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 Post subject: Chinese Police Open Fire on Protesters
PostPosted: Sat Dec 10, 2005 4:21 pm 
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http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/asiapcf/1 ... index.html
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BEIJING, China (AP) -- Residents of a southern Chinese village near Hong Kong where police opened fire on demonstrators described a tense standoff in the area on Saturday with thousands of armed troops patrolling the perimeter and blocking anyone from leaving.

Frightened villagers said they were either hunkering down at home or arguing with police who are refusing to return the dead to their families.

A Hong Kong newspaper quoted villagers accusing Chinese officials of trying to cover up the killings on Tuesday in Dongzhou, a village in Guangdong province.

Residents said police opened fire on a crowd of thousands protesting against inadequate compensation offered by the government for land to be used for a new wind power plant. Up to 20 were killed, villagers said, while some said dozens more were missing.

It was the deadliest known use of force by Chinese security against civilians since the killings around Tiananmen Square in 1989, which drew an international outcry. Although security forces often use tear gas and truncheons to disperse demonstrators, it is extremely rare for them to fire into a crowd -- as they did in putting down the Tiananmen pro-democracy demonstrations, where hundreds, and perhaps thousands, were killed.

The clash in Dongzhou also marked an escalation in social protests that have convulsed the Chinese countryside over land seizures for factories, power plants, shopping malls and other projects. Farmers often say they are paid too little and some accuse officials of stealing compensation money.

The Dongzhou confrontation is the latest trouble for Chinese officials who have come under international criticism recently for a chemical plant explosion that spilled toxins into a river flowing toward Russia.

Hong Kong's South China Morning Post newspaper on Saturday quoted Dongzhou villagers as saying authorities were trying to cover up the killings by offering families money to give up the bodies of the dead.

"They offered us a sum but said we would have to give up the body," an unidentified relative of one slain villager, 31-year-old Wei Jin, was quoted as saying. "We are not going to agree."

Hong Kong reverted to Chinese control in 1997, but the former British colony maintains a high degree of press freedom. Its proximity to Dongzhou gives local reporters good access to events there.

One woman in the village told The Associated Press by telephone that police were holding some bodies of dead protesters and refusing relatives' pleas to give them back.

Another villager, who identified himself only by his last name, Chong, said many of the victims' families had gone to a local police station seeking compensation for the deaths but had been turned backed by officers.

None of the villagers wanted to be identified, fearing official retaliation.

Villagers said they remained under siege, with authorities refusing to let anyone leave.

"Many police are surrounding the village today," said one woman, who refused to give her name for fear of official retaliation. "We are not permitted to leave the village."

On Friday, residents said troops armed with guns and shields were searching for the protest organizers.

Telephone calls to the local police station went unanswered.

Protests by farmers -- the ruling party's historical base -- are an extremely sensitive issue in China.

State media have not mentioned the incident in Dongzhou and both provincial and local governments have repeatedly refused to comment. This is typical in China, where the ruling Communist Party controls the media and lower-level authorities are leery of releasing information without permission from the central government.

The number of protests in China's vast, poverty-stricken countryside -- home to about 800 million people -- has risen in recent months as anger comes to a head over land seizures, corruption and a yawning wealth gap that experts say now threatens social stability.

The government says about 70,000 such confrontations between officials and rural residents occurred last year, although many more are believed to go unreported. The clashes also have become increasingly violent, with injuries sustained on both sides and huge amounts of damage done to property as protesters vent their frustration in face of indifferent or bullying authorities.

Alarmed by such conflicts, President Hu Jintao's government has made a priority of easing rural poverty, promising to spread prosperity to areas left behind by China's economic boom. But in many regions, families still get by on the equivalent of a few hundred dollars a year.

Dongzhou is on the outskirts of the city of Shanwei. Like many cities in China, Shanwei has cleared suburban land once used for farming to build industrial zones. State media have said the Shanwei Red Bay industrial zone is slated to have three electricity-generating plants -- a coal-fired plant, a wave power plant and a wind farm.

Shanwei already has a large wind farm on an offshore island, with 25 turbines. Another 24 are set for construction.

Earlier reports said the building of the $743 million coal-fired power plant, a major government-invested project for the province, also was disrupted by a dispute over land compensation.

Amnesty International said the growing number of disputes over land use across rural China, and the use of force to resolve them, suggest Chins urgently needs to develop effective channels for conflict resolution.

"These reports of protesters being shot dead are chilling," Catherine Baber, deputy Asia director at Amnesty International, said in a statement.

Amnesty spokeswoman Saria Rees-Roberts said Friday in London that although she did not want to compare Tuesday's clashes with Tiananmen Square, "police shooting people dead is unusual in China and it does demand an independent investigation."

A 14-year-old girl in Dongzhou said a local official visited on Friday and called the shootings "a misunderstanding."

"He said (he) hoped it would not become a big issue," the girl said by phone. "This is not a misunderstanding. I am afraid. I have not been to school in days," she added. "Come save us."

I guess Chinese police killing dissidents isn't exactly a shocker, but it's a reminder of just how backwards their government still is. I wonder how long they're going to put up with a free press in Hong Kong...

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Dec 10, 2005 4:58 pm 
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I read this earlier today.
I dunno what to say other than I'm not suprised by much anymore.


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 Post subject: Re: Chinese Police Open Fire on Protesters
PostPosted: Sat Dec 10, 2005 11:30 pm 
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bart d. wrote:
I guess Chinese police killing dissidents isn't exactly a shocker, but it's a reminder of just how backwards their government still is. I wonder how long they're going to put up with a free press in Hong Kong...

The Communists said there'll be no change for 50 years, from when they took over in 1997. The press has been free for the 8 years since. As time goes by, and as the democratic movement gathers strength, however...

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 Post subject: Re: Chinese Police Open Fire on Protesters
PostPosted: Mon Dec 12, 2005 3:05 am 
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Hinny as George Bailey wrote:
The Communists said there'll be no change for 50 years, from when they took over in 1997.......


Communists say a lot of things, but always end up killing their own citizens who dare question the glorious leaders. Something China knows all to well (Mao).

People always trash America about it's politics... but how long do you think Cindy Sheehan would have lasted in China?

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 Post subject: Re: Chinese Police Open Fire on Protesters
PostPosted: Mon Dec 12, 2005 3:55 am 
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broken_iris wrote:
Hinny as George Bailey wrote:
The Communists said there'll be no change for 50 years, from when they took over in 1997.......


Communists say a lot of things, but always end up killing their own citizens who dare question the glorious leaders. Something China knows all to well (Mao).

People always trash America about it's politics... but how long do you think Cindy Sheehan would have lasted in China?

When I said Communists, I of course meant the Chinese Communist Party, which is anything but communist.

Cindy Sheehan would've lasted a night before being kicked out of the country. They're quite lenient towards dissidents from another country- just deport them. Unless you meant if they had their own version of Cindy, which won't happen because China only has only 3 foreign policy issues: Taiwan, North Korea, and Japan. They have zero interest in invading or occupying anyone else.

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 Post subject: Re: Chinese Police Open Fire on Protesters
PostPosted: Mon Dec 12, 2005 4:32 am 
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Hinny as George Bailey wrote:

They have zero interest in invading or occupying anyone else.




Ever heard of Tibet? :roll:

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 Post subject: Re: Chinese Police Open Fire on Protesters
PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2005 5:16 am 
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broken_iris wrote:
Hinny as George Bailey wrote:
The Communists said there'll be no change for 50 years, from when they took over in 1997.......


Communists say a lot of things, but always end up killing their own citizens who dare question the glorious leaders. Something China knows all to well (Mao).

People always trash America about it's politics... but how long do you think Cindy Sheehan would have lasted in China?


Extremist right wing groups would say the same of the U.S. government. Remember Ruby Ridge or Waco? I think thats their rallying cry.

*note to LW* Although many extremist leftists groups feel oppressed by the U.S. government, the deaths of their members haven't been so spectacularly done at the hands of US law enforcement, and hence they cannot make the same claims, so please, don't accuse me of neglecting the left ;) */note*


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 Post subject: Re: Chinese Police Open Fire on Protesters
PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2005 8:19 am 
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broken_iris wrote:
Hinny as George Bailey wrote:

They have zero interest in invading or occupying anyone else.




Ever heard of Tibet? :roll:

Anyone ELSE.

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 Post subject: Re: Chinese Police Open Fire on Protesters
PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2005 8:31 am 
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Hinny as George Bailey wrote:
broken_iris wrote:
Hinny as George Bailey wrote:

They have zero interest in invading or occupying anyone else.




Ever heard of Tibet? :roll:

Anyone ELSE.


Taiwan

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 Post subject: Re: Chinese Police Open Fire on Protesters
PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2005 8:43 am 
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JimNasium wrote:
Taiwan

All talk. Not in either's side's interests. Won't happen. You can quote me on this.

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 Post subject: Re: Chinese Police Open Fire on Protesters
PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2005 8:54 am 
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Hinny as George Bailey wrote:
JimNasium wrote:
Taiwan

All talk. Not in either's side's interests. Won't happen. You can quote me on this.


Yeah, not when the US has an agreement to protect Taiwan if it happens. You can't tell me China has zero interest in occupying Taiwan

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 Post subject: Re: Chinese Police Open Fire on Protesters
PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2005 9:39 am 
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Hinny as George Bailey wrote:
broken_iris wrote:
Hinny as George Bailey wrote:

They have zero interest in invading or occupying anyone else.




Ever heard of Tibet? :roll:

Anyone ELSE.


So you buy the Chinese line of Tibet traditionally being part of greater China?


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 Post subject: Re: Chinese Police Open Fire on Protesters
PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2005 9:59 am 
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simple schoolboy wrote:
Hinny as George Bailey wrote:
Anyone ELSE.


So you buy the Chinese line of Tibet traditionally being part of greater China?

No. I was saying they occupy it already, so anywhere OUTSIDE of Tibet. Should've made myself clearer.

Occupation of the area started during the Yuan dynasty circa 1300, but the area has always been fairly autonomous up until the commies came in during the 1950s and we know what happened after that.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2005 2:56 pm 
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Is there some kind of revolutionary leader in China? If the communists are ever toppled, who will they put on their money?

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2005 3:10 pm 
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TomJoad187 wrote:
Is there some kind of revolutionary leader in China? If the communists are ever toppled, who will they put on their money?

They still love Mao, so if the current gov't was somehow overthrown (which, by the way, is about as likely as the US gov't being overthrown) they would probably still venerate him.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2005 3:41 pm 
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Hinney wrote:
Occupation of the area started during the Yuan dynasty circa 1300, but the area has always been fairly autonomous up until the commies came in during the 1950s and we know what happened after that.


Tibet is sooooo 50 years ago. Who cares now anyway?

Didn't China also occupy parts of Vietnam after WWII and the Vietnam war.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/12/04/AR2005120400982.html

Opinions on Mao are changing as capitalism spreads.


We can only hope the Muslims learn from this and "update" Islam.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2005 4:58 pm 
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Athletic Supporter wrote:
I dunno what to say other than I'm not suprised by much anymore.

Ditto. Sad but true.


Fucking commies.

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 Post subject: Re: Chinese Police Open Fire on Protesters
PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2005 7:30 pm 
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Hinny as George Bailey wrote:
simple schoolboy wrote:
Hinny as George Bailey wrote:
Anyone ELSE.


So you buy the Chinese line of Tibet traditionally being part of greater China?

No. I was saying they occupy it already, so anywhere OUTSIDE of Tibet. Should've made myself clearer.

Occupation of the area started during the Yuan dynasty circa 1300, but the area has always been fairly autonomous up until the commies came in during the 1950s and we know what happened after that.


Yeah, I was hoping thats what you meant, I was just scared for a second there. :wink:


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 Post subject: Re: Chinese Police Open Fire on Protesters
PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2005 11:57 pm 
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simple schoolboy wrote:
Yeah, I was hoping thats what you meant, I was just scared for a second there. :wink:

Heh, I highly doubt there's anyone here who knows more about Chinese history than moi. My family left Hong Kong after Tiannamen Square massacre, not wanting to have much to do with the Commies post 1997.

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