of Israeli troops from territories newly occupied.

http://www.afsc.org/israel-palestine/learn/timeline.htm

i dont agree with violence and i dont condone it. we (americans) have to learn to place ourselves in others shoes and understand what they go through. yes, leaders persuade people and sometimes think for them. This much is a fact, israel has occupied the west bank and the gaza strip by military force against the will and resolutions of the u.n.. i

"Has Israel ever invaded it's neighbors other than in responce to attacks?"

f you believe that preemptive strikes against a country are actually warranted defensive responses, then i cant go on debating you, b/c i fear that you agree with the war in iraq and that would lead me to flip out.

"On May 23rd, 1967, Egypt again cut off the Straits of Tiran (Israel's main shipping route to Asia and other major places of trade) to Israeli shipping, and also blockaded the port of Eilat. Egypt ordered United Nations peacekeeping forces to leave the Sinai, and in their place, Egyptian tanks and troops were concentrated on the border with Israel. In accordance with international law (United Nations Conference on the Law of the Sea, (Geneva: UN Publications 1958, pp. 132-134.), Israel considered the blockade of its port a casus belli, and launched an attack on Egypt, especially the Egyptian Air Force. Hostilities came to include Jordan (after Jordan reluctantly chose to dismiss Israeli appeals for neutrality and undertook shelling of Tel Aviv in adherence to its defense treaty with Egypt), Syria, and the Iraqi Air Force. "

If that is not provocation for war (a miliatry blockade of Israel's main shipping port) I don't know what is.

Seriously, man. We're not talking about trekking halfway around the world to attack and occupy another country like in Iraq, and it's a shame that Bush used the same term that the Israeli's used in 1967, because it's not the same thing.

Spend five minutes and read that article I posted. Once you get past the "Israel attacked Egypt and Syria", you'll see that it was the result of months of direct provocations and overtures towards a military attack by the Arabs. International law is quite clear that you don't need to wait to be attacked in order to defend yourself, especially when the enemies are vowing to destroy your state and are moving military units onto your doorstep.

I do NOT believe the Israel's government is innocent of crimes against the Palestinians. I just believe that Palestine has become less and less of a human-rights tragedy and has become more of a rallying point for the "terrorism against (perceived) imperialism" crowd.

I said "Palestine is a synonym for Terror" because the world seems intent on blaming Israel for the terrorism inflicted by the Palestinians on Israeli innocents. Because apparently the Palestinians have no peaceful means available to them (they must not have heard of Ghandi). This becomes a de facto endorsment of the acts (not saying no is the same as saying yes) and suddenly terrorism is "ok" in some situations. The logic then follows that anyone who is victim of a terrorist attack was only a victim because the attackers were provoked. Similar to the kids who say "that bully would have left him alone if that kid hadn't looked at him funny."

What have the Palestinians given up in the peace process?

Watching the news channels right now, this experience is just completely surreal to me personally. I'm used to being on the other side, forming human chains, resisting arrest, getting hit by water cannon, tear gas/capsicum spray, all that youthful civil disobediance stuff that's standard practice for fringe protesters. The same tactics being applied by the protesters on the ground right now in the synagogues in the settlements, holding their ground against the police and army forces who are dragging them out one by one. Only this time I'm siding with the police.

It's all going rather smoothly. The police aren't armed. The protesters are throwing rocks and paintbombs. I can't help but be reminded that if they were Palestinian protesters, the IDF would be using live rounds.

my point is this, palestine has had the short end of the stick ever since israel was established.

im happy for those people to gain back the land that was taken from them, this much can not be argued.

hopefully this will lead to some long term peace. (long term in the context of the mid east) so probably a year or two.

The only thing they even have is hope. They don't have anything to lose, which I believe is why so many are willing to die for the cause. No land, no economy, industry, natural resources, nothing.

They have the ability to stop this:







Showing they support peace is the best thing they can do. I don't mean a bunch of two faced politicians or clerics claiming they support peace, then screaming "jihad" when the American media isn't looking. I mean peaceful protests against Hamas and IJ. The Palestinian people need to show they are against terrorism.

So, does anyone know where the Israelis that are being removed are to go? They are losing their home. Is the government compensating them?