Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 7:19 pm Posts: 39068 Location: Chapel Hill, NC, USA Gender: Male
Apparently there are threats to arrest this woman as a threat to homeland security, but that is, as of yet, unverified. It's pretty obvious that Bush doesn't want to talk to this woman, but what can he do without looking like a total fuck? This should be a fun story to follow.
Quote:
Fallen soldier's mother vows vigil to see Bush By Richard W. Stevenson The New York Times
TUESDAY, AUGUST 9, 2005 CRAWFORD, Texas President George W. Bush draws antiwar protesters just about wherever he goes, but few generate the kind of attention that Cindy Sheehan has had since she drove down the winding road toward his ranch here over the weekend and sought to tell him face to face that he must pull all U.S. troops out of Iraq now.
Sheehan's son, Casey, was killed last year in Iraq, after which she became an antiwar activist. She says that she and her family met with the president two months later at Fort Lewis in Washington state. But when she was blocked by the police a few miles from Bush's 1,600 acres, or 650 hectares, in Texas on Saturday, the 48-year-old Sheehan, of Vacaville, California, was transformed into a media phenomenon, the new face of opposition to the Iraq conflict at a moment when public opinion is in flux and the politics of the war have grown more complicated for the president and the Republican Party.
Sheehan has vowed to camp out on the spot until Bush will see her, even if it means spending all of August under a broiling sun by the dusty road. Early Sunday afternoon, 25 hours after she was turned back as she approached Bush's Prairie Chapel Ranch, Sheehan stood red-faced from the heat at the makeshift campsite that she vowed would be her home until the president relented or left to go back to Washington.
A reporter from The Associated Press had just finished interviewing her. CBS was taping a segment on her. She had already appeared on CNN, and was scheduled to appear live on ABC on Monday morning. Reporters from across the country were calling her cellphone.
"It's just snowballed," she said beside a small stand of trees and a patch of shade that contained a sleeping bag, some candles, a jar of nuts and a few other supplies. "We have opened up a debate in the country."
Seeking to head off exactly the phenomenon that now seems to be unfolding, the administration sent two senior officials out from the ranch on Saturday afternoon to meet with her. But Sheehan said after talking to the officials - Stephen Hadley, the national security adviser, and Joe Hagin, a deputy White House chief of staff - that she would not back down in her demand to see the president.
Her success in drawing so much attention to her message - and leaving the White House in a face-off with an opponent who had to be treated very gently even as she aggressively attacked the president and his policies - seemed to stem from the confluence of several forces.
The deaths last week of 20 marines from a single battalion had focused public attention on the unremitting pace of casualties in Iraq, providing Sheehan an opening to deliver her message that no more lives should be given to the war. At the same time, polls that show falling approval for Bush's handling of the war left him open to challenge in a way that he was not when the nation appeared to be more strongly behind him.
It did not hurt her cause that she staged her protest, which she said was more or less spontaneous, at the doorstep of the White House press corps, which spends each August in Crawford with little to do, minimal access to Bush and his aides and eagerness for any new story.
As the mother of an Army specialist who was killed at age 24 in the Sadr City section of Baghdad on April 4, 2004, Sheehan certainly has a compelling story. She is also articulate, aggressive in delivering her message and armed with a story most White House reporters had not heard before: how Bush handles himself when he meets behind closed doors with the families of soldiers killed in Iraq.
The White House has released few details of such sessions, which Bush conducts regularly as he travels the country, but it generally portrays them as emotional and an opportunity for the president to share the grief of the families. In Sheehan's telling, though, Bush did not know her son's name when she and her family met with him in June 2004 at Fort Lewis. Bush, she said, acted as if he were at a party and behaved disrespectfully toward her by referring to her as "Mom" throughout the meeting.
By Sheehan's account, Bush said to her that he could not imagine losing a loved one like an aunt or uncle or cousin. Sheehan said she broke in and told Bush that Casey was her son, and that she thought he could imagine what it would be like because he has two daughters and that he should think about what it would be like sending them off to war.
"I said, 'Trust me, you don't want to go there,"' Sheehan said, recounting her exchange with the president. "He said, 'You're right, I don't.' I said, 'Well, thanks for putting me there."'
Asked about Sheehan's statements, Trent Duffy, a spokesman for the White House, said Sunday: "The president knows one of his most important responsibilities is to comfort the families of the fallen. That is why he has personally met with and grieved with hundreds of families who have lost a loved one who made the ultimate sacrifice."
_________________ "Though some may think there should be a separation between art/music and politics, it should be reinforced that art can be a form of nonviolent protest." - e.v.
Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2004 10:46 pm Posts: 9617 Location: Medford, Oregon Gender: Male
I was going to post about her over the weekend, but I foresaw the eventual exchange and decided it probably wasn't worth it. Needless to say, she has my complete support. And I see her as a potential focal point for a scattered anti-war movement, especially if she keeps herself in the media. Of course, Fox will have to skip covering her for their non-stop coverage of absolutely nothing happening in Aruba.
One thing that I did find striking was her account of meeting the president in July of 2004. And I already know in advance that many here will dismiss it as lies because she doesn't like him, but what she had to say didn't surprise me at all. It was at a gathering of the families of fallen soldiers, and Bush met with each family separately. He entered the room in what she described as a jovial manner, and asked "Who are we here to honor?" You'd think he'd get briefed on the soldier's name before entering the room, but whatever. He referred to her as "Mom" the whole time, and refused to look at pictures of her son. He talks about feeling families' pain, but I don't buy it. Her group's website is realvoices.org.
_________________ Deep below the dunes I roved Past the rows, past the rows Beside the acacias freshly in bloom I sent men to their doom
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 7:19 pm Posts: 39068 Location: Chapel Hill, NC, USA Gender: Male
Serjical Strike wrote:
http://realvoices.org/rv/index.html
_________________ "Though some may think there should be a separation between art/music and politics, it should be reinforced that art can be a form of nonviolent protest." - e.v.
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 7:19 pm Posts: 39068 Location: Chapel Hill, NC, USA Gender: Male
The President wrote:
Just because your kid died in Iraq doesn't mean the President is going to sit down with you for dinner. There would be an awful long line if it did.
Maybe if he already met with you and behaved like an ass ...
_________________ "Though some may think there should be a separation between art/music and politics, it should be reinforced that art can be a form of nonviolent protest." - e.v.
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 12:39 pm Posts: 3306 Location: 4336 miles west of St. Albans
I feel sorry for her that she lost her son. But she's turned this into politics. Who's right? Who's wrong? And look who's jumping on the bandwagon of course. If she doesn't already know, she's a tool for these people and their organizations, I'm hoping she will come to see this soon.
_________________ But if home is where the heart is
then there's stories to be told.
No you don't need a doctor
no one else can heal your soul.
Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2004 11:15 pm Posts: 25452 Location: Under my wing like Sanford & Son Gender: Male
Estranged wrote:
I feel sorry for her that she lost her son. But she's turned this into politics. Who's right? Who's wrong? And look who's jumping on the bandwagon of course. If she doesn't already know, she's a tool for these people and their organizations, I'm hoping she will come to see this soon.
I don't think she's become a tool at all, and has handled it with dignity and resolve. I personally admire her because she's not willing to put up with the same old bullshit. I hope she gets her meeting, or at least an apology.
By the way, the same article is posted at least three times in the first post. Can a mod please edit that?
_________________ Now that god no longer exists, the desire for another world still remains.
Joined: Fri Jan 21, 2005 1:30 am Posts: 413 Location: back home in Mass.
Though she may have turned this into politics, I support her. She is only asking why her son had to die, something that Bush cannot answer since his reasons for war have shifted as the political climate has changed.
First it was because Iraq posed a threat due to WMD. When no WMD's were found, it was to bring freedom to the Iraqi people. THen it was so we didnt have to fight the terrorists at home. Who knows what the next reason will be? All this woman is asking for is a legitmate reason why her son had to die and Bush has not given a clear and coherent reason.
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 12:39 pm Posts: 3306 Location: 4336 miles west of St. Albans
leftofcenter wrote:
Though she may have turned this into politics, I support her. She is only asking why her son had to die, something that Bush cannot answer since his reasons for war have shifted as the political climate has changed. First it was because Iraq posed a threat due to WMD. When no WMD's were found, it was to bring freedom to the Iraqi people. THen it was so we didnt have to fight the terrorists at home. Who knows what the next reason will be? All this woman is asking for is a legitmate reason why her son had to die and Bush has not given a clear and coherent reason.
Let's go back even further and ask the question, why did her son join the military? I mean what it boils down to is why her son made that decision. He did sign an oath and committment no matter what the reasons are and were for any action taken by the U.S. Government. He should have known that.
_________________ But if home is where the heart is
then there's stories to be told.
No you don't need a doctor
no one else can heal your soul.
Joined: Fri Jan 21, 2005 1:30 am Posts: 413 Location: back home in Mass.
Estranged wrote:
leftofcenter wrote:
Though she may have turned this into politics, I support her. She is only asking why her son had to die, something that Bush cannot answer since his reasons for war have shifted as the political climate has changed. First it was because Iraq posed a threat due to WMD. When no WMD's were found, it was to bring freedom to the Iraqi people. THen it was so we didnt have to fight the terrorists at home. Who knows what the next reason will be? All this woman is asking for is a legitmate reason why her son had to die and Bush has not given a clear and coherent reason.
Let's go back even further and ask the question, why did her son join the military? I mean what it boils down to is why her son made that decision. He did sign an oath and committment no matter what the reasons are and were for any action taken by the U.S. Government. He should have known that.
But that is not the issue. He probably knew the inherent risk in joining the Army. The issue is why did he have to go to Iraq to fight and die. What is the reasoning (again a legitmate reason-not one that changes every few months) why her son went to Iraq and died? What purpose did his death serve? This is the answer she is looking for (as are about 1800 other families)
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 12:39 pm Posts: 3306 Location: 4336 miles west of St. Albans
leftofcenter wrote:
But that is not the issue. He probably knew the inherent risk in joining the Army. The issue is why did he have to go to Iraq to fight and die. What is the reasoning (again a legitmate reason-not one that changes every few months) why her son went to Iraq and died? What purpose did his death serve? This is the answer she is looking for (as are about 1800 other families)
Point taken. But for her to say Bush killed her son is outrageous. And for her to now switch her story about her view of Bush and their original meeting is quite disturbing. Sounds like she has an agenda. And a agenda that's bringing out some extremist from the left. That's whi I believe she's become their tool.
_________________ But if home is where the heart is
then there's stories to be told.
No you don't need a doctor
no one else can heal your soul.
Joined: Fri Jan 21, 2005 1:30 am Posts: 413 Location: back home in Mass.
Estranged wrote:
leftofcenter wrote:
But that is not the issue. He probably knew the inherent risk in joining the Army. The issue is why did he have to go to Iraq to fight and die. What is the reasoning (again a legitmate reason-not one that changes every few months) why her son went to Iraq and died? What purpose did his death serve? This is the answer she is looking for (as are about 1800 other families)
Point taken. But for her to say Bush killed her son is outrageous. And for her to now switch her story about her view of Bush and their original meeting is quite disturbing. Sounds like she has an agenda. And a agenda that's bringing out some extremist from the left. That's whi I believe she's become their tool.
I'll agree to disagree about Bush's responsibilty in killing her son, but where does it say she has changed her story about her original story about her meeting with Bush? I think she has a legitimate beef if how Bush acted towards her is the truth. I would not surprise me in Bush didn't exactly act with tact when addressing her in 2004.
Also, I don't think it is just the left that is beginning to move against the war. I believe some republicans themselves are starting to come out against the war. I don't think being against this war (at this point) is strictly a lefty/righty debate.
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 12:39 pm Posts: 3306 Location: 4336 miles west of St. Albans
leftofcenter wrote:
I'll agree to disagree about Bush's responsibilty in killing her son, but where does it say she has changed her story about her original story about her meeting with Bush? I think she has a legitimate beef if how Bush acted towards her is the truth. I would not surprise me in Bush didn't exactly act with tact when addressing her in 2004.
Also, I don't think it is just the left that is beginning to move against the war. I believe some republicans themselves are starting to come out against the war. I don't think being against this war (at this point) is strictly a lefty/righty debate.
After she met with Bush she said the meeting went good. Now she's telling something different. Why not come out and say this right after the meeting? Why wait like three weeks and say Bush was insincere during the meeting?
And what I meant abut extremist was more directed at people like George Soros, Michael Moore, and Air America. There are both Republicans and Democrats now against this war which is good. But I was talking mainly about the extremist on the left such as those I named.
_________________ But if home is where the heart is
then there's stories to be told.
No you don't need a doctor
no one else can heal your soul.
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 7:19 pm Posts: 39068 Location: Chapel Hill, NC, USA Gender: Male
Quote:
Bush to mother who lost son in Iraq: 'I grieve' By Steve Holland
CRAWFORD, Texas (Reuters) - President George W. Bush said on Thursday he sympathized with a mother who lost a son in Iraq and has been leading a protest vigil near his ranch, but that he would not pull U.S. troops from Iraq now as she has demanded.
"I grieve for every death," Bush said as Cindy Sheehan remained camped out about five miles away. For six days she has been demanding Bush meet with her about her son, Casey Austin Sheehan, an Army specialist killed in combat in Baghdad in April 2004.
"It breaks my heart to think about a family weeping over the loss of a loved one. I understand the anguish that some feel about the death that takes place," Bush said.
But, he added, "pulling the troops out would send a terrible signal to the enemy."
White House officials said Bush had no plans to meet with Sheehan, saying he met with her in June 2004. National security adviser Stephen Hadley and deputy White House chief of staff Joe Hagin met her on Saturday, the day she started her vigil.
Hadley told reporters on Thursday that Bush understands Sheehan's views on Iraq are deeply felt, but that "he just respectfully disagrees." The White House released a list showing Bush has held 24 meetings with 900 family members of 272 troops killed in Iraq and Afghanistan since January 2002.
In response, Sheehan said the best way Bush can show compassion is by meeting with her and other mothers and family members gathered alongside Prairie Chapel Road in Crawford.
"Our sons made the ultimate sacrifice and we want answers. All we're asking is that he sacrifice an hour out of his five-week vacation to talk to us, before the next mother loses her son in Iraq. He says he is spreading peace. How can you spread peace by killing people?" she said in a statement issued through Fenton Communications, a public relations firm.
Sheehan, 48, of Vacaville, California, and her supporters hope if they speak out, more Americans will demand that U.S. troops are brought home from Iraq.
Bush answered questions at his Texas ranch after meeting with Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, Vice President Dick Cheney, Gen. Richard Myers, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, and national security adviser Stephen Hadley.
Bush said he had made no final decision on increasing U.S. troop strength in Iraq to help improve security during October elections, but he noted pointedly that having more troops in place helped provide stability during the Iraq elections last January and during Afghanistan elections.
"It seemed to have helped create security, and I know the secretary of defense is analyzing that possibility," Bush told reporters.
The United States has roughly 138,000 troops in Iraq. Pentagon officials have said the number could go up this fall to bolster security for the Iraqi elections.
He sought to not raise Americans' hopes about substantial troop reductions next year, although military officials have talked openly about the possibility.
And Bush said he believed Iraqis would meet an August 15 deadline for drafting a constitution.
But with Americans increasingly questioning the U.S. involvement in Iraq, Bush tried to address Sheehan's concerns and maintain U.S. support for the troops.
"Listen, I sympathize with Mrs. Sheehan," Bush said. "She feels strongly about her position. And she has every right in the world to say what she believes. This is America."
He said he has thought "long and hard" about her demand to "get out of Iraq now" and strongly disagreed, saying a premature withdrawal would betray the Iraqis just as they are being trained to defend themselves and allow for a U.S. pullout.
"Oh, I know it's hard for some Americans to see that progress, but we are making progress. ... Withdrawing before the mission is complete would send a signal to those who wonder about the United States' commitment to spreading freedom," he said.
_________________ "Though some may think there should be a separation between art/music and politics, it should be reinforced that art can be a form of nonviolent protest." - e.v.
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 7:19 pm Posts: 39068 Location: Chapel Hill, NC, USA Gender: Male
The President wrote:
So uh, what do you guys expect Bush to do?
Talk to her.
Someone in the future wrote:
But, B, he can't talk to every mother. Just because her son died, doesn't mean she gets to talk to the president. He can't meet with 1800 mothers of the soldiers who died because of his war.
When 1800 mothers are lined up outside the White House, I'll reconsider. Right now, it's 1.
_________________ "Though some may think there should be a separation between art/music and politics, it should be reinforced that art can be a form of nonviolent protest." - e.v.
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