Ok, I am a catholic and I'm pissed off at this. I can see banning them if they take part in gay sex, since any premarital sex is considered a sin by the church, but the church is banning homosexuals from seminaries even if they remain celibate. And now the church, and google news, doesn't know where they stand on the issue.



Priests rail at Vatican's upcoming ban on gays
http://www.newsday.com/news/local/longi ... -headlines

Some would rather resign than accept a rule that would banish all, even the celibate, from the priesthood
BY CAROL EISENBERG
STAFF WRITER

September 23, 2005

A pending Vatican instruction barring homosexual men from the Roman Catholic priesthood even if they are celibate is provoking fury and fear among some priests in New York and Long Island, who worry that good men will be scapegoated and the ranks of priests decimated.

The instruction, which has not yet been published, is said to "grandfather" gay men who have been ordained. Nevertheless, some men who described themselves as chaste homosexual priests say they are considering speaking against the document, or even resigning.

"Do you want to work for an organization that barely tolerates your existence and says that people like you can no longer be accepted?" asked one New York priest who described himself as homosexual and chaste. "What kind of self-hatred is necessary to continue in a place like that?"

While the church has long recommended against ordaining men "affected by the perverse inclination to homosexuality or pederasty," many prelates acknowledge there is a higher percentage of gays in the priesthood in the United States than in the general population - anywhere from 30 percent to 50 percent, according to some estimates - despite the church's teaching that homosexuality is an "intrinsic evil."

Conservatives have tended to blame the priestly sex-abuse crisis on a priesthood riddled with homosexuality, while liberals point to a clerical culture of secrecy. But even some conservatives expressed reservations about a blanket ban.

"For the Catholic Church not to take seriously that there has been a gay subculture in the church would be totally irresponsible," said William Donohue, president of the Catholic League for Religious and Civil Rights. "On the other hand, I don't support a flat prohibition. I think it would demoralize those priests I know who are gay and who are celibate and who are good men.

"While it is true that most of the molesters have been gay, it is also untrue that most gay priests are molesters."

Many priests oppose the targeting of homosexuals.

"I don't think it will solve the problem," said the Rev. Andrew Connolly, pastor of St. Frances de Sales Church in Patchogue. "It seems to paint all homosexuals with the same brush and say they cannot control their sexuality, which I don't think is true."

Experts in sexual abuse also expressed skepticism.

"You can't really screen for homosexuality," said Dr. Martin P. Kafka, associate clinical professor of psychiatry at Harvard Medical School. "Unless they're going to do visual sexual arousal testing, I suspect that all this is going to do is drive this underground."

Kafka, who was part of a panel of experts brought to the Vatican two years ago to discuss scientific findings about molesters, said that while homosexuality is a risk factor for molestation, it is not a cause. The great majority of homosexuals are not abusers, he said.

Spokesmen for the Archdiocese of New York and the Diocese of Rockville Centre, which run seminaries, declined to comment until they have seen the document. Both of those seminaries will be inspected as part of a Vatican-ordered review of seminaries looking for evidence of homosexuality and at how seminarians are prepared for lives of celibacy.

Copyright 2005 Newsday Inc.


Priests support Vatican's anti-gay policy

By Fred Lucas

THE NEWS-TIMES
The Rev. Albert Audette feels reassured about the forthcoming statement from the Vatican regarding homosexual men in the priesthood.

"It's important we serve people on the level that is expected of us," said Audette, a priest at St. Peter Church in Danbury. "People should expect in every case that seminaries educate people for the priesthood, that we move people who aren't homosexuals, and move them to a holy life in the ministry."

Re-Elect Mayor Mark Boughton
A Vatican document expected to be released in coming weeks will prevent gays, even those who remain celibate, from being ordained as priests. The rule was first reported Thursday.

The church has traditionally held only the act of homosexuality is a sin. The new policy will take that a step farther, saying Roman Catholic seminaries should reject those with homosexual tendencies.

The document likely will be released just as a Vatican-mandated evaluation of all U.S. seminaries, ordered in the wake of the U.S. clergy sex-abuse scandal, gets under way.

The American prelate overseeing the evaluations, Archbishop Edwin O'Brien, said earlier this month that most gay candidates for the priesthood struggle to remain celibate and the church must "stay on the safe side" by restricting their enrollment.

He stressed the church is not "hounding" gays out of the priesthood, but it wants to enroll seminarians who can maintain their vows of celibacy.

Audette believes "to some extent" this new policy is a response to the sex-abuse scandal that rocked the church in 2002.

"We've had so many problems in the past with pedophilia, which many people believe is related to homosexuality," Audette said.

The abuse problem was not just a result of gay priests, according to the Rev. Russell Augustine, a priest at St. Patrick's Church in Redding. "Pedophilia and homosexuality are two things," Augustine said.

Augustine wasn't certain celibate gays should be restricted from the priesthood, but said he agrees with the church's longstanding church policy on homosexuality.

Advertisement

Click for Larger Image
FORD-COLONIAL
126 FEDERAL RD
DANBURY
CT 06811
PHONE: 2037483503
"If someone will do their best to live a good, holy life, I would hope they can be a good priest regardless of their background," Augustine said. "It could be difficult if a person is vocal."

The Rev. Douglas Mosey, president of the Holy Apostles seminary in Cromwell, the only Catholic seminary in the state, declined to comment on the matter Thursday. He said he wanted to wait until the document was formally released to the public.

Also, spokesmen for the Bridgeport Diocese and the Archdiocese of Hartford, both reached Thursday, declined to comment on any aspect of the issue.

It was reported the document also will say that already ordained priests, if they have homosexual tendencies, will be "strongly urged to renew their dedication to chastity and a manner of life appropriate to the priesthood."

The new policy "will not be very helpful" for the Catholic Church, said Ian Markham, the dean of theology and ethics at Hartford Seminary, a non-denominational institution.

"There is a significant number of gay clergy in the Roman Catholic Church who are worthwhile priests," Markham said. "Unfortunately Rome, which has been so careful not to confuse sexual identity with activity, has assumed that to be gay means to be active."

Markham, an Episcopalian, believes the Bible should be taken seriously, but that it must be understand in proper context.

"A power, abusive or experimental sexual relationship is wrong," Markham said, but "committed relationships" do not exclude sexual activity.

He rejects the Catholic doctrine that requires a link between sex and procreation. He said this line of reasoning would mean any married couple beyond childbearing age would be engaging in sin if they had sex.

Since it's not a matter that is openly discussed, priests don't know how many homosexuals are in the priesthood.

"I'm sure (there are), like all areas of life. There are gay truck drivers and gay lawyers," Augustine said.

Though it's already difficult to fill the ranks of the priesthood, Augustine isn't sure the new ruling will make it harder.

"Our culture does not encourage people to live a religious lifestyle," he said. "People don't want to give up pleasures of life and take vows of poverty. They want money now to buy everything."

Audette believes if anything, a more clear-cut set of values will encourage more young men to enter the priesthood.

"Most young men are not looking for the left or right, they are looking for the orthodoxy of God and a fulfilling relationship," he said.

Several Vatican documents and letters over the years have said gays or men with homosexual tendencies should not be ordained, regardless of whether they can remain celibate.

A Feb. 2, 1961, Vatican document, "Instruction on the Careful Selection and Training of Candidates for the States of Perfection and Sacred Orders," made clear homosexuals should be barred from the priesthood.

A 1997 letter from the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments says "admission may not take place if there exists a prudent doubt regarding the candidate's suitability."

The Vatican press office announced in November 2002, at the height of the U.S. clergy sex-abuse scandal, that the Congregation for Catholic Education was drawing up guidelines for accepting candidates for the priesthood that would address the question of whether gays should be barred.

The agency said the new document would indicate that men with homosexual tendencies shouldn't be ordained even if they are celibate "because their condition suggests a serious personality disorder which detracts from their ability to serve as ministers."

#

The Associated Press contributed to this story.

How can a celibate person be hetero or homosexual?

If they want to ban gays, that's their right. They've been very clear on how God views homosexuality, it only makes sense to disallow their membership.

While this annoys me, part of me is happy about this, because I hope it hastens the Catholic Church's voyage to irrelevancy. They're extremely short of priests already, and this isn't exactly going to increase those numbers.

Besides, if you're gay, it should be quite obvious to you that Catholocism (at least in its current form) isn't for you.

Are you saying that the church isn't allowed to set it's own rules? Even if they are stupid.... they should be free to do what they want. I don't see people on this board complaining about how Islam treats gays. You don't like what da' Pope is doing, join the Church of England or something.

I am just saying that I don't agree with their stance on it. And I am tired of the Church and catholics being surprised when they find out people think they are anti-gay and close-minded. The majority of priests are celibate, abstinate men. Just because you are gay doesn't mean you can't go without sex. Straight priests do this. I'd love to know what they are basing this decision on. The bible only condemns the act of gay sex, not homosexuality. I was taught to "hate the sin, not the sinner", so if there is no sin (the act of gay sex) then why must the church exclude homosexuals?I see no reason why a homosexual can't be as good a priest as a straight man. Nowhere in the bible does it say gays can't be priests.

This isn't the first time I've disagreed with the church on issues, but this is the biggest one.



i'm one step closer to becoming a non-catholic.

This makes zero logical sense. If the gay priests are celebate, they are not making the "choice" to be homosexual -- they are merely relegated to God's predetermination of sexuality. This "choice" is what the Catholic Church makes a sin. Essentially, the Church is acknowledging that there is no "choice" involved regarding homosexuality v. heterosexuality. Therefore, how in the world can they ban them from a morality standpoint?

No hating, but are you gay?

It is great that we are able to pick and choose what we believe in the Bible.

If you are a priest, you would think you would subscribe to the whole Bible. Not just what suits your fancy.

And how are gay priests that remain celebate not doing that?

The 'Church' is just shuring up support in their hardcore base. It's same logic that makes lefties everywhere spout Bu$h hate everytime they get a mic. You must keep repeating the dogma until it becomes fact. "All animals are created equal" type-thing. All gays are bad, God says. All private hospitals are bad, Michael Moore says. Same preaching, different choir. Worship who you choose.

Are you being serious? The bible does not say immorality is ok. Immoral thoughts are the same as all sins are equal in the eyes of God. Let say it this way....

Priest A is a pedaphile. He does not act on it but when asked, he says that he is and is proud of it. Hmmm.

So the gay priest that is celebate (born gay by the choice of God) is assumed to have immoral thoughts by virtue of being homosexual? I have news for you -- people have immoral thoughts whether they're gay or straight.

EXACTLY! thank you!

and no i am not gay, in fact i even oppose gay marriage (yell at me in another thread please, civil union or whatever you want to call it, just dont call i t marriage)....i just don't like it when "my" church doesn't follow its own rules.

All you Catholics are going to hell anyhow.

Well I am not sure on the view of the Catholic church on this because I am DEFINITELY not a Catholic, but according to the bible. All sin is your choice. You have the freedom to choose sin. If you think you are born that way, well that is definitely a topic for another discussion.

Well informed and very useful post. Thanks!!

I was taught we were born into sin and it was Jesus' sacrifice that saved us.

So are you saying that we do not sin anymore? Jesus died on the cross to give us the choice. I was talking about whether or not you can be born gay or not...

Is gay a choice are something you are born into...(no I do not want to get into that discussion)

No matter what I post, I'd be accused of attacking the church. I figure, fuck it! Give the people what they want.

Well I guess a little brevity never hurt anyone too much....