After I read this article about what Senator Joe Lieberman said, it scared the shit out of me. Now I'm going to tie this to Nostradamus and please keep an open mind, even if you don't believe a damn phrophecy he comes up with. I will give you what Joe said, and then I'll give you some interpretations that philosophers have of Nostradamus. Now just bare with me on all this.

Democratic Senator Joseph Lieberman said the US and China are headed for military conflict if they fail to cooperate on finding alternative energy sources

AP , WASHINGTON
Friday, Dec 02, 2005,Page 1

Advertising A prominent Democratic senator said on Wednesday that a US failure to cooperate with China on finding alternative energy sources puts two powerful militaries on a collision course over dwindling world oil reserves.
Senator Joseph Lieberman said it's urgent for both countries to talk about cooling down their quest for oil and avoid the military friction that search might cause.

"We've got to start those discussions before the race for oil becomes as hot and dangerous as the nuclear arms race between the US and Soviet Union," Lieberman said in a speech at the Council on Foreign Relations.

"These are two nations following quite similar international oil acquisition policies ... If we let it go, this could end up in real military conflict, not just economic conflict," he said.

China, Lieberman said, has scoured the world in an effort to lock up energy supplies, signing oil deals with, among other countries, Sudan and Iran, which "makes China an ally of nations that are openly hostile with us."

China is also building a strong navy, he said, both to intimidate Taiwan and to defend its oil supply lanes. And Beijing's regional competition for oil and gas with Japan puts it at odds with a strong US ally, he said.

"All of this is aggressive but, from the Chinese point of view, quite logical behavior for a nation dependent on oil to continue the vigorous economic growth that's necessary to bring more and more of the well over a billion Chinese into the modern economy," Lieberman said. "China, bottom-line, needs assured access to ... sources of oil."


Now some Nostradamus Interpretations

Out of the country of Greater Arabia Shall be born a strong master of Mohammed,
He will enter Europe wearing a blue turban.
He will be the terror of mankind.
Never more horror.

Here, Nostradamus says that a man from Greater Arabia will lead his forces on an invasion through Europe. This invasion will start a third world war that will be far worse than all the other wars put together. When will all this take place? In one quatrain Nostradamus gives us an exact date in which the war will be well under way.
In the year 1999 and seven months
From the sky will come the great King of Terror.
He will bring back to life the [b]King of the Mongols;
Before and after war reigns.

Nostradamus predicts the war will begin shortly before the year 1999. It doesn't make much sense to this author, but many are now saying that the 'war' was set 'in motion' in 1999, and now after Septermeber 11th these things are going to come true... as we are now 'at war with terror.' Interpret it how you will. He also tells us how long the war will last.

The war will last seven and twenty years. (so 27 years)

KING OF THE MONGOLS
John Hogue, author of Nostradamus – The Complete Prophecies and several other books on prophecy, theorized that the “King of Terror” could be the People’s Republic of China and that the “King of the Mongols” it will bring back to life is Genghis Khan. He doesn’t literally mean that the person of Genghis Khan would be resurrected from the dead, but he notes that in 1990, in a major propaganda campaign, the leaders of the People’s Republic of China restored Khan to his “rightful” place in Chinese history. So what’s the significance? “Genghis Kahn united the Mongolians of the Central Asian steppes,” Hogue writes, “into an all-conquering army that forged the largest land empire in history. The vast Islamic western wing of his empire included modern-day Iraq, Iran, Pakistan, and the Central Asian republics of the former Soviet Union. Tens of millions died in the bloody conquests initiated by [Genghis Khan] and his successors. According to the prophet, Genghis Khan and his empire are now returning: the warlord has been brought back to life.”

At the Great King of Terror website (which is no longer working!), they believed the “King of the Mongols” will be a world leader with the military power of Genghis Khan – namely, the Antichrist.

Yada, yada, yada

Was just reading about this in Chapter 3 of The Long Emergency. China is comming online with it's need for oil late in the game. This is a very serious and imminent problem for China and the rest of the world for that matter.

Thank God somebody besides me thinks this is a problem. I too can make a case for a third world war. To make it overly simple, it will be western nations against China, some OPEC countries, and a socialist bloc of South American countries (one day, I'll have my case for this war in written word. It's all in my head right now ).

And then I think about what Einstein said: "I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones."

It aint just you. The military has thousands of scenerios for this conflict. Why do you think Chavez is so paranoid? He knows what is coming should the US and China fight. I have always found it hilarious how people are quick to accuse the US of misdeads, yet shy away from pointing out the obvious... China/Iran/Sudan is far far worse than anything we have yet seen (worse than Austria/Germany).. because they won't fight like we "have to".

Go google "project 863".

The winners will be the Russians.

Maybe if we focussed our attention on finding alternative energy production methods, we could avoid a war that will lead to the winners having to figure out what alternative fuels they'll be using within a genration ANYWAY.

I believe that an alternate fuel source will emerge within the next 5 years that will hopefully end this debate. It will be a flux capacitor.

del

Nice first post. On a different note, this thread scares me. We've got enough war already as it is.

I can't take any article seriously that has Nostradamus in it

This is also how we win the war on terror. Bankrupt the Arabs.


The real scary thing is that China WILL use nukes if conventional or 863 weapons fail. They have said so many, many times.


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China: The nanotech superpower of the 21st Century

By Lev Navrozov
SPECIAL TO WORLD TRIBUNE.COM

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Lev Navrozov emigrated from the Soviet Union in 1972 He settled in New York City where he quickly learned that there was no market for his eloquent and powerful English language attacks on the Soviet Union. To this day, he writes without fear or favor or the conventions of polite society. He chaired the "Alternative to the New York Times Committee" in 1980, challenged the editors of the New York Times to a debate (which they declined) and became a columnist for the New York City Tribune. His columns are today read in both English and Russian.


December 5, 2005

On Monday, 11/21, the New York Times duly carried on its front page a column of four big photographs in color of President Bush against the background of the crimson wall of the Great Hall of the People, Beijing, Sunday, 11/20/05. On the top photograph he is walking toward a door to exit. On the next photograph he finds that the door is locked-it is not an exit door. On the third photograph he is shown an exit door. And on the fourth photograph he exits through it.

Judging by the space and the prominence in color given by the New York Times to the event, this was the major world news on Sunday, 11/20/05.

Attached to the column of four photographs is a verbal report in which President Bush says that the Sino-U.S. relationship is "good, vibrant, strong."

On previous occasions, the previous Chinese dictators (sorry to use such a non-PC word) made token "human rights" gestures on the eve of the presidential visit like the release of some dissident whose arrest was especially notorious. Not Hu Jintao! Not a single token "human rights" gesture! Condi Rice offered a "brilliant" interpretation:

I expect that this leadership will understand [when?], as the former leadership did, that these are issues of concern to the president, concern to Americans, and that we'd keep pressing on human rights.

Can you imagine how the dictator (excuse me!) Hu fears Condi's "pressing on human rights"! We'll "keep" it! Surely Hu is scared to death! He will replace his dictatorship with "freedom and democracy"!

Incidentally, speaking shortly before to the Washington-based Center of Strategic and International Studies, Shintao Ishihara, Governor of Tokyo, said that "Eastern countries"-Japan, Australia, India, and South Korea-believe that the U.S.-led war in Iraq has pointed to the U.S. weakness even in low-tech warfare. Mr. Ishihara said that U.S. ground forces are "extremely incompetent."

You can imagine how scared Hu was by Ms. Rice "pressing on human rights."

Another remarkable detail in the report of the New York Times attached to its four photographs in color, illustrating President Bush's exit:

Mr. Bush, as he has through much of his trip to Asia, continued to focus attention on Iraq: Meeting with reporters, he talked at length about the arguments that have consumed Washington in his absence, saying that members of the House or Senate who oppose his approach to Iraq. . . .

China is a geostrategic tiger as compared with Iraq, a local gnat, as I wrote way back in 2002. Now, Mr. Bush's head was, on 11/20/05, in the tiger's maw. But "his thoughts continued to focus" on how to defeat the gnat.

In contrast to the New York Times, I do not have in China newspaper correspondents about whom the Chinese dictator will think twice before arresting them if they have said something that is not, in his opinion, politically correct. So I have to conceal the names of my correspondents, who on 11/20/05 reported to me the success in China of Eric Drexler, the American founder of nanotechnology, to whom the U.S. Congress has not allocated a cent for the Foresight Institute he founded in 1986. Why this scorn? Drexler's book of 1986 contains a chapter entitled "Engines of Destruction" about nano superweapons, making nuclear weapons obsolete.

Some U.S. businessmen in nonmilitary (commercial) fields of nanotechnology, who have been receiving allocations from the U.S. Congress, have been afraid that if Drexler's military warnings are taken seriously, the attempt to develop molecular nano weapons as a deterrent ahead of China will take a lion's share of congressional nanotechnological allocations. Hence Drexler began to be personally denigrated in the United States as a charlatan who invented the possibility of nano weapons. Just as Einstein invented the possibility of nuclear weapons in his letter to Roosevelt in 1939? Oh no! Einstein was a scientist of genius, of course! As every reference book suggests today! But Drexler did not receive even a Nobel Prize! As one of his American detractors put it, his theory of molecular nano weapons is only good to scare little children!

On the other hand, Drexler's book of 1986 is on websites in China, and on 11/20/05 one of them [oursci.org] posted an article in Chinese one paragraph of which reads, in translation into English, as follows:

This book is the masterpiece of K. Eric Drexler, father of nanotechnology. It was first translated into Chinese and was authorized [!] by the author [!] to publish on the Internet. Originally published on Knowledge of Ships Tribunal [the Military section of Sina.com, one of the largest Web portals in China], it was authorized by the translator to publish on oursci.org.

The what-is-nanotechnology page of nanovin.com eulogizes Drexler and all his disciples and associates and comes out against his American detractors.

The ultimate step for Bottom-Up [a phrase derived from the talk of Richard Feynman in 1959] Nanotechnology is called "molecular nanotechnology," or "molecular manufacturing," which has been brought to the forefront by the researcher K. Eric Drexler. True molecular factories are envisioned, capable of creating any material through a process of precisely controlled exponential assembly of atoms and molecules. When one realizes that the totality of our perceptible environment is constructed of a limited alphabet of different constituents (atoms), which give rise to creations as diverse as water, diamond, or bone, it is easy to imagine the nearly limitless potential which molecular assembly offers.

Some partisans of a more conservative vision of Nanotechnology contest the feasibility of molecular manufacturing, and thus hold a conflicting long-term view to that of Eric Drexler, the foremost proponent of molecular manufacturing theory. It is important to keep this dissention in perspective however, because most of the researchers involved feel that the maturity of Nanotechnology is a positive development. . . .

Says the Chinese website:

To try to suffocate the development of this great post-industrial revolution currently taking shape for extremist ethical reasons, or for anti-apocalyptic prudence, would be a grave error in strategy, because more than ever world competition will continue to develop, and a new nanotechnological superpower may appear, notably in Asia.

That is, the new nanotechnological superpower will be China, a country in Asia!

The Chinese website recommends 5 websites in the field. The first is Drexler's Foresight Institute. Then follow two Chinese website (nanovip.com and nanotech.now). The fourth is CRN. Few Americans know that the acronym means "Center for Responsible Nanotechnology," founded by Drexler's associates. The final listing is "Howard Lovy.blog."

I know Lovy because we met at a Foresight Institute conference last year. But for those Chinese to know him! This is really "the United States in China"!

Not that the Chinese search for molecular nano superweapons began on 11/20/05. On June 15, 1996, the Chinese magazine "National Defense" carried an article entitled "Nanotech Weapons in Future Warfare" by Major General Sun Bailin of the Chinese Academy of Military Science. No U.S. military man has ever published such an article, though surely the United States is less secret, or more "transparent," than the dictatorship of China.

So, while President Bush spent the Sunday of 11/20/05 in China, talking about Iraq and, if we are to believe Condi Rice, "pressing on human rights," time was not wasted by those Chinese who were looking forward to the Chinese superweapon that Drexler described in 1986, the year when Program 863 was founded in China to develop post-nuclear superweapons in seven fields. Today 50 percent of Chinese students study nanotechnology, while the figure for the United States is 5, the population of China exceeding that of the United States more than four times. It seems that instead of any progress in human rights in China, about which the Governor of Tokyo said, "I believe such predictions are totally wrong, Condi Rice will discover the Chinese ultimatum to the West and its allies, confronting them with (nano) annihilation, and they will be lucky if they surrender unconditionally.