I've heard this statement used several times, and it is a complete and total lie perpetuated by cynics, capitalists, and people who believe in the Book of Revelations. Where is the proof in this statement? Where can one find a pyschology report that comes to this conclusion? No psychology expert in history has EVER come to this conclusion about human beings.

We are living in a materialistic, individualistic, consumer culture (and world) that encourages selfish behavior, so it is only natural that we all (including myself) think this. It causes us to behave this way.

And it is simply not true.

All that human beings need to survive is water, food, and shelter. Humans survived without currency for over 2 million years, and it is entirely possible that we can do it again.

I challenge anybody who says/thinks otherwise.

I agree, and statements such as those really bother me. What is even more troublesome is the "man is inherently evil" line. Basically, they amount to cop-out statements that allow some people to pass off societal problems on some sort of socially constructed human "flaw" and never strive to change anything, since they think it can't be.
I believe greed is very likely, mostly, a cultural trait and product of certain types of societal practices. Too often, people take the widespread nature of our modern cultural and societal practices and make the mistake of applying these things to humanity, and even to nature, as a whole.

Excellent statement!

Well, I'm going to take the other side of this argument. If you strip man down to nothing and he has to fight to survive, he will do what he can to get all the resources that he needs, regardless of the consequences. When you strip man to the most primal and the most simple existence and then put the added pressure that there isn't much in the way of resource, man changes his ways. I think we're babied and blessed the way we live now, but I would suggest that at least nine times out of ten, if we could, we'd sell each other short. That one guy that doesn't do it will either be destroyed himself or will eventually have to learn that he needs to preserve himself more.

Likewise, without a teaching of morality, I think man would almost have to forget about helping others. There may be some that foster and learn that idea on their own, but for some, without consequence, they'll forget the lessons learned.

God bless,

Jared

Gimme. *grabs thread*

Mine.

I'll take just what I came for,
and I'm out the door again...

I have had many a heated discussion with a friend of mine who is a sincere believer in altruism, while I myself believe that altruism in a pure form does not exist. If you create an abstract model of a humans process of choice, you will see that there is always a calculation being made based on the pros and cons of the action to be taken. A lot of these arguments are subconsious, which is why it's hard to talk about it being good or bad.

Now I believe that unless a person receives a reward for this action (be it material or emotional in nature), this person shall not perform this action. This is not to say that this person is acutely aware of this reward, or the fact that his actions are governed by the rewards.

I mean this in a far from cynical way. I am in no way saying that this is a bad thing. In fact, this process is one of the reasons mankind (and other animals) is able to form communities. Man often chooses to help others in order to strengthen it's own chances of survival.

I dont think humans are "inherintly greedy". but our current society and culture, that we live in and are a part of now, defintely seems that way. but again, the rest of the world isnt exactly like us. i dont think we are born "Greedy" the way our society has grown over many years and centuries, we have turned into greedy people (generally speaking, as a societal whole) but millions of people live differently than us, and will probably continue to live longer than us because of their shared values and cultures.

weve moved away from our basic survival needs. man lived thousands of years living on their basic needs and i imagine were "good". but as time went on, and population grew...something went wrong and we were steered down a different path. now our needs are different and unfortunately..the greedy and "Strong" survive.

Who created society, culture and "civilization"?

The statement alone is rather vague because you need to agree on what defines "greed", which everyone will have a different definition of. That's where I would start off with this thread.

I dont think humans are "inherintly greedy". but our current society and culture, that we live in and are a part of now, defintely seems that way. but again, the rest of the world isnt exactly like us. i dont think we are born "Greedy" the way our society has grown over many years and centuries, we have turned into greedy people (generally speaking, as a societal whole) but millions of people live differently than us, and will probably continue to live longer than us because of their shared values and cultures.

weve moved away from our basic survival needs. man lived thousands of years living on their basic needs and i imagine were "good". but as time went on, and population grew...something went wrong and we were steered down a different path. now our needs are different and unfortunately..the greedy and "Strong" survive.

agreed, are we talking about strictly materialistic greed or overall greed as individuals

As far as definitions go, I was personally speaking of aquiring, or the desire to acquire, as much material wealth or goods that one can have, and doing so beyond the realm of what one needs--and at times, at the expense of others, or even one's own well-being.

In that regard, I would argue that humans have evolved as a species that seeks to accumulate the means of survival and to ensure comfort and security. Fortunately, this goes hand in hand with being a social animal, because often times our greatest survival instinct is to seek help from others and to help them in return. Granted, all of our biological traits and adaptations seem to be muffled by modern needs and technology, but only if you don't really know what you're looking at.

Capitalism and money-driven greed is not evil or wrong, it is simply a bastardization of our innate desire to buffer ourselves from danger. In almost every case, it is more difficult to say no to increased wealth than it is to say yes.

Basically, nature does not allow creatures to be evolutionarily successful if they have fundamentally flawed traits. We have very successful traits, and have so far been very evolutionarily successful. The problem we have today is a systemic problem, a civilizational problem, not a "human" one.

That depends on your definition of each, but the answer in all cases is clearly "humans". I'm not sure what you're trying to get at.


Are humans greedy? That may be a poor choice of words. I think it can be proven that people will horde resources and wealth as an investment for the future, when they might have trouble accessing resources and can use what they've saved in trade. It's a survival mechanism gone amuck.

greed Audio pronunciation of "greed" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (grd)
n.

An excessive desire to acquire or possess more than what one needs or deserves, especially with respect to material wealth: “Many... attach to competition the stigma of selfish greed” (Henry Fawcett).

Okay.

So what does everybody "need" or "deserve"? Is acquiring anything beyond the absolute basic needs (food, water, shelter, as you listed) "greedy"?

Good post, and this last sentence as it sums it all up nicely.

I'd say in excess it is. I mean, do I really need this computer I'm sitting at? I guess that is greedy.

OK, so do you have any set rule for "excess"? Is there some sort of greed that is considered acceptable in your eyes?

I apologize if it seems like I'm nitpicking your thread, but I can't really debate until I understand what you consider good & bad.