Ministers at the climate change conference in Montreal have made a series of breakthroughs in plans to combat global warming.
On the conference's last day, Kyoto Protocol signatories agreed to extend the treaty on emissions reductions beyond its 2012 deadline.
And a broader group of countries including the US agreed to non-binding talks on long-term measures.
The US had refused to accept any deal leading to commitments to cuts.
Earlier, former President Bill Clinton said the US approach was "flat wrong".
After Mr Clinton's remarks - which were warmly received - the official US team appeared to shift its position.
'Map for the future'
The BBC's Tim Hirsch in Montreal says the deal was finally agreed in a mood of some euphoria after a last-minute procedural objection by the Russians held up the talks for several hours.
Formal talks can now begin over the precise targets which will be set when the first phase of the Kyoto agreement expires in 2012.
Our correspondent says that, crucially, it sets the scene for discussing how large developing countries like India and China could be brought into the system of limiting greenhouse gas emissions.
Canadian Environment Minister Stephane Dion, who is hosting the conference, described the agreement as "a map for the future, the Montreal Action Plan, the MAP".
Last week delegates finalised a rule book for Kyoto, formally making it fully operational after years of negotiation and ratification.
The 1997 treaty commits industrialised countries to cut their combined carbon emissions to 5% below 1990 levels by 2008-12.
'Meet and surpass'
The US appears to have been stung by negative coverage in the US media after it walked out in protest at Canadian attempts to get it to accept mandatory targets, as well as by Mr Clinton's strong comments , our correspondent says.
Mr Clinton attacked a central plank of the Bush administration's resistance to targets for cutting emissions - that it would harm the US economy.
If the US "had a serious, disciplined effort to apply on a large scale existing clean energy and energy conservation technologies... we could meet and surpass the Kyoto targets easily in a way that would strengthen, not weaken, our economies," he said.
Global warming and melting ice, he suggested, could lead to a future climate conference in Canada being held on "a raft somewhere".
The US has still not budged on its opposition to the Kyoto treaty, and faced heavy criticism for its stance.
Jennifer Morgan, climate-change expert for environmental group WWF, said US negotiator Harlan Watson's decision to leave the talks overnight showed "just how willing the US administration is to walk away from a healthy planet and its responsibilities".
The US rejected the criticism.
"If you want to talk about global consciousness, I'd say there's one country that is focused on action... dialogue... co-operation and... helping the developing world, and that's the United States," said state department spokesman Adam Ereli in Washington.
Despite the row, environmentalists said the conference had been in most respects a success, reaching agreements on how to quantify gas emissions and how to penalise nations for failing to meet Kyoto targets.
_________________ Oh, the flowers of indulgence and the weeds of yesteryear, Like criminals, they have choked the breath of conscience and good cheer. The sun beat down upon the steps of time to light the way To ease the pain of idleness and the memory of decay.
Interesting, didn't Bill Clinton and 99 other senators at the time vote against Kyoto in 1999? I'm not sure on specifics...but...
President Clinton signed Kyoto, but he did not send it to the Senate because he knew he did not have the votes, if put to a vote in the Senate he knew the Kyoto Protocol would face resounding defeat.
How many of the current signees are gonna make the deadline? 5? What a joke.
It doesn't matter anyway. As the magnetic poles shift, the earth's climate will change. If the politicnas were smart, they would work to mititgate the effects in stead off doing nothing (like Kyoto).
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 1:09 pm Posts: 13868 Location: Norn Iron
broken_iris wrote:
How many of the current signees are gonna make the deadline? 5? What a joke.
It doesn't matter anyway. As the magnetic poles shift, the earth's climate will change. If the politicnas were smart, they would work to mititgate the effects in stead off doing nothing (like Kyoto).
Yup. Have been for roughly the same amount of time as the recent global warming trend. Of course the effects are "open to debate" in the scientific community. But I am sure that the changes in the field that reduces the amount of radiation the earth receives from the Sun has nothing to do with accelerating global warming.
Kyoto is simply stupid. It's waste of time and resources that will do nothing. China by itself will make up for all the emissions cuts the EU is attempting (and failing) to make.
If we learn anything from Katrina and the Tsunami, it should be that we need to prepare for the inevitable, NOT sit on our asses and point fingers. Use the money wasted on Kyoto to build sea walls, dams, and desalinization plants.
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2004 1:54 am Posts: 7189 Location: CA
Juvenal wrote:
broken_iris wrote:
How many of the current signees are gonna make the deadline? 5? What a joke.
It doesn't matter anyway. As the magnetic poles shift, the earth's climate will change. If the politicnas were smart, they would work to mititgate the effects in stead off doing nothing (like Kyoto).
The poles are shifting?
I belive that they do so with some regularity. I believe they can use this trend to help identify the age of rock layers.
I think that is true. The difference is the rate at which the shift is taking place is "unexpected." Again, no one seems to be willing to say global warming, but:
"The strength of the Earth's magnetic shield was also found to have declined 10 percent over the past 150 years. It was over the same period that the magnetic north pole shifted from Alaska into the Arctic. "
Are they telling us a 10% decrease would have a negligable effect on warming?
Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2004 1:03 am Posts: 24177 Location: Australia
i believe the poles reverse every few hundreds of thousands of years or so, and there is evidence to suggest that they are beginning to now, but this would take hundreds of years. we can't really know what the effect of this may be because we don't have a historical record of it. no point worrying about geomagnetic reversal when the effects of global warming are very real and immediate to us now and require action.
_________________ Oh, the flowers of indulgence and the weeds of yesteryear, Like criminals, they have choked the breath of conscience and good cheer. The sun beat down upon the steps of time to light the way To ease the pain of idleness and the memory of decay.
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 2:27 pm Posts: 1965 Location: 55344
LittleWing wrote:
Doesn't rock in the Oceans indicate that the poles of flip flopped on a number of occassions? The south pole became the north pole and such?
yes, the military mapped the whole ocean floor with magnetic sensors in the first half of the century (for submarines) and after they had their information they turned it over to geologists who suddenly had irrefutable proof of continental drift and that the polar field (geologically) routinely reverses itself. if you ever get a chance to look at any of those images, it is really amazing. my geology minor coming through finally...
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