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 Post subject: the politics of fat
PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 12:52 pm 
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weigh in on this one (ugh, bad pun)

if you are overweight, do you think you are overweight because you eat too much and don't exercise or are you overweight because you have the obseity "disease"?

if you are overweight, do you feel discriminated against?


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America's Waistline
The politics of fat.
By Laura Kipnis
Posted Friday, Oct. 28, 2005, at 5:28 PM ET

In the war on fat, fat isn't just winning, it's crushing the opposition. A new study reports that in the course of a lifetime, 9 out of 10 men and 7 out of 10 women are going to become overweight. The CDC says that a third of the country is currently obese. This puts a large portion of the nation's population in an unenviable predicament, since antipathy toward the fat, it's frequently remarked, is the last sanctioned form of bigotry. But bigotry is traditionally the plight of minorities, and the fat are fast becoming a majority. So, is America's spreading waistline at least a plus for anti-fat-discrimination efforts?

Perhaps. What is clear is that not all fat citizens are obediently jumping on the diet bandwagon: A growing number are organizing to demand that society transform its bodily ideals, instead of agreeing that they should try to transform their bodies. The best-known of the fat activist groups is the National Association to Advance Fat Acceptance (NAAFA), but there are dozens of others, from the Fat Underground, which devotes itself to disrupting Weight Watchers meetings with pro-fat guerrilla theater, to rabble-rousing zines like Fat!So?, "for people who don't apologize for their size." Read though these Web sites and manifestos and you encounter a political movement in the making, one that a lot of us overfed Americans may soon be thinking about joining.

As in any rights movement, the rhetoric is a mixture of self-empowerment credos and anger. The latter is directed at the diet industry for exploiting the fat (to the tune of $46 billion a year), at society for its ongoing cruelty to the fat, and at the medical establishment for providing condescending substandard care to the fat. A particularly incendiary topic is weight-loss surgery (stomach stapling or more radical measures like rerouting the intestine). Activists regard such procedures as a human rights abuse akin to female genital mutilation. They also frequently cite contrarian strands of medical research, some suggesting that fat really isn't a health hazard, others disputing conventionally accepted disease and mortality statistics.

Contesting the usual origin story about fat—excess calories, individual blame—is high on the activist agenda. The preferred account is that fat is genetic and/or glandular, thus not anyone's fault. Alternatively, fat is caused by the diet industry: "We're getting fatter because of dieting," as one activist puts it. "The way to fatten an animal is to starve it and then re-feed it. Your metabolism slows down when you're eating less. People on diets are predisposing their body to gain more weight."

The origin question is important in the politics of fat because it shapes the approach to policy and advocacy issues. For instance, should the primary battle now be to ensure that obesity is included under the Americans with Disabilities Act? Some argue that this is a misguided strategy, since it turns fat into a disease instead of a rights issue—though if it were a recognized disability, suing over workplace discrimination and access issues would be a lot easier. Access and mobility hurdles provide material for a lot of wrenching chat-room discussions: Sufferers trade coping strategies for an endless variety of daily humiliations or share the longing for less impeded lives—like just being able to get an airplane seatbelt around your waist without a humiliating extension.

Such admissions can also prompt heated responses from the more defiantly fat and proud: Doesn't wanting to lose weight mean giving into self-hatred? (Or, as the militant put it: Should blacks desire to be white and thus give into racism?) The psychological strain of trying to have dignity while lugging a fat body around is all too palpable, despite the pride rhetoric.

Not surprisingly, given such strains, this movement is rife with political contradictions. For instance, one topic you rarely find discussed in activist venues is food. Overeaters Anonymous, a 12-step program modeled on AA, does promote size rights while also linking obesity to overconsumption. But critics worry that treating fat on the model of alcoholism or compulsive gambling means pathologizing it.

Such worries produce certain political blind spots: While the diet industry comes under attack, the $900 billion food industry does not. But as Marion Nestle points out in her convincing treatise, Food Politics (2002), the food industry now produces 3,800 calories a day for every person in the United States (2,200 to 2,500 would be adequate). That's a 500 calorie-a-day increase since 1970. And, as Nestle notes, the American weight spike in the late 1970s exactly corresponded with the invention of supersizing in fast-food marketing.

Unfortunately, focusing on the food industry would put the preferred activist fat origin stories into question—unless the one-third of Americans who are now obese all developed glandular or genetic problems simultaneously in the '70s. Nestle's is a different version of fat politics: Hers spotlights how overconsumption is socially and politically organized, from agribusiness subsidies and price supports to a pattern of hiring lobbyists and corporate execs to run "oversight" agencies like the USDA and the FDA that—go figure—function like industry tools instead. But the real bottom line is that processed food—which generally means higher-calorie food—is more profitable than raw food. Flavor is eliminated, then artificially added (usually meaning fat or sugars); nutrients are lost, then artificially added. The more additives, the higher the price. And we all know where this money trail leads: to our stomachs and hips.

The irony is that while overconsumption may be encouraged, all bodily evidence of it is stigmatized, especially in the romantic sphere. Activist organizations are now stepping in to rectify the problem. NAAFA doubles as a dating site, and Dimensions, a magazine and Web site that celebrates "the fat-positive lifestyle," gears itself to fat admirers (FAs)—those who buck social trends by preferring fat partners. One of the most surprising elements you come across in these venues are the erotic fantasies of "feeders," who like to imagine a fat lover gaining even more weight. Arguments rage about whether such fantasies are harmless fictions, or whether love-struck objects of FA desire might be dangerously manipulated into complying to keep someone's sexual attention. (Though one wonders how different this is from its "normal" counterpart: dieting to attract that special someone.) Clearly our bodies are being reshaped by the food industry's avarice—are our erotic fantasies being reshaped by it, too? Interestingly enough, Dimensions began publishing in 1984, as supersizing was sweeping the country, with the nation itself providing a captive population to corporate overfeeders.

Despite the fact that most of us now apparently face a roly-poly future, a visceral revulsion toward fat persists. It's an interesting form of social hypocrisy, hatred for fatness coupled with a free ride toward the industries that exploit the susceptible. But wait: Is that the sound of corporate responsibility kicking into gear? Yes, in its ever public-spirited way, McDonald's has just announced it will start printing calorie information on its food wrappers. Once you've paid for your Double Quarter Pounder with Cheese, you will learn that you're about to put away 730 calories*. Whatever threat fat poses to the contemporary psyche—especially at the murkiest psychosexual levels where disgust is conjured—the fat themselves end up bearing a stigma that could be redirected to bona fide gluttons—the profiteers. Until that day, the bloating of the population continues apace.

*Correction, Oct. 21, 2005: This article originally and incorrectly stated that the Big Mac With Cheese contains 730 calories. In fact, McDonald's offers no sandwich by that name. The Big Mac contains 560 calories. The Double Quarter Pounder with Cheese has 730.


http://www.slate.com/id/2128999/?GT1=74 ... nueArticle

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 1:31 pm 
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Interesting this would come out the same week they ditch the BMI. Sounds like someone is angling for some special interest dollars.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 2:36 pm 
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Fast food is dangerous, because you dont know what you are eating. You have no control over the ingredients etc. I remember getting a breakfast sandwich from BurgerKing a while back and when I was ordering the guy was like "do you want sauce on that?" I said "What sauce? Its a egg and cheese sandwich!", So I said no. So now they sauce on breakfast sandwiches. And who knows what it was made of, mayonaise, yuk!


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 2:37 pm 
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I would say that it is a combination of both for me.

I do not eat anymore than any "regular" person my size and never eat fast food yet it is difficult for me to stay within a good weight range even with regular excercise. My body seems to prefer a weight that is above average. Several times in my life I have gotten down to a weight that'd I'd prefer and it took an inordinant amount of diet and excercise control. As soon as I let up on both I go right back up the scale.

Basically it's a struggle but I do not have any sympathy for people who are obese. It's not something that happens overnight nor is it impossible to get yourself to a weight, while not ideal, is better than obese.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 2:51 pm 
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I eat too much and don't excercise. There's no disease/genetics that can't be overcome with self control.

I've never felt discriminated against, but I did have to sit out of a ride at an amusement park once b/c the restraint didn't fit over my chest. Meh, what are you gonna do? Build ride seats so big that little people fall out?

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 2:55 pm 
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B wrote:
I eat too much and don't excercise. There's no disease/genetics that can't be overcome with self control.

I've never felt discriminated against, but I did have to sit out of a ride at an amusement park once b/c the restraint didn't fit over my chest. Meh, what are you gonna do? Build ride seats so big that little people fall out?


Well I hate riding on planes because my knees hit the seat in front of me and my shoulders don't fit within the seat range. It sucks, perhaps I should always be bumped up to first class!!!

Seriously though, I think that it is perfectly fair to ask an horribly obese person to pay for an extra airline seat but don't feel the same way if the person is an NFL lineman or something...

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 2:58 pm 
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gogol wrote:
Well I hate riding on planes because my knees hit the seat in front of me and my shoulders don't fit within the seat range. It sucks, perhaps I should always be bumped up to first class!!!

Seriously though, I think that it is perfectly fair to ask an horribly obese person to pay for an extra airline seat but don't feel the same way if the person is an NFL lineman or something...


I used to work with this dude that was fat enough to need an extension for the airplane seatbelt. He was always miserably uncomfortable on the plane, not to mention the people next to him.

I don't know if the airline should have bumped him, but I always thought his employer should consider that a disability and pay for him to sit in first class.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 3:03 pm 
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I over eat - but I run a few miles about 4 times a week. I dont like to run, but my whole family is over weight. they just eat what they want and dont exercise. I know they are miserable. So I can't even go down that road. I will rest when I retire. I am going to eat whatever and smoke cigerettes(pending if that is legal by that time). And enjoy the hell out of my last few years.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 3:18 pm 
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B wrote:
gogol wrote:
Well I hate riding on planes because my knees hit the seat in front of me and my shoulders don't fit within the seat range. It sucks, perhaps I should always be bumped up to first class!!!

Seriously though, I think that it is perfectly fair to ask an horribly obese person to pay for an extra airline seat but don't feel the same way if the person is an NFL lineman or something...


I used to work with this dude that was fat enough to need an extension for the airplane seatbelt. He was always miserably uncomfortable on the plane, not to mention the people next to him.

I don't know if the airline should have bumped him, but I always thought his employer should consider that a disability and pay for him to sit in first class.


You see I don't understand how that's a disability per se. Isn't fat of that magnitude self imposed?

I'm just uncomfortable on the plane, I don't think I mess up other people's rides because of my size. If it's that bad he should have to buy 2 seats.

Seriously though, how many people are there that are that fat and it's not of their own making? Sure there are glandular disorders but that has to be a minority.

Anyone have any idea of how obesity is linked to income? It seems to me the poorer you are the more likely you are to be obese.....is this true or just an asumption?

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 3:22 pm 
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gogol wrote:
B wrote:
gogol wrote:
Well I hate riding on planes because my knees hit the seat in front of me and my shoulders don't fit within the seat range. It sucks, perhaps I should always be bumped up to first class!!!

Seriously though, I think that it is perfectly fair to ask an horribly obese person to pay for an extra airline seat but don't feel the same way if the person is an NFL lineman or something...


I used to work with this dude that was fat enough to need an extension for the airplane seatbelt. He was always miserably uncomfortable on the plane, not to mention the people next to him.

I don't know if the airline should have bumped him, but I always thought his employer should consider that a disability and pay for him to sit in first class.


You see I don't understand how that's a disability per se. Isn't fat of that magnitude self imposed?

I'm just uncomfortable on the plane, I don't think I mess up other people's rides because of my size. If it's that bad he should have to buy 2 seats.

Seriously though, how many people are there that are that fat and it's not of their own making? Sure there are glandular disorders but that has to be a minority.

Anyone have any idea of how obesity is linked to income? It seems to me the poorer you are the more likely you are to be obese.....is this true or just an asumption?


Meh. Does that mean that someone who lops off their own leg w/ a chainsaw doesn't deserve a ramp for his wheelchair?

Besides, it's not just about the fat guy. It's about the people mashed between him and the window. :cry:

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 4:44 pm 
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B wrote:
Meh. Does that mean that someone who lops off their own leg w/ a chainsaw doesn't deserve a ramp for his wheelchair?

Besides, it's not just about the fat guy. It's about the people mashed between him and the window. :cry:


I actually thought about self mutilation but ruled it out because it's so freakin' obscure. Leave it to the libtard to bring up the extreme cases :lol:

My point is the people sitting next to him have no choice and the dude should have to buy 2 seats if he's that big. His fat is invading other's space. That'd be like me smoking a cig and blowing it in your face for the duration of the flight.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 4:46 pm 
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gogol wrote:
I actually thought about self mutilation but ruled it out because it's so freakin' obscure. Leave it to the libtard to bring up the extreme cases :lol:


I wasn't talking about purposeful mutilation, just some idiot who can't work his chainsaw.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 4:51 pm 
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gogol wrote:
B wrote:
gogol wrote:
Well I hate riding on planes because my knees hit the seat in front of me and my shoulders don't fit within the seat range. It sucks, perhaps I should always be bumped up to first class!!!

Seriously though, I think that it is perfectly fair to ask an horribly obese person to pay for an extra airline seat but don't feel the same way if the person is an NFL lineman or something...


I used to work with this dude that was fat enough to need an extension for the airplane seatbelt. He was always miserably uncomfortable on the plane, not to mention the people next to him.

I don't know if the airline should have bumped him, but I always thought his employer should consider that a disability and pay for him to sit in first class.


You see I don't understand how that's a disability per se. Isn't fat of that magnitude self imposed?

I'm just uncomfortable on the plane, I don't think I mess up other people's rides because of my size. If it's that bad he should have to buy 2 seats.

Seriously though, how many people are there that are that fat and it's not of their own making? Sure there are glandular disorders but that has to be a minority.

Anyone have any idea of how obesity is linked to income? It seems to me the poorer you are the more likely you are to be obese.....is this true or just an asumption?


I worked for United airlines for years and we used to get this guy that would always buy 2 seats due to his size...He was quite wealthy also....


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 5:36 pm 
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I work with kids, and one of my first graders has this issue where she is always hungry, no matter how much she eats. She's pretty overweight for her age group, but she does excersize.. like running around outside and she's in ballet and a bunch of stuff. Apparently it's some kind of disease that causes her to never feel full. Her mom has asked me to make sure she only has one serving during meals and snacks.

Sometimes she gets pissed at me when I tell her she can't have seconds. :evil:


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 5:50 pm 
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B wrote:
gogol wrote:
I actually thought about self mutilation but ruled it out because it's so freakin' obscure. Leave it to the libtard to bring up the extreme cases :lol:


I wasn't talking about purposeful mutilation, just some idiot who can't work his chainsaw.

But that's an accident. You don't get incredibly obese by accidentally eating four cheeseburgers a day and accidentally sitting on the couch instead of excercizing. Plus, he can't just regenerate his leg, but a fat person can go on a sensible diet and start walking around the neighborhood or something.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 5:58 pm 
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If you eat well, exercise, and take care of yourself and you're still overweight - fine. Some people's bodies are just like that. My mom's overweight. She eats very healthy (who else would I have gotten my good habits from?) and goes to the gym 3 times a week. It's just how she is. My brother got her metabolism - I got my father's. We can eat whatever we want, whenever, and not gain anything.

However - going to far as to say it's this last great bigotry - fuck off. Seriously. Like there's signs everywhere protesting fat people, or people in government yelling that fat people shouldn't get married. And no - stomach stapling/ bypass surgery is not the same thing as female mutilation - dear god, who came up with that asshat comparison? Maybe I live in the wrong place, but I've never seen anyone dragged out of their home and held down while someone staples their stomach. :roll:

Dieting programs are a big market. There are lots of fat people who want to be skinny. There are also lots of flat women that want bigger boobies. Bald men that want hair. You get my point. If that's what society reflects as a standard of beauty, then that is just how it is. Standards of beauty change with the times, it's just human nature. Don't shit on people's parade because you don't fit some stupid lil 'standard' - few people do. My mom doesn't, but she's been happily married to my dad , through fat and thin, for almost 27 years. And he still thinks she's beautiful, despite who's on the cover of Vogue.

You wanna be fat? Yeay, be fat. Be skinny, be short, tall, black white, blah blah blah. How about, I don't know, being HEALTHY?

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 6:04 pm 
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bart d. wrote:
B wrote:
gogol wrote:
I actually thought about self mutilation but ruled it out because it's so freakin' obscure. Leave it to the libtard to bring up the extreme cases :lol:


I wasn't talking about purposeful mutilation, just some idiot who can't work his chainsaw.

But that's an accident. You don't get incredibly obese by accidentally eating four cheeseburgers a day and accidentally sitting on the couch instead of excercizing. Plus, he can't just regenerate his leg, but a fat person can go on a sensible diet and start walking around the neighborhood or something.


Well, what if it was negligent. He thought it was funny to try throwing the chainsaw in the air. He didn't mean to cut off his leg, but it's sure as hell his fault that he did it.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 6:09 pm 
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B wrote:
bart d. wrote:
B wrote:
gogol wrote:
I actually thought about self mutilation but ruled it out because it's so freakin' obscure. Leave it to the libtard to bring up the extreme cases :lol:


I wasn't talking about purposeful mutilation, just some idiot who can't work his chainsaw.

But that's an accident. You don't get incredibly obese by accidentally eating four cheeseburgers a day and accidentally sitting on the couch instead of excercizing. Plus, he can't just regenerate his leg, but a fat person can go on a sensible diet and start walking around the neighborhood or something.


Well, what if it was negligent. He thought it was funny to try throwing the chainsaw in the air. He didn't mean to cut off his leg, but it's sure as hell his fault that he did it.

:? A person that stupid would probably end up choking on a pretzel or something before the missing leg would become an issue.

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