Red Mosquito • View topic - most influencial thinker on the last century?

glorified_version · **Posted:** Tue Feb 06, 2007 4:43 am

Marx?
Freud?
Nietzsche?

Most influencial thinker on the 21st century?

Peter Van Wieren · **Joined:** Sun Oct 17, 2004 4:31 pm **Posts:** 7610

Marx

Forgot 21st. I dunno, hopefully Trotsky and Gandhi.

glorified_version · **Posted:** Tue Feb 06, 2007 4:50 am

Peter Van Wieren wrote:

Marx

Forgot 21st. I dunno, hopefully Trotsky and Gandhi.

Aren't the neocons big fans of Trotsky

vacatetheword · **Posted:** Tue Feb 06, 2007 5:01 am

gandhi. end of thread.

PeopleMyAge · **Posted:** Tue Feb 06, 2007 5:03 am

hitler had some pretty good ideas.

:lol:

Sunny · **Posted:** Tue Feb 06, 2007 5:06 am

It's has to be Gandhi. Although, I'd like to hear opinions on why ____ is a more influential thinker than Gandhi.

glorified_version · **Posted:** Tue Feb 06, 2007 5:12 am

Ghandi is a good choice

glorified_version · **Posted:** Tue Feb 06, 2007 5:13 am

or one would hope so, anyway

Peter Van Wieren · **Joined:** Sun Oct 17, 2004 4:31 pm **Posts:** 7610

glorified_version wrote:

Peter Van Wieren wrote:

Marx

Forgot 21st. I dunno, hopefully Trotsky and Gandhi.

Aren't the neocons big fans of Trotsky

Not anymore. Basically the term neoconservative comes from guys who were Trotskyites in the 60s but converted during the Reagan era. I think a lot of it had to do with Israel, as a great number of neocons are Jewish. Basically, neocons are far from the Marxists they once were.

glorified_version · **Posted:** Tue Feb 06, 2007 5:27 am

Peter Van Wieren wrote:

glorified_version wrote:

Peter Van Wieren wrote:

Marx

Forgot 21st. I dunno, hopefully Trotsky and Gandhi.

Aren't the neocons big fans of Trotsky

Not anymore. Basically the term neoconservative comes from guys who were Trotskyites in the 60s but converted during the Reagan era. I think a lot of it had to do with Israel, as a great number of neocons are Jewish. Basically, neocons are far from the Marxists they once were.

Yeah but the idea of rapidly transforming the world through liberalized democracies is similar to Trotskist ideology in some sense, right?

Peter Van Wieren · **Joined:** Sun Oct 17, 2004 4:31 pm **Posts:** 7610

Sunny wrote:

It's has to be Gandhi. Although, I'd like to hear opinions on why ____ is a more influential thinker than Gandhi.

for the 1900s? Gandhi didn't affect a heck of a lot outside India and the American South.

Marx's thinking influenced revolutions in, off the top of my head, these countries:

All of the Soviet Union
China
India
Cuba
Nicaragua
Chile
Vietnam
Guatemala
Ethiopia
Haiti
Angola
Turkey
Iran
Kenya

It also affected basically every other developing country on Earth for almost the entire century.

Peter Van Wieren · **Joined:** Sun Oct 17, 2004 4:31 pm **Posts:** 7610

glorified_version wrote:

Peter Van Wieren wrote:

glorified_version wrote:

Peter Van Wieren wrote:

Marx

Forgot 21st. I dunno, hopefully Trotsky and Gandhi.

Aren't the neocons big fans of Trotsky

Not anymore. Basically the term neoconservative comes from guys who were Trotskyites in the 60s but converted during the Reagan era. I think a lot of it had to do with Israel, as a great number of neocons are Jewish. Basically, neocons are far from the Marxists they once were.

Yeah but the idea of rapidly transforming the world through liberalized democracies is similar to Trotskist ideology in some sense, right?

In the sense that Trotsky advocated a worlwide revolution, yes. But other than that, not so much, really. Trotsky was obviously not the biggest fan of free markets or the kind of corporate driven globalism existent today. If the neocons start clamoring for the proletariat to take over in Iraq the comparison would be valid.

vacatetheword · **Posted:** Tue Feb 06, 2007 5:43 am

What about the long-term success of happenings which were influenced by Marxist ideas vs. those influenced by Gandhi, though?

Peter Van Wieren · **Joined:** Sun Oct 17, 2004 4:31 pm **Posts:** 7610

What does that have to do with the question?

glorified_version · **Posted:** Tue Feb 06, 2007 5:52 am

vacatetheword wrote:

What about the long-term success of happenings which were influenced by Marxist ideas vs. those influenced by Gandhi, though?

If social programs were implemented anywhere with success, then they were probably influenced by Marxism. It didn't just influence the Stalins and Maos of the world.

I think unarguably, anywhere where peaceful disobedience/revolution takes place, even if it is much more rare, is a greater success than any other sort of political, ideological advance. Aside from King, Ghandi was the major propenent of this.

Peter Van Wieren · **Joined:** Sun Oct 17, 2004 4:31 pm **Posts:** 7610

It's Gandhi, GV.

And it's interesting to note India was a Marxist country immediately after Gandhi's revolution. Nehru was absolutely a socialist. I wouldn't even disagree with someone generally saying Gandhi was a marxist.

$úñ_DëV|L · **Posted:** Tue Feb 06, 2007 5:57 am

Peter Van Wieren wrote:

Sunny wrote:

It's has to be Gandhi. Although, I'd like to hear opinions on why ____ is a more influential thinker than Gandhi.

for the 1900s? Gandhi didn't affect a heck of a lot outside India and the American South.

Marx's thinking influenced revolutions in, off the top of my head, these countries:

All of the Soviet Union
China
India
Cuba
Nicaragua
Chile
Vietnam
Guatemala
Ethiopia
Haiti
Angola
Turkey
Iran
Kenya

It also affected basically every other developing country on Earth for almost the entire century.

Don't forget Cambodia and her 2-3 million who were brutally murdered.

vacatetheword · **Posted:** Tue Feb 06, 2007 5:57 am

Peter Van Wieren wrote:

What does that have to do with the question?

nothing- and i was going to add that but couldn't fit it in. just a related line of thinking.

glorified_version wrote:

I think unarguably, anywhere where peaceful disobedience/revolution takes place, even if it is much more rare, is a greater success than any other sort of political, ideological advance. Aside from King, Ghandi was the major propenent of this.

Right. And it was Gandhi who influenced King in this way.

i got bugs · **Joined:** Sun Oct 17, 2004 5:01 pm **Posts:** 14261

bill walsh

Peter Van Wieren · **Joined:** Sun Oct 17, 2004 4:31 pm **Posts:** 7610

vacatetheword wrote:

glorified_version wrote:

I think unarguably, anywhere where peaceful disobedience/revolution takes place, even if it is much more rare, is a greater success than any other sort of political, ideological advance. Aside from King, Ghandi was the major propenent of this.

Right. And it was Gandhi who influenced King in this way.

Thoreau was also a huge influence on King, and also a huge influence on Gandhi, so why not say Thoreau was the most influential thinker on the 20th century?

most influencial thinker on the last century?

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